Why do people like using soontir fel? It seems to me that he is a waste of points. Unlike howl runner or rhymer who can give their benefit while still keeping themselves out of engagement range, fel only affects squads he is engaged with. And if I were the opponent, I'd just focus fire him and his 3 hull value. Yes, he has defense tokens, but a couple of xwings and maybe a face card or two could fell him easily. So why use him?

Why do people like using soontir fel? It seems to me that he is a waste of points. Unlike howl runner or rhymer who can give their benefit while still keeping themselves out of engagement range, fel only affects squads he is engaged with. And if I were the opponent, I'd just focus fire him and his 3 hull value. Yes, he has defense tokens, but a couple of xwings and maybe a face card or two could fell him easily. So why use him?

Because Escort.

It exists on the TIE Advanced, and that forces you to shoot at someone other than Soontir, which means Soontir is never fired at - not at least until the 5-hull chaff has been torn through...

Fel with an advanced escort or two can cause serious havoc. You cannot shoot at him (Therefore you take automatic 1 damage.)

I also like to pair him with Howlrunner and Dengar. 5 attack dice and Counter 4 is pretty nasty.

....I may have to use this.

Because you can surround him with Advanced escorts and deal out a ton of reciprocal damage. And then, if he's next to Howlrunner and Dengar, what are you going to attack first: Soontir, who will counter you for 4 with a reroll? Howlrunner, who will counter for 1, and gives Soontir +1 die, and take Soontir damage? Dengar, who grants counter and Intel to everyone else, and take Soontir damage?

He has the potential to give out a lot of free, unmitigated damage, if you have other priority targets around him or keep him well-escorted.

Stack his ability with Mauler Mithel, IG-88 and Intel, plus the Escorts mentioned above. Every time your opponent attacks someone other than Soontir, they take damage. Any time Mauler moves, they take damage. Then IG-88 can swing in and assassinate your enemy's Intel/Rhymer/Soontir.

Op, what do you mean by face card?

....I may have to use this.

This is the real answer to, how do you use Vader.

Damage Cards are only assigned to ships, not squadrons. I take it that was what you meant in your OP.

The "Bomber" keyword is not used when concerning squadrons, only ships.

And remember Soontir's counter ability. With Dengar and Howlrunner behind he can be quite painful to get rid of, I've found that out in several games I have played against him.

I thought by "face card" he meant an ace. Cause they have faces on them?

That is a very odd way of putting it, but maybe. That would explain a lot really . I assumed he meant Faceup damage card when he said that but possibly not.

I love the Vader / Fel pair.

Add in a few tie fighters and you have a nice anti-fighter group.

Considering the last 4 lists I've gone against have only had 2 vanilla YT-2400s as their fighter support, it should be sufficient to handle them.

If you use Fel with advanced make sure you don't leave a spot that a squadrant can engage him without engaging the advanced.

Because you can surround him with Advanced escorts and deal out a ton of reciprocal damage. And then, if he's next to Howlrunner and Dengar, what are you going to attack first: Soontir, who will counter you for 4 with a reroll? Howlrunner, who will counter for 1, and gives Soontir +1 die, and take Soontir damage? Dengar, who will counter for 2 and grants Intel to everyone else, and take Soontir damage?

Just for the record, a reminder that Dengar doesn't give himself counter: I'd shoot him first, then pin down the rest of the group with a couple fighters properly placed. Advanced are really important in that setup, because all kind of nasty things can happen, but only as long as every squadron is doing the work he was intended for, and that implies being escorted right. That's why I don't feel safe with just 1 advanced around, and almost always find myself bringing 2 of them, or at least Vader.

If you use Fel with advanced make sure you don't leave a spot that a squadrant can engage him without engaging the advanced.

That won't work - you can cover him pretty substantially, mind you, but 100% cover from one Escort squadron is impossible. The good news is even if the opponent can get 1 squadron in on him, he's well-equipped to survive through light harassment.

If you decide to go for the whole Soontir+Mithel+Intel shenanigans setup, I think you could justify 2 Advanceds to act as bodyguards for your flying circus, though.

Sounds like the Vader eta2 is coming out to play now.

Annnnnd a interceptor will get a stripe.

Because you can surround him with Advanced escorts and deal out a ton of reciprocal damage. And then, if he's next to Howlrunner and Dengar, what are you going to attack first: Soontir, who will counter you for 4 with a reroll? Howlrunner, who will counter for 1, and gives Soontir +1 die, and take Soontir damage? Dengar, who will counter for 2 and grants Intel to everyone else, and take Soontir damage?

Just for the record, a reminder that Dengar doesn't give himself counter

Good point, thanks. I was thinking he had inherent counter: I see Jan way more than Dengar, so I get their keywords mixed up...

Fel with an advanced escort or two can cause serious havoc. You cannot shoot at him (Therefore you take automatic 1 damage.)

I also like to pair him with Howlrunner and Dengar. 5 attack dice and Counter 4 is pretty nasty.

