There are a LOT of scheduled events, so no way to know if they'll be at this one, but FWIW, BGG is livestreaming from GAMA tomorrow:
http://livestream.com/boardgamegeektv/events/4999155
...might be worth following, if nobody else shows up with a stream more specifically FFG focused.
They'll be there. X-Wing is one of the most popular games of the last several years, there's no way they'd miss a chance to report on big news for probably the most popular games they feature.
tommorow? But that's today!!
Maybe there'll be an apology for the fustercluck that was the tournament regs document.
I think that will be a quick update.
Already been One.
Its V_102 now
I can find no changes in v1.02, and no pink text.
They changed the error in the setup (no item for objectives and first player getting first obstacle), but a number of the other errors remain.
We should make bets about which version it'll be before they fixed all the nonsense from 1.0, before they start doing actual changes from what they intended.
Edited by Mikael Hasselsteintommorow? But that's today!!
Interesting
Brick and mortar = more valuable to end user = better price from Asmodee
I.e. the exact opposite of GW
Edited by Green KnightYeah and Tony actually says that these games are Luxury Items and they need to be paid for in grand full price style.
Also it is very clearly understated that: you will no longer be able to buy a dozen games cheap cheap cheap and toss them on your dirt pile of unplayed junk product... you scummy pack-rat-nerds you.
**** Tony-Tone!
Tony came up in that joint like DARTH VADER... and such.
https://youtu.be/WEZLeI1Ykng?t=11934
I love it!
This is just price fixing, plain and simple.
Markets evolve, and the way we shop is evolving, but these guys don't want this to change, he doesn't get to tell us we should be paying over the odds, and we should enjoy the fact we are doing so, because a board game is a luxury item, a yacht is a luxury item, a sports car is a luxury item, a $15,000 Breitling is a luxury item.
This is a toy game, a hobby, entertainment.
A shop can do more to be competitive, but they do not because usually they are the only game in town, so they get to charge what they like, because no competition, now we have a choice, what do they do? we're going to impose legislation to remove that competition, and tell us it's for our own benefit...amazing.
Maybe there'll be an apology for the fustercluck that was the tournament regs document.
I think that will be a quick update.
Already been One.
Its V_102 now
I can find no changes in v1.02, and no pink text.
Take a look in the topic specifically about the new Tournament regulation. It has information about what they changed, and what they didn't.
https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/205576-new-tournament-regulations-document/
This is just price fixing, plain and simple.
Markets evolve, and the way we shop is evolving, but these guys don't want this to change, he doesn't get to tell us we should be paying over the odds, and we should enjoy the fact we are doing so, because a board game is a luxury item, a yacht is a luxury item, a sports car is a luxury item, a $15,000 Breitling is a luxury item.
This is a toy game, a hobby, entertainment.
A shop can do more to be competitive, but they do not because usually they are the only game in town, so they get to charge what they like, because no competition, now we have a choice, what do they do? we're going to impose legislation to remove that competition, and tell us it's for our own benefit...amazing.
I've got to agree, I feel like they view it as protecting the value of their brand, but here is what's going to happen, people are going to pick one game and stick with and won't branch out to others.
For example, I started out with X-Wing. I found the core set online and picked it up and played it with my brother and my wife. My brother and I loved it, so I bought a few expansions from B&N, and that made the game even more fun. Then I found a LGS, and bought some more stuff there and met the community. My buys were limited though because $15-$30 a ship is sort of pricey. Then somebody told me about Miniatures Market, and I've bought the bulk of my stuff from them. MM also got me into Imperial Assault entirely because they had a sale on the core set that brought it down to almost half of retail. Now I own every expansion and play that competitively. I never even would've bought the game without the MM deal of the day. Armada is similar. I bought the core set from them, loved the game, and have bought all of the expansions and gotten heavily involved in the local community for it.
Without these discount online retailers, I wouldn't have 2 out of 3 of the games. I also wouldn't buy in the volume I do (in X-Wing, I buy enough ships of each wave to run a squadron of just them, typically 3-5 of each ship). I'll be more selective and only buy what I need for a specific build. In other words, I'm going to spend significantly less.
I also buy from my LGS and Local Comic Stores (LCS?). At my LGS where I typically play I spend approximately $40 every time I go in. But that volume of purchasing is going to go down, because as I buy less product online, I've got less of a reason to go to the store to play.
I don't disagree that this is a luxury item in a sense, but you know what else is? Every other hobby I have. My Xbox and PS4 are luxury items. Steam games are luxury items. Money for these things is scarce, as it's the last thing money is spent on. If tabletop gaming gets significantly more expensive next to my other hobbies, tabletop gaming is going to take a hit.
