The problem with the Empire now is that it's mainly focused on high agility, low HP ships (whether they are aces or cheap swarm ships). While both Scum and Rebels get new, different toys in Wave 8, Empire gets more arc dodger/swarm variety. It's becoming kind of a one-trick pony (granted, the "one trick" is actully a number of different ships, but still, it's a low HP-high Agi pony) more than the other factions.

The only thing that might be nice would be more HP on non-large ships. No matter how good your pilots are, or how manuverable, sometimes you need more than 10 health on the board.

Rebels got Jan to give red dice

If you consider Jan a viable option for Rebels, there are TONS of things available to the Empire.

The only thing that might be nice would be more HP on non-large ships. No matter how good your pilots are, or how manuverable, sometimes you need more than 10 health on the board.

TIE/D, x1, x7 and even SA bring all easily more than 10 health to the board. Oh and the TIE/IT with its 3 shields and 6 hull. ;-)

I think the only thing the Empire is missing is a heavy fighter role atm. Granted it HAS the defender, but the Defender isn't fixed YET. Once Imperial Veterans goes live I think the Empire will be much more well rounded.

STIL - They do have a ton of options. The OP says they have only 3 options, and lists one of those options as "3 aces"... but that can be a pretty different setup of aces. Could be Palp aces, or could be Phantoms, triple interceptors, I mean there are a lot of options right now. And Swarms have a TON of new options as well. The Empire is REALLY good with it's aces, so the triple aces list idea is really more like a starting point rather than a single list.

Example: Aces in rebels: it can be agile arcdodging Jake, it can be durable and pretty agile Poe, it can be straightforward miranda it can be all around Corran.

Aces in Empire: agile arcdodging Fel, agile arcdodging Vader, agile arcdodging Jax, agile arcdodging Phantom. Only omega plays a bit, but only a bit different.

See my point? 3aces in empire are just variants of only 1 ship type - agile but not durable.

The only thing that might be nice would be more HP on non-large ships. No matter how good your pilots are, or how manuverable, sometimes you need more than 10 health on the board.

The problem with the Empire now is that it's mainly focused on high agility, low HP ships (whether they are aces or cheap swarm ships). While both Scum and Rebels get new, different toys in Wave 8, Empire gets more arc dodger/swarm variety. It's becoming kind of a one-trick pony (granted, the "one trick" is actully a number of different ships, but still, it's a low HP-high Agi pony) more than the other factions.

^

That and that. I see im not alone in my pov.

Rebels got Jan to give red dice

If you consider Jan a viable option for Rebels, there are TONS of things available to the Empire.

Well, marginally but i have seen some lists around some heavy hitting warheads supported by Jan. With ordnance revolution around the corner i guess we will see even more of her.

While same time rebels or scums will politely look down from Mount 20+HP

The Empire has Darth Vader. Nuff said.

I question the idea that Fel is not durable, he's one of the hardest ships in the game to even hit, and that's if you DO have him in arc. If durability is a measure of how many attacks you can soak before dying Fel beats out the vast majority of the Imperial list, and probably beats basically anyone who's not a regenner, when he's well flown.

When he's badly flown he folds like a wet dishrag, but that's the Empire for you.

what the hell is "EVERYTHING"? cause it sure as hell ain't the game's namesake unless you're flying poe

e-wings are also hellishly limited to one star pilot, and it's not at all nimble unless you bring it up to 50ish points with the inclusion of EU.

ditto astromechs. There are 2 popularly useful ones, ie r2d2 and r3-a2 (always on a Y). and 2 complete corner cases in r4d6 (biggs) and r5p9 (poe). Not a whole lot of variety theredi

double ditto turrets, which is just turret which is just TLT because the other turrets suck (hopefully ghost will make autoblaster good with its large area coverage)

also until sabine comes out, the empire is superior with bombs

that and literally every SC here has been won by empire, including the above list. Before that, there were 3 palp ace champions. After that, one crackswarm champion.

The imps don't really lack options, but it somewhat appears that way since they have a lot of ships that fill the same general role. Soontir, Whisper, Vader, Inquisitor all kind of fill the same role but do it all a bit different.

Now, those pilots are maybe the only pilots you see of that ship type but this is better than Rebels who have Poe, stressbot all the time and only the 3rd ship (or combination of 2) is variable.

Also, guidance chips breathes life into 2 of their ships in a big way and course the imp veterans will be huge for the Defender.

If you mean the Empire lacks support options, the Lambda is one and the TIE shuttle provides a similar service for a much lower price. The Fleet Officer TIE shuttle is a much better focus passer than Kyle's pricey HWK.

Competitively we don't, but all of our comp. options are very similar.

Like the other factions we have dud ships, but there's a glorious time ahead with Wave 8 & Imp. Veterans.

If you mean the Empire lacks support options, the Lambda is one and the TIE shuttle provides a similar service for a much lower price. The Fleet Officer TIE shuttle is a much better focus passer than Kyle's pricey HWK.

