Namely, whether or not their abilities trigger if the ship is destroyed.

I don't think Dengar's ability triggers, but I think R5-P8 does.

FFG guys, I know you may see this, so that's why I posted it as a thread.

EDIT: Thread Tracers as well. Can I acquire a TL on the defending ship if some of my other ships are out of range?

i would imagine its covered in simultaneous fire, they can shoot at a dead-ship if they so choose to. and being that the triggers are yours to control and are the same time. you can Painbot trigger if it kills not shoot, or shoot to be overkill... If Painbot rolls a crit, and its the last ship on the board i would imagine you still take damage, and once again due to simultaneous fire, if you die thats game, if it brings you to half, thats half the ship.

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

which brings up its own question, does his ability count as the next opportunity to attack and thereby satisfy the crit allowing his main attack anyway?

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

which brings up its own question, does his ability count as the next opportunity to attack and thereby satisfy the crit allowing his main attack anyway?

Just 1 - his ability states that he gets to attack the ship that attacked him and then can't attack again this round.

"Once per round after defending, if the attacker is inside your firing arc, you may perform an attack against that ship." take from not another squad builder.

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

I don't think this is actually correct and you provide no supporting evidence. This is why I wish they had hit this in faq.

Nevermind. I was thinking the Ghost ability. Got thesae mixed up.

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

which brings up its own question, does his ability count as the next opportunity to attack and thereby satisfy the crit allowing his main attack anyway?

Just 1 - his ability states that he gets to attack the ship that attacked him and then can't attack again this round.

That's incorrect. The 'once per round' in the text means, that he can activate the counterattack ability only once per round. He can still perform his regular attack.

Once per round you get to attack if they are in arc but you also get your normal attack this round.

What the wording does is prevent you from shooting back twice at a ship that TLT'd you or used Cluster Missiles.

His ability provides 1 attack against an attacked that is in your arc and he gets 1 attack unless he has blinded pilot crit.

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

which brings up its own question, does his ability count as the next opportunity to attack and thereby satisfy the crit allowing his main attack anyway?

Just 1 - his ability states that he gets to attack the ship that attacked him and then can't attack again this round.

That's incorrect. The 'once per round' in the text means, that he can activate the counterattack ability only once per round. He can still perform his regular attack.

I was mixing Dengar up with the ghost and the phantom title ability. i realized after I posted - lol.

The real question being 'soontir with initiative kills dengar, does dengar get 2 shots back because of simultaneous fire or just 1?' or more specifically 'does dengar's pilot ability count as his opportunity to attack for simultaneous fire'

it would be two shots. his ability plus his actual combat phase activation.. He gets that regardless as long as he doesnt get blinded pilot crit.

which brings up its own question, does his ability count as the next opportunity to attack and thereby satisfy the crit allowing his main attack anyway?

Just 1 - his ability states that he gets to attack the ship that attacked him and then can't attack again this round.

That's incorrect. The 'once per round' in the text means, that he can activate the counterattack ability only once per round. He can still perform his regular attack.

I was mixing Dengar up with the ghost and the phantom title ability. i realized after I posted - lol.

or you may have also gotten that in your thought because a while back there was a forum post about Dengar with Gunner, and i would imagine if he triggers gunner off of his ability before he shoots then yes, hes most certainly NOT going to shoot his primary.

So, more interesting question. If dengar is destroyed by PS10 anything, does he get to shoot back? My guess is no, his ship is no longer there to take it but at the same time Corran gets his shot in the end step if he's destroyed in the end step.

So, more interesting question. If dengar is destroyed by PS10 anything, does he get to shoot back? My guess is no, his ship is no longer there to take it but at the same time Corran gets his shot in the end step if he's destroyed in the end step.

He does not shoot back if he is destroyed by a higher PS ship. The only time he shoots back if a pilot with the same PS with initiative destroys him. In this case the simultaneous attack rule keeps him in play, and he can activate his ability (and R5-P8), and then performs his regular attack.

So, more interesting question. If dengar is destroyed by PS10 anything, does he get to shoot back? My guess is no, his ship is no longer there to take it but at the same time Corran gets his shot in the end step if he's destroyed in the end step.

Ninja;'d

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

1 - His ability states that he can attack a ship that he defended against as long as they are in arc. This would be ruled buy the fact that this would be put into place while defending meaning this continues on even though he was destroyed and is a bonus attack. - card ability rule and this attack does not count as your normal attack during the combat phase

2 - Normal combat phase rules state that if you are destroyed by the same pilot skill and haven't yet attacked, you may perform your attack prior to removing your ship from the playing field. Since the other attack was a bonus attack and not your combat phase attack, you should still be allowed to perform your combat phase attack prior to removing the ship from the playing field.