I also see the GW comparison a lot, and to be honest FFG had better hope that's not where they're headed. I've been tabletop gaming a short time, only about 3 years, and in that time I've never seen a game of Warhammer played. I'm aware it exists, but I couldn't name one person who plays it. On the other hand, I know approximately 40+ people who actively play X-Wing, 15+ playing Armada, 20+ playing IA. It may be different in other parts of the country, but if you choke off the players, the player base will become more hardcore, unfortunately it may also shrink to the point of being irrelevant.
This is just price fixing, plain and simple.
Markets evolve, and the way we shop is evolving, but these guys don't want this to change, he doesn't get to tell us we should be paying over the odds, and we should enjoy the fact we are doing so, because a board game is a luxury item, a yacht is a luxury item, a sports car is a luxury item, a $15,000 Breitling is a luxury item.
This is a toy game, a hobby, entertainment.
A shop can do more to be competitive, but they do not because usually they are the only game in town, so they get to charge what they like, because no competition, now we have a choice, what do they do? we're going to impose legislation to remove that competition, and tell us it's for our own benefit...amazing.
First, let's get our definitions correct please.
This is not price fixing. FFG is not colluding with other gaming producers to lock up their market at high prices and contravene the forces of supply and demand. A single seller choosing to alter the terms on which they sell their product is, unless that seller is in and of itself a monopoly that dominates an entire market (and FFG is far from a gaming monopoly), cannot be price fixing. This require collusion between producers / sellers of similar goods, which is not the case here. Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, etc. all getting together to say "we won't sell cars for less than $30k" is price fixing. Toyota deciding, on their own, that they are going to sell direct online at a higher price than they sell to dealers is not price fixing.
Second, the arguments about the evolution of shopping are precisely why FFG is taking this action. It comes down to a question of "what is your product?"
So which do you believe it is?
Personally, as someone who runs a relatively sizable business, I would be doing the same thing as FFG. Games definitely have a network effect (the more people who play, the more people who will play), and if FFG has internal metrics showing that the tournament scene and gaming stores increase their long-term sales, they should be cutting out the online discounters as those guys are sacrificing long-term viability in favor of short-term gains (something, ironically, people often decry when businesses/investors do in other contexts...) for any of the games where you need a community around them to play. I don't necessarily feel the same way about pure-play boardgames (e.g. Android the boxed game), but for things like X-Wing, Armada, and LCGs, I suspect this is a net profit increasing move for FFG and a net community size increasing move for all of us. The losers here, however, will be those who don't have a FLGS (or only have crap ones), and thus derived no value in the second case above and thus would prefer the first option.
If the core set was slightly cheaper I can see people rationalizing why going to CSI or MM could be detrimental. Frankly I think the core set's initial price point as off putting...but when you look at the expansions...and factor in shipping/time the store's price seems much more reasonable.
I an in the camp of MM and CSI being told to bugger off with their down right bargain basement prices...it will out right kill stores desire to stock the game if people are simply side stepping them for a cheaper online deal.
So only boring price policy news but nothing about wave 3?
So only boring price policy news but nothing about wave 3?
That was yesterday. Around noon, FFG is doing a Star Wars panel. Hopefully get good news then.
So only boring price policy news but nothing about wave 3?
That was yesterday. Around noon, FFG is doing a Star Wars panel. Hopefully get good news then.
Got any ETA? I'm in Europe and very little skilled in time zones.
Another way you could put that is:
If you care that many of your customers are social gamers who only play with friends or family, then FFG should embrace online retailers as a quick and efficient means to get their games to those gamers at home.
However, if you only care about competitive players coming out to local game stores, paying for entry fees and picking up spur of the moment merchandise, then forget those other people. Gotta keep those local stores afloat, that caters to one set of customers while messing over their other customers and telling them it's for their own good.
Yeah, it's what's best for FFG, but they don't need to pee on our legs and tell us it's for our health.
Edited by admiralcrunchThat was yesterday. Around noon, FFG is doing a Star Wars panel. Hopefully get good news then.So only boring price policy news but nothing about wave 3?
Got any ETA? I'm in Europe and very little skilled in time zones.
I believe.
It will be around 3:00 PM East Coast time.
Edited by admiralcrunchI checked the schedule again. The panel is from 11:00-12:00 PDT
That is 2:00-3:00 EDT
Which would be 6:00-7:00PM in England
FYI: we are on Daylight Savings Time here in the US, which puts us an hour ahead of Standard Time. Please factor that in if you need to.