And Fleet Officer isn't unique either! In Epic games that crew card goes on every ship it can.

Hmm, actually, that makes me think about a Lambda with EI, Waffles, and two Fleet Officers. Hand out four focus a turn, every turn (then die after the third turn)...

Wait, no, can't do the same action more than once, and I presume a second instance of the same card counts as the same action from that perspective.

I question the idea that Fel is not durable, he's one of the hardest ships in the game to even hit, and that's if you DO have him in arc. If durability is a measure of how many attacks you can soak before dying Fel beats out the vast majority of the Imperial list, and probably beats basically anyone who's not a regenner, when he's well flown.

When he's badly flown he folds like a wet dishrag, but that's the Empire for you.

I think he's asking if there is anything good for the Empire besides Palp aces.

^THAT

I dont say Empire is lacking! They got superb options. All they options just feel so...similar to each other.

Just because you don't see other options doesn't mean that there aren't other options out there. Even if Imperials have a lot of similar ships, they are all a little different, have different unique pilots, or even different ways to fly them. You can look at which Imperial lists place in top slots and see it's all about the same, but actually look at all the lists that have even entered. There just isn't much variety in Imperial builds being brought to tournaments these days.

Is that because the only good options are those? I don' think think so. It's either the new toy aspect of the Emperor or the ability of Imperial players to only take what others have won with at top tables instead of developing their own lists. As I stated before and below, there are a few people placing in top tables with Tie Defenders before the fix. It's more than just one or two that have won events with them. There are also other builds to play than just 3 aces. What about heavy hitter and mini swarm? Or a slew of mid tier pilots that are good? These are options that people can take, but no one is bothering. I say it's not because they aren't worth it, but I say it's because people are too short sighted.

What ever happened to the Buzzsaw Shuttle or Doom Shuttle? Are they bad options now? I don't think so. TLT's take a while to blast through them. Doom Shuttle can still hurt those agile enemies that regen shields. You just don't see them as they are old school and people want to fly new.

How many Empire lists are actually attempted that don't have Darth Vader or Soontir Fel in them at all?

I think the only thing the Empire is missing is a heavy fighter role atm. Granted it HAS the defender, but the Defender isn't fixed YET. Once Imperial Veterans goes live I think the Empire will be much more well rounded.

There are people who are placing in top 4 of SC with Tie Defenders, and this is BEFORE the fix. You can't say that they are terrible. I think people just underestimated them and a few people really figured them out. Of course, they will get even better now. We will soon see threads about how broken they are.

Well the Empire does have yorr.

No other faction has a pilot that can take stress away from friends up to range 2.

Tactician builds, stressbot/hogs don't work well against yorr.

While you mostly see Omnicron more because of palmobile. If you can spare the couple of pts upgrading to yorr can make the world of difference if you suspect you will run into a few stress builds

Just last weekend yorr kept whisper from getting double stressed by a stressbot in a tournament.

Plus he takes the stress right away, not at end or movement, or start of combat, so fel, or whisper can do a kturn and still have their actions.

No other faction can so that.

I've also flown tie bombers with Tactician, Rebel captive, fleet officer and Mara jade to really good effect.

Escorting a tractor beam vessery

While I don't know if this be competitive it worked well, and again something neither faction can do.

Cheap crew carrier.

Plus it was nice fly something different away from the norm I guess.

Especially for the Empire

Unfortunately I don't think ordnance is going to become a big hit like some think, but the shuttle title for the bomber will hopefully let it see the table more.

I want to see a bomber win a tournament

The defender is going to see the table a lot more and again it has something no other faction has, the white kturn (I guess Ello asty kind of does)

I think the Empire has pretty well the same amount of options and decent counters to what's out there.

(of coarse that's including unreleased material)

They have cheap crew carrier.

The shuttle imo is still one of the best ships in the game 21 pts for 10 hp, and 3 attack dice.

No faction has a ship that cheap with that much hp.

The Empire has really good aces.

The tie fighters are great sponges, and blockers.

Tie bombers after the veteran pack will hopefully see more table.

They can be quite tanky in their own right, only problem is right now they require pt investment to be really good, but that'll change soon.

Imo really I just want to see the Imperial Firespray get some love.

Yes I know some believe it belongs with the scum, but that doesn't change the fact that the Imperial version is highly lacking, and it's still a ship that is an option for the Empire

Imperial issue is that the devs keep giving the other factions our trick but we never get anything back.

hmm what about a 360 turret? Didnt rebels give the deci that one?

what about the FO sloop? pretty sure that came from the scum

literally took 3 seconds to think of two examples, there are obviously more.