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

I see your point. You may be right, is there any precedent for similar situation?

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

1 - His ability states that he can attack a ship that he defended against as long as they are in arc. This would be ruled buy the fact that this would be put into place while defending meaning this continues on even though he was destroyed and is a bonus attack. - card ability rule and this attack does not count as your normal attack during the combat phase

2 - Normal combat phase rules state that if you are destroyed by the same pilot skill and haven't yet attacked, you may perform your attack prior to removing your ship from the playing field. Since the other attack was a bonus attack and not your combat phase attack, you should still be allowed to perform your combat phase attack prior to removing the ship from the playing field.

Exactly. The original context of "opportunity to attack" must be considered. Dengar's pilot ability is a completely separate matter. We debated this same point in the rules forum.

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

I see your point. You may be right, is there any precedent for similar situation?

This is a new scenario.

I think you can look at this similarly to how TLT works.

If a ship with TLT gets killed by the same PS opponent, it still gets to use its tlt attack which is 2 separate attacks against the same target. 1 of Dengar's attacks is due to his card ability and is a bonus attack. He should still resolve his normal combat phase attack due to simultaneous attack rules.

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

Dengar gets his bonus pilot ability attack because it is his pilot ability. His normal opportunity to attack via the simultaneous attack rule is the trigger for removing him from the table. That's the original and correct context of the rule.

For example, would Poe not get to use his focus ability under the simultaneous attack rule? Would Han not get a reroll under the simultaneous attack rule? Of course they would because it is their pilot ability. So Dengar gets to use his pilot ability too, just like everybody else who is an ace. :-)

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

Dengar gets his bonus pilot ability attack because it is his pilot ability. His normal opportunity to attack via the simultaneous attack rule is the trigger for removing him from the table. That's the original and correct context of the rule.

For example, would Poe not get to use his focus ability under the simultaneous attack rule? Would Han not get a reroll under the simultaneous attack rule? Of course they would because it is their pilot ability. So Dengar gets to use his pilot ability too, just like everybody else who is an ace. :-)

We all agree that Dengar gets to use his pilot ability.

The rule says: "After it has had its opportunity to attack, it is destroyed and removed from the play area".

The question is: does the attack from his pilot ability count as his "opportunity to attack"? Or does that term specifically mean his regular attack? The answer is not clear for me.

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

Dengar gets his bonus pilot ability attack because it is his pilot ability. His normal opportunity to attack via the simultaneous attack rule is the trigger for removing him from the table. That's the original and correct context of the rule.

For example, would Poe not get to use his focus ability under the simultaneous attack rule? Would Han not get a reroll under the simultaneous attack rule? Of course they would because it is their pilot ability. So Dengar gets to use his pilot ability too, just like everybody else who is an ace. :-)

We all agree that Dengar gets to use his pilot ability.

The rule says: "After it has had its opportunity to attack, it is destroyed and removed from the play area".

The question is: does the attack from his pilot ability count as his "opportunity to attack"? Or does that term specifically mean his regular attack? The answer is not clear for me.

It means their regular attack because the rule existed long before Dengar (the first pilot with this ability to retaliate).

and then performs his regular attack.

I'm still looking for anyone saying this to give a rules backed reason WHY he gets a normal attack too under simultaneous fire. What makes his counterattack NOT an 'opportunity to attack'? Also if you argue he gets his counter+normal I hope you also play that his counterattack doesn't flip blinded pilot since that and simultaneous fire share the 'opportunity to attack' clause.

Dengar gets his bonus pilot ability attack because it is his pilot ability. His normal opportunity to attack via the simultaneous attack rule is the trigger for removing him from the table. That's the original and correct context of the rule.

For example, would Poe not get to use his focus ability under the simultaneous attack rule? Would Han not get a reroll under the simultaneous attack rule? Of course they would because it is their pilot ability. So Dengar gets to use his pilot ability too, just like everybody else who is an ace. :-)

We all agree that Dengar gets to use his pilot ability.

The rule says: "After it has had its opportunity to attack, it is destroyed and removed from the play area".

The question is: does the attack from his pilot ability count as his "opportunity to attack"? Or does that term specifically mean his regular attack? The answer is not clear for me.

It means their regular attack because the rule existed long before Dengar (the first pilot with this ability to retaliate).

Exactly, don't punish the one flying the Punishing One just because he's u-nique. Payback is his pilot ability, not his opportunity to attack. Jumping to the conclusion that his pilot ability triggers a new interpretation of the original rules is a trap. Moreover, nerfing only his pilot ability would be setting a very scummy precedent...

Does Whisper get to re-cloak if she shoots Dengar? Where's the deliniation between After Attacking and After Defending?