Edited by admiralcrunchAdmiral, you may want to edit that up a bit.
I do see what you are saying though. As a social gamer myself, who very rarely gets out to tournaments and in no way relies on an LGS, I feel you. I have a weekly armada night at my apartment and thats where I do my gaming, and I supply all the ships and equipment.
Its important to understand though, as a social gamer, that the competetive scene requires those LGS' that the online distribution is hurting. And that competetive scene is integral to the long term health of the game. So in a way, it is to the benefit of the social gamer for the gaming industry to take steps to protect those LGS' and the competetive gaming crowd that relies on them. So while it does suck that we will be paying more for our plasticrack to support a scene we do not partake of, it is naive to believe that its success is not to our benefit.
Edited by MadaghmireIt's likely just a money grab. And sadly means that I'll have to chose what games I continue to buy into vs what ones lose to potential price hikes. (Pessimistic view)
I mean if they do it correctly, prices shouldn't increase. Simply that $19.99 MSRP Neb B probably shouldn't be available for under $10. But honestly, they'll likely up all prices and use this as cover.
I mean, presumably they then wont also increase MSRP.
Also, FFG doesn't, as I understand it, make any more money from this. They sell through their distributors at the same price. They are simply mandating that the online retailers charge a certain amount when they then sell to you. It should simply increase those online retailers margin on each individual unit, while reducing their volume.
If I'm wrong, someone more informed will be along to correct me presently, I'm sure.
I mean, presumably they then wont also increase MSRP.
Also, FFG doesn't, as I understand it, make any more money from this. They sell through their distributors at the same price. They are simply mandating that the online retailers charge a certain amount when they then sell to you. It should simply increase those online retailers margin on each individual unit, while reducing their volume.
If I'm wrong, someone more informed will be along to correct me presently, I'm sure.
According to that Video Asmodee is going to adjust the prices it sells to the two kinds of retailers at, so yes it is going to make more money. Bricks gets a bigger discount than Online, read charged what they get charged now, and Online will be charged a higher price.
And I dunno what else I am supposed to call it when they make retailers sign an agreement,to sell at the price they say in the manner they dictate, or else they cannot legally stock any of their products for sale, sure we can argue semantics about this stifling price competition in our evolving market places, but that is the bottom line here, dressed up in fancy high morally sounding ideals and words they are fixing the prices and the way them items can be sold.
It's not enough to make a fortune on cardboard and plastic, now they get to dictate to us how we spend, when we spend, and we should be **** fortunate they are allowing us too! luxury items my ass, you want to sell me a set with all the markers and tokens made in precious metals or gem stones I'll happily give it pride of place as a luxury game I purchased, display it as such, and cherish it, to boot. Otherwise games live as long as they keep my interest, then they get sold, thrown out or given away, just like all my other "toy games" do.
Edited by TheEasternKingTo grow a game, FFG needs local gaming groups that run tournaments. Why? Because knowing you have people you can play against helps keep people playing. Having people playing in a local shop where it's visible helps draw in new players. Without something like that, the game will fade away. So how do they make sure there are games going on at local shops?
Well, the local shops need to make sure they can make money. If they can't, there's no incentive for them to run games there. Games take space and time, both of which cost them money. So they need to know that the players will buy the game itself at their store in order to make back the money they would otherwise lose by running the games. If players are buying all their gaming materials on-line then showing up to play at the store, all the store does is lose money.
Now here's the rub: it's not possible for a brick and mortar store to match the lower prices of the online shops if they're both paying the same amount to get the product from the distributors. On-line stores don't need to have space for tables (more space = higher rent). They don't need to keep as many employees (more employees = more payroll costs). They don't even need to maintain as much inventory, because they can buy based on their sales. Brick and Mortar stores have to keep inventory on the shelves where people will see them (more inventory means more money paid out that doesn't translate to money made until it is sold; plus it means more space to store that inventory. Again, more space = higher rent). Simply put, there are far more overhead costs for the brick and mortar stores than there are for the on-line stores.
So, if on-line stores are always going to undercut the brick and mortar stores, it might not be worthwhile for the brick and mortar store to run events. Or even carry the product at all. No events, and the game dies.
So FFG has a powerful incentive to balance the cost equation for the brick and mortar stores so they have a chance to compete on even ground with the on-line retailers. Essentially, FFG is compensating the brick and mortar stores for running events that act as an extension of their marketing.