I don't see what other factions take imperial tricks

is arc-doding an imperial trick? if so, only Jake does it with the same gusto as soontir and he's got a piddly 2 dice unless he invests in prockets

it's something I noticed when I resolved to bring conners to the SC two weeks ago. my options were either Deathrain or ASLAM warden, and Deathrain won out because of what else I could bring with him

see, Imperials have Vader (35) and Omega L (26) which are uniquely capable of smashing through aces with their high damage attacks. Hell, even TC soontir (34) would've fit the bill

what do rebels have at that bracket? integrated poe? (only one focus --> hit for mods). 33 points of PTL VI prockets Jake (only 1 powerful attack)? freaking 42+ points corran?

even a personal favorite of fine, bb8 ptl asty, runs 35-37 points for a PS 7 (though he can hit hard if you go full mods). The only pilot that can hold a candle to Vader was ptl BB8 Wedge (34), but Vader was simply a much safer bet due to PS 11 and far greater manueverability

the empire has the decided offense edge in its aces (See also whisper), and even its crappy little filler ships (Omega L). For example, where else can you find 15 points for crackshot? Nowhere

1.) There is plenty of variety among Imperial lists. And even if you accept that Empire has a lack of options, the options they do have are A+.

2.) The alleged lack of variety among Imperial players is precisely because of Acewing ships, chief among them Soontir. If I didn't have to face Soontir in every other squad, maybe I could run quad AC Tempest or a swarm of TIEs. So it's precisely because of Imperial players that there is no variety among Imperial lists.

Imperials have a lot of variety and good options within certain archetypes. Rebels can field more archetypes but they are not as deep with choice within those archetypes whereas something like 'palp aces' has a plethora of builds as do archetypes of imperial swarm, imperial Miniswarm, and 3 aces.

Oh look, yet another Imperial player whining about how disadvantaged their faction is. Sheesh, Imperial players are the worst. Always so darn entitled with a victim mentality.


To answer the OP's questions: Yes, you are mistaken and are just being biased and subjective. Imperials do have a ton of amazing and interesting and powerful options on par with the sorts of the things you noted from other factions. For one, you complain the Rebels have Fat Turrets, even though the Imps have their own fat turret in the Decimator, and unlike the YTs, the Deci is still seeing successful play in the top of the meta right now (thanks to Palps and because they pay for brute health, not agility, and are thus more insulated from TLT).

Want to cancel all of the opponent's green tokens? Jax. Want to add a crit or evade to any roll? Palpatine. Want to make your ships immune to stress? Yorr. Want to cloak? Phantoms. Want the most cost-efficient ship in the game? Fel+PtL. Want to do direct auto-damage? Oicunn, Vader (crew), Wampa, and Ruthlessness. Want the best cheap blocker in the game with 1-Hard turns and Barrel Rolls? Academy Pilot. Want white K-Turns? Defenders. Want to drop bombs in front of you? Deathrain. Want to give rerolls to your entire fleet? Howlrunner/Jonus. Want to shoot ordnance at any range? Rhymer. Want to deny your opponents all of their dice modding? Darth Curse and Omega Leader. Want to deny your opponent Range 1 bonus dice? Zertik. Want cheap EPT spam? Black Squadron Pilots. et cetera


As a plea to Imperial Players, please get rid of your persecution complexes. Imperials have a ton of fun, interesting stuff. Even at the top-tier competitive level, Imps are winning with Fel, Jax, Vader, Whisper, Omega Leader, Howlrunner, Wampa, Black Squadron Pilots, Academy Pilots, Decimators (generic, Oicunn, Kenkirk, and Chiraeneau) , and Lambdas (generic and Yorr). That's a ton of variability, far more than the Rebs or S&V have right now in their most competitive lists. And outside of the generic net-decking narrowsightedness, there are a ton of other good and fun Imperial options. Open your eyes and your mind.

I really hope imperials don't get any more turrets In the future. Maneuverability is what drew me too the faction in the first place ,and I hope it remains the main imperial advantage.

And if you personally think imperials are lacking, just play rebels or scum. Not every factions play style is for everybody.

and Deathrain!

Oh look, yet another Imperial player whining about how disadvantaged their faction is. Sheesh, Imperial players are the worst. Always so darn entitled with a victim mentality.

I see it as more a plea for help as opposed to whining. To respond as if they are whining only invites negative responses and eventually a thread getting shut down. Considering it as a plea for help to see an alternative has better outcomes. Maybe they fly something different and maybe some other people read it and also fly something different.

Also, I recall a lot of Rebel players doing the same back in Wave 1 when Tie Swarm was king.

Oh look, yet another Imperial player whining about how disadvantaged their faction is. Sheesh, Imperial players are the worst. Always so darn entitled with a victim mentality.

Oh look, yet another forum user that assumed whining without reading whole thread and all of the OP posts.

It weren't whining in any place. In fact if you would bother to read my posts i said myself that empire got superb options. I was only asking if anyone else thinks all empire options and lists are similar to each other. Why on earth when there is topic like that every assumes OP is talking about power level and such. Plus it was not whining "weee i got only 3hp and volley of 4 bwing kills me", i were just loose thoughts about empire lists beeing just variations of themselves.

Empire power level is off the charts, period.

Empire variety...that in my opinion is different story.

p.s. I'm rebel player mostly , so 5 red blanks on your side here.