Hi all

this is a "follow-up" topic from here : we started a little discussion about what's the difference between Move and Bind; however, while that was a little out of topic, i'd liked more to create a new topic...

What exactly are you asking?

The powers definitely overlap in a narrative sense, as both call for on telekinetic powers. Mechanically, they function differently, with Move being a utility (that can be weaponized), while Bind is a weapon only.

Perhaps you're talking about the interpretation of using Move to hold down a target?

I think it's a different tool for a different job. If I want to be able to shut down a situation without any violence then Bind is the only way to do it, it's the power a Guardian may get a lot more use out of. If I was building an Enforcer that likes to question suspects then Bind is the power to use.

The other big thing Bind has is it's invisible, you can injure someone from a distance in a crowd, or kill a speaker in front of thousands of onlookers and people will hardly notice a thing (assuming no one in the crowd is force sensitive). Move in that situation would be much more obvious... much much more obvious. And that's one of the biggest limiting factors for Move, it's obvious someone has done something unnatural, used the Force.

while Bind is a weapon only.

while Bind is a weapon only.

Only true if you use any Darkside pips, if you exclusively use Lightside it does no damage and only immobilises the target.

Still a weapon, just a non-lethal one.

Absolutely, but I just wanted to point out a character interested in being good or Lightside can use the power with less risk of conflict. There is after all a moral difference between "restraining someone against their will" and "hurting someone while you have restrained them against their will"

Move is fluid telekinesis for the most part the thing you are moving is kept moving the entire time.

I'm aware the book references the idea of being able to hold an object if the GM says it's ok but that shouldn't be the main focus of the power and is more narrative and thematic such as moving a sheet of plasteel and holding it in front of a group on innocents to protect them from a blast.

Bind actively holds the target in place however and isn't used on objects.

Only one of its upgrades focuses on the ability to move a person around.

Pointing out to Players that Move is for objects (or throwing people about) and Bind is for people goes along way towards stopping the abuse and if someone does try to use Move to hold a person a GM is within their rights to have that person make an easy athletics check to break the hold as nothing in the Move power holds a person.

I'd also say slowly lifting a person up a wall is the Bind power used without applying pressure and the control upgrade but that my opinion

Also holding someone with move doesn't mean stopping them from shooting you. Bind immobilises completely.

That's very true

A couple of quick points

Move can only affect targets at short range, bind can potentially affect targets at any range.

Also in game terms the immobilisation caused by bind only stops the target from using maneuvers, so they can shoot at you just fine, well they can't aim but otherwise fine. I'm not sure if the last two posts are confused on this, or just using immobilise in a general sense, rather than as a specific game term

A couple of quick points

Move can only affect targets at short range, bind can potentially affect targets at any range.

Also in game terms the immobilisation caused by bind only stops the target from using maneuvers, so they can shoot at you just fine, well they can't aim but otherwise fine. I'm not sure if the last two posts are confused on this, or just using immobilise in a general sense, rather than as a specific game term

From the description of the bind basic power on p286 of FaD core:

"Binds basic power allows the Force user to restrain those nearby, preventing them from harming others and themselves."

I think that's quite clear on what the power does.

The control upgrade also only allows the target to be moved a single range band.

It has been clarified by the developers that the range upgrade for Move affects both start and end range too, I'll see if I can find the post.

A couple of quick points

Move can only affect targets at short range, bind can potentially affect targets at any range.

Also in game terms the immobilisation caused by bind only stops the target from using maneuvers, so they can shoot at you just fine, well they can't aim but otherwise fine. I'm not sure if the last two posts are confused on this, or just using immobilise in a general sense, rather than as a specific game term

From the description of the bind basic power on p286 of FaD core:

"Binds basic power allows the Force user to restrain those nearby, preventing them from harming others and themselves."

I think that's quite clear on what the power does.

The control upgrade also only allows the target to be moved a single range band.

It has been clarified by the developers that the range upgrade for Move affects both start and end range too, I'll see if I can find the post.

If you alow the basic power to prevent actions, what is the point of the upgrades that alow targets to be disorientated and staggered?

As for move, if the developers have said then that is more than a clarification, it is a rules change, as the rules as written are quite specific. Did they clarify how the range upgrades should work with the change? As it is not as simple as just saying you can affect targets beyond short range. For example if I want to move an object from extreme range in front of me to extreme range behind me do I need enough range upgrades to reach extreme once or twice?

People really need to read the actual power rules and not just the fluff otherwise they have no concept of what the power actually does. Just look at Seek...

"Out of the box," Bind merely immobilizes, preventing movement and other maneuvers but not preventing actions like shooting. That said, with the Control upgrade you can strongly discourage doing things with the strain it inflicts, and once you have Mastery you can shut them down completely by staggering them in addition to the immobilization.