Still shocked that howlrunner increases counter.

Fel + Advance + Dengar... Unholy trinity

Yes, but why take Soontir Fel when you can take Rhymer and add more bombers/firesprays? After all, dead capital ships do a lot more for you than dead fighters. Especially with intel coming in to free up the bombers to shoot at enemy capital ships and ignore your fighters......

Yes, Fel is great. vader is great. But in a way I feel these things don't matter with Intel combined with Bomber. I wish it wasn't so, but there it is.

Yes, but why take Soontir Fel when you can take Rhymer and add more bombers/firesprays? After all, dead capital ships do a lot more for you than dead fighters. Especially with intel coming in to free up the bombers to shoot at enemy capital ships and ignore your fighters......

Yes, Fel is great. vader is great. But in a way I feel these things don't matter with Intel combined with Bomber. I wish it wasn't so, but there it is.

There's a meta and a counter meta...

As it is, Soontir Fel's Burst Damage when properly equipped is a perfect foil for Rhymer - as the Spike Damage will clear up a Dengar, or an Advanced, or even a Rhymer...

Just about everything has its place.

Yes, but why take Soontir Fel when you can take Rhymer and add more bombers/firesprays? After all, dead capital ships do a lot more for you than dead fighters. Especially with intel coming in to free up the bombers to shoot at enemy capital ships and ignore your fighters......

Yes, Fel is great. vader is great. But in a way I feel these things don't matter with Intel combined with Bomber. I wish it wasn't so, but there it is.

There's a meta and a counter meta...

As it is, Soontir Fel's Burst Damage when properly equipped is a perfect foil for Rhymer - as the Spike Damage will clear up a Dengar, or an Advanced, or even a Rhymer...

Just about everything has its place.

Exactly.

The last thing a guy with Rhymer, a Jumpmaster, and firesprays wants to see is that anti fighter setup. With no advanced all those points you DONT have in capital ships being pinned down after the jumpmaster gets focused down can be match losing. Hell even having one tie advanced I've had that thing nuked down in 2 xwing activations and then have had to scatter the firesprays and sacrifice Dengar. I've been trying out using flight controllers to alpha down fighters coming in to pin down my ball, but I find that imperial players who invest the points on those squad synergies are the ones I fear most when running ball.

Personally, I really like the concept of Sontir, but Ive never seen anyone use him very well. Everyone jumps on the Sontir/Tie advanced thing, but whenever Ive faced it Ive been able to jump in and choose who I engage with. So if I want to kill other things (Firesprays!) I just engage them and stay out of sontirs range. If I want to kill sontir I jump in, outside the advanced escort bubble, and kill him (unless I cant get a single accuracy....). Either way, I think ive only ever taken one or two damage from his special ability in the whole of my time playing armada.

So, if you want to play Sontir, my advice would be forget the Rhymer ball thing because it anchors him and makes him either irrelevant or a sitting duck. Be aggressive, sure, take an advanced escort, but make sure you are squadroning into combat right into the middle. sure, he might die eventually, but at least you can force the advanced/auto damage/counter attack to work until he does.

Personally, I really like the concept of Sontir, but Ive never seen anyone use him very well. Everyone jumps on the Sontir/Tie advanced thing, but whenever Ive faced it Ive been able to jump in and choose who I engage with. So if I want to kill other things (Firesprays!) I just engage them and stay out of sontirs range. If I want to kill sontir I jump in, outside the advanced escort bubble, and kill him (unless I cant get a single accuracy....). Either way, I think ive only ever taken one or two damage from his special ability in the whole of my time playing armada.

So, if you want to play Sontir, my advice would be forget the Rhymer ball thing because it anchors him and makes him either irrelevant or a sitting duck. Be aggressive, sure, take an advanced escort, but make sure you are squadroning into combat right into the middle. sure, he might die eventually, but at least you can force the advanced/auto damage/counter attack to work until he does.

The squadron game has a very high skill ceiling. in other words, the difference between a player who plays squadrons very well and a person who is new or not very good at squadrons is huge in terms of what you get out of the squadrons.

A person who can move their squadrons in such a way that they can choose when and how contact happens can get a tremendous amount of leverage out of soontir and his counterparts. If you run Soontir out he's going to die and his ability will only hit a couple of squads, a good player understands that at speed 5 soontir can/should come in last, after the landscape of engagement has been at least somewhat locked in, place him strategically where it's tough to get at him and where the tie advanced have zone coverage (against anything but A-wings, tie advanced are highly able to lock things down when used well if you have a couple) and before you know it the enemy has no good shots where they aren't getting countered and dinged by soontirs ability. If you are running a firespray heavy rhymerball with their anemic 3 blue dice you typically won't have a lot to answer this, especially if you make the (extremely common) mistake of being over-eager with that ball and exposing it too early.

Op, what do you mean by face card?

Any card with a character face on it. Like wedge, dengar, etc.