Comm Noise

By TheEasternKing, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

This came up in a tournament yesterday in my first game.

I took a crit hit on a Raider I that had just activated, Comm Noise was the crit. I had no command dial to change as the ship had activated already, dial was face up, so after reading the card I thought it meant it had to reduce my speed by 1, as the other choice was invalid.

The other guy got hung up on the "may" part saying he would not reduce my speed by 1.

" Your opponent may either reduce your speed by 1 or choose a new command on your top command dial, then flip this card face down. "

As I understand it Crits always go off, there is no choose it not affect something, or trigger, unless you cannot actually meet the requirements on the card itself, IE projector misaligned only goes of if you have shields for it to reduce, but other than that they always do something.

My case was the wording was simply a this or that choice, pick option one, or pick option two, not a I'm not going to pick anything, and my reasoning was the "either"

So is this actually a crit that can do nothing if your opponent chooses not to trigger it, or is it a definite pick one or the other?

Edited by TheEasternKing

Your opponent gets to pick one or the other. He can't opt to not select either one.

Hmm, can see this one being controversial.

Kind of depends on where you see the "may either" option kicking in:

you may [either reduce speed or change command] - it's optional to do anything, and if you do something it's one of two options

you may either [reduce speed] or [change command] - you've got a choice of two options, do exactly one

Given that none of the other crits give you the option to do nothing I expect you've got to do one of the two. But expect arguments both way!

Sounds like a good case for an FAQ.

No. This does not need a faq. It lists two possible effects, then tells you your opponent gets to choose.

I think this one is more ambiguous than that. I don't have the rulebook handy, so I can't refer to it, but the carded is worded as "Your opponent may . . ."

"May" is a far cry from "must," and it makes a world of difference. FFG uses that word on a LOT of cards (Ozzel, Isard, Precision Strike), and in each instance, you can take the action, but you do not have to. If your opponent had to choose, the card would be worded:

"Your opponent must either reduce your speed by 1 or choose a new command on your top command dial, then flip this card face down."

You could even argue that, if it's a compulsory choice, I can choose to change the command on your top command dial. It doesn't say the action has to happen, just that I have a choose a new command for a command dial (that doesn't exist).

If it's a compulsory choice, you must choose A or B, and A or B must happen to proceed, what to you do if a Command 1 vessel is at speed zero?

So consensus has yet to be reached on this.

I must admit after reading the replies, I am still leaning towards it must happen.

Under Critical Effect (page 15 learn to play) :

Face up damage cards count as damage against the ships hull, and also inflict the effect described on the card , they remain face up until an effect flips them face down, or discards them.

The only time they do nothing, is when they cannot be resolved, no shields remain, no command dial, no speed etc etc, otherwise they always do something, this is critical damage you are sustaining.

Why does not having a command dial mean he can not choose the option to change the command dial?

If he doesn't want to change speed pick that. The effect "fizzles" and you move on with your day.

If the ship was already at speed zero and it didn't have a command dial does the game just stop?

Why does not having a command dial mean he can not choose the option to change the command dial?

If he doesn't want to change speed pick that. The effect "fizzles" and you move on with your day.

If the ship was already at speed zero and it didn't have a command dial does the game just stop?

You have to pick a valid choice, it says change the top command dial, there was no command dials to change, it is not a choice. it was at speed 4, so reducing speed to 3 is a valid choice.

If the ship has revealed its only command dial, and is at speed zero, neither choice is valid, because neither can be resolved, the card does nothing and gets flipped face down, just like projector misaligned does nothing if you have 0 shields remaining on all facings. otherwise it does something valid, ie remove all shields from the facing with the most remaining.

Edited by TheEasternKing

Where does it say you have to make a valid choice? You just have to make a choice.

And I would still argue that you don't have to make a choice at all.

Where does it say you have to make a valid choice? You just have to make a choice.

And I would still argue that you don't have to make a choice at all.

You just sustained critical damage, you pick and resolve one of the two effects, there is no chose not to inflict a crit, you always do so, and if there is no speed and no command dial, you resolve nothing and it flips face down, because it doesn't meet the criteria on the 2 choices, does not mean you can not inflict critical damage.

The validity comes in from the choices, Can I change it's speed, yes / no ? if yes you can pick this, can I change it's command dial yes / no ? if yes you can pick this, that is the ups and downs of it.

This can only ever happen on a 1 command dial ship that has already activated, every other instance you pick one or the other, all of a sudden because it suits your purpose, you don't get to trigger a critical effect? no where else is this true (damage cards).

Edited by TheEasternKing

This is the only damage card that has "may" in it, to my knowledge. Again, "may" means you can, not that you have to . FFG is very deliberate about wording (unlike GW, hence all of their RAW vs RAI issues). If they wanted it to be a must, they would have included the word "must." Or at the very least not included the word "may."

This is the only damage card that has "may" in it, to my knowledge. Again, "may" means you can, not that you have to . FFG is very deliberate about wording (unlike GW, hence all of their RAW vs RAI issues). If they wanted it to be a must, they would have included the word "must." Or at the very least not included the word "may."

Actually, there is one other card (Shield Failure) that has "opponent may" in it. None of the other cards use that turn of phrase.

This is the only damage card that has "may" in it, to my knowledge. Again, "may" means you can, not that you have to . FFG is very deliberate about wording (unlike GW, hence all of their RAW vs RAI issues). If they wanted it to be a must, they would have included the word "must." Or at the very least not included the word "may."

Actually, there is one other card (Shield Failure) that has "opponent may" in it. None of the other cards use that turn of phrase.

And it is worth noting, they are the only two cards that the choice of resolution is offered to your opponent, I'd simply view it as a polite wording issue, not a you can skip this if you feel like it.

Critical effects are devastating attacks .

Critical effects have an effect that is resolved immediately, or a persistent effect that applies when triggered.

Critical effects stay in effect until removed or flipped face down.

All words from the 2 books you get in the base set, I am not feeling the "You do not have to resolve this card" vibe.

Critical Effects are always resolved, the only time they are not is when the criteria for the trigger on them cannot be met.

Aye. The RRG specifically states that, other than upgrade cards, all other card effects are obligatory.