A couple of quick points

Move can only affect targets at short range, bind can potentially affect targets at any range.

Also in game terms the immobilisation caused by bind only stops the target from using maneuvers, so they can shoot at you just fine, well they can't aim but otherwise fine. I'm not sure if the last two posts are confused on this, or just using immobilise in a general sense, rather than as a specific game term

From the description of the bind basic power on p286 of FaD core:

"Binds basic power allows the Force user to restrain those nearby, preventing them from harming others and themselves."

I think that's quite clear on what the power does.

The control upgrade also only allows the target to be moved a single range band.

It has been clarified by the developers that the range upgrade for Move affects both start and end range too, I'll see if I can find the post.

On bind, yeah that is what the fluff says, but the rules say the target is immobilized, and the description of immobilized on page 223 says 'An immobilized character cannot perform maneuvers'. Nothing about actions.

If you alow the basic power to prevent actions, what is the point of the upgrades that alow targets to be disorientated and staggered?

As for move, if the developers have said then that is more than a clarification, it is a rules change, as the rules as written are quite specific. Did they clarify how the range upgrades should work with the change? As it is not as simple as just saying you can affect targets beyond short range. For example if I want to move an object from extreme range in front of me to extreme range behind me do I need enough range upgrades to reach extreme once or twice?

The basic power yes but as mentioned about the mastery upgrade allows you to stagger them which stops them performing actions

Apologies, i didn't make clear my point. yes basic Bind is limited, but anyone buying into the power is needing to know what the intent of that power is, and its intent is one of two things:

1. stop someone completely, preventing them from doing anything (Mastery and control committing 3 FD)
2. Force Choke

I had not meant to suggest these things where going to happen with the basic power, it was an overall view of what the power is capable of achieving.

As for move, if the developers have said then that is more than a clarification, it is a rules change, as the rules as written are quite specific. Did they clarify how the range upgrades should work with the change? As it is not as simple as just saying you can affect targets beyond short range. For example if I want to move an object from extreme range in front of me to extreme range behind me do I need enough range upgrades to reach extreme once or twice?

I do agree completely that the text of the power is very clear that everything must start at short range, but from the Developer Answered Questions in the EotE forum comes this question/answer. Again i believe its the fluff, RAW and RAI not aligning properly.

So, is Vader basically using the Dark Side version of Bind when he is Force Choking people? I'm still not entirely clear on how some of those powers from the movie are reflected in the book. Me and some friends assume it's Bind, since every time he starts choking someone, they don't move around, and just stand there, gasping. Also, if that is Bind, how did he choke that guy from one starship to another? I don't recall Bind having a planetary scale range like Battle Meditation does.

Yes, that is what he's doing. And I'm pretty sure he was on the same ship as Ozzel.

Yes, that is what he's doing. And I'm pretty sure he was on the same ship as Ozzel.

Was he? Oh yeah, I guess you're right. He was in the same room as him earlier in the movie, along with the other officer who ends up taking his place. For some reason whenever I see that scene, I think he's communicating from one ship to another.

Apologies, i didn't make clear my point. yes basic Bind is limited, but anyone buying into the power is needing to know what the intent of that power is, and its intent is one of two things:

• stop someone completely, preventing them from doing anything (Mastery and control committing 3 FD)
• Force Choke

I had not meant to suggest these things where going to happen with the basic power, it was an overall view of what the power is capable of achieving.

As for move, if the developers have said then that is more than a clarification, it is a rules change, as the rules as written are quite specific. Did they clarify how the range upgrades should work with the change? As it is not as simple as just saying you can affect targets beyond short range. For example if I want to move an object from extreme range in front of me to extreme range behind me do I need enough range upgrades to reach extreme once or twice?

I do agree completely that the text of the power is very clear that everything must start at short range, but from the Developer Answered Questions in the EotE forum comes this question/answer. Again i believe its the fluff, RAW and RAI not aligning properly.

Yes, that is what he's doing. And I'm pretty sure he was on the same ship as Ozzel.

Was he? Oh yeah, I guess you're right. He was in the same room as him earlier in the movie, along with the other officer who ends up taking his place. For some reason whenever I see that scene, I think he's communicating from one ship to another.

Palpatine uses Bind through a holographic connection in TCW...apparently if you can make a connection through the Force, distance matters not...

I do kinda think the Emperor and Darth Vader are a little bit special, we probably can't expect the rules for PC's to cover them. And if a GM wants to run a party that's that powerful then they are probably going to hand wave a few things anyway.

Aye, Vader in particular is the big nemesis, so these cutscenes of him choking people's are used to show how powerful and evil he is.

Vader also uses Bind/Force choke to kill an Admiral over communications in ESB.

Vader also uses Bind/Force choke to kill an Admiral over communications in ESB.

That's Ozzel.