Advanced Homing Missile as a Major Rhymer fix.

If Major Rhymer could go from Range 1 to 4 that would be pretty cool. But I wonder if in Epic Major Rhymer and Advanced Homing Missile would be worth considering.

I'm just saying. I've been flying the same list since December and am having zero trouble* beating people with the t-65.

*except this one guy that runs Crackswarm and has eliminated me from 3 different tournaments with it. Half my losses this season are to him alone.

I'm just saying. I've been flying the same list since December and am having zero trouble* beating people with the t-65.

*except this one guy that runs Crackswarm and has eliminated me from 3 different tournaments with it. Half my losses this season are to him alone.

Mj's been very clear on this and has said the x-wing needs to be more efficient than the bwing to be worth taking because the b-wings can barrel roll.

Mj's been very clear on this and has said the x-wing needs to be more efficient than the bwing to be worth taking because the b-wings can barrel roll.

This is what I was trying to say but Hobojebus said it better and far more concise.

I think I talk to much. What do you think? Maybe I just get into the details. Oops there I go. How about:

^ This

I'm just saying. I've been flying the same list since December and am having zero trouble* beating people with the t-65.

*except this one guy that runs Crackswarm and has eliminated me from 3 different tournaments with it. Half my losses this season are to him alone.

I hate Crackswarm. I say that with a lot of respect because it's a good squad, but it's a tough nut to crack. I'm also slightly envious because I can't spend that much money on YV-666's and Khiraxz fighters.

The closest I came was having 2 ties left. The guy that's got my number this year bought them all off of miniature market, took the crackshot, and then resold the khiraxz. Mostly to me. I actually used them to come in 7th (bossk, 3K) at the last store championship i played in.

Advanced Homing Missile as a Major Rhymer fix.

If Major Rhymer could go from Range 1 to 4 that would be pretty cool. But I wonder if in Epic Major Rhymer and Advanced Homing Missile would be worth considering.

The 6 points you spend for Rhymer's ability isn't as big a deal when you've got 300 points to spend and crits on Huge Ships can be crippling.

IA made Biggs a Bigger pain in the ass

Every time I tried to fix the T-65 by improving its survivablity, I ran into the "Biggs problem".

And, of course, the big problem with the T-65 is that the aces are such hate magnates that they won't survive more than a round or two without flying next to Biggs.

I get the feeling some people are blowing a 0.3% theoretical difference way out of proportion...

I get the feeling some people are blowing a 0.3% theoretical difference way out of proportion...

well, 0.3% difference + B-wings can roll + B-wings are highly customizable (see super efficient FCS B-wing); B-wings aren't even used that much anymore

do note, however, that I believe FFG really ****** up here but not with IA. Targeting Astromech is perhaps one of the most disappointing missed opportunities in the game that could've propelled both the T-65 and T-70 generics to new heights. It just needed to be a 2 point k4 clone, that's it.

it would've rewarded the positioning prowess of those skilled enough to utilize the limited green maneuvers on either dial and still end up in a good enough position to focus for fully modified shots. Combined with IA, we might've seen a highly competitive X

a man can dream

Forget K7, I'd have been thrilled with a crappy FCS:

"When you spend a target lock, you may gain another target lock on that ship. You may not spend additional target locks this round."

(Second part to stop self-modifying ordnance)

It's objectively weaker than FCS - they both give you a TL after the attack, but this one demanded you have it before the attack as well.

And it would still have been an improvement.

In fact with Integrated Astromech, it'd let you run a slightly-worse FCS for 23pts. Still problematic to 24pts, but at least it'd be something.

Another vote for Munitions Failsafe here. Maybe if it was 0.

I get the feeling some people are blowing a 0.3% theoretical difference way out of proportion...

It's not the 0.3% difference between an X-Wing with the best* upgrade and a basic B-Wing that has people up in knots, it's the 7.7% difference between it and a Z-95.

In other words, the ship that the X-Wing was designed to replace canonically beats it in the one thing the X-Wing is supposed to be good at.

The X-Wing is the title ship of the game. I'm not saying it should be the BEST ship, but it should be competitive against other ships. It's pretty much a flat C tier, with the exception of Biggs and Wedge barely edging into B territory with unique abilities.

The problem is that it was created and priced before the devs knew how to price ships properly. They were, in essence, guessing: "This is how much we think it should be worth in this game that has no other ships."

Nowadays, with the game firmly established, they DO know how to price ships without basically throwing numbers at a dartboard. Look at Rookie Pilot vs. Blue Squadron Novice: +1 Shield, +S-Loops, +Boost, +Straight 3 Green (not counting Tech as there's very little in that slot!) All that is worth what, 4 points? 5? Yet BSN is only +3 points over the Rookie. The Rookie, for what it is, should cost 20 points, or perhaps 19.

As far as winning with T-65s goes... when I play chess against the ten year olds in my class I spot them a rook and a knight. I can still win because old age and treachery beats youth and reflexes. Knowledge, judgement, and prediction wins games against those who do not have it. But being able to win a game with a weak unit does not make that unit strong, it just proves one's skill.

In a game where someone has strong units but weak skill versus someone who has the exact opposite, I'd bet on the more skilled player every time. However, when equally skilled players butt heads, but one has weak and the other strong units... well, that's when I bet on the strong units.

do note, however, that I believe FFG really ****** up here but not with IA. Targeting Astromech is perhaps one of the most disappointing missed opportunities in the game that could've propelled both the T-65 and T-70 generics to new heights. It just needed to be a 2 point k4 clone, that's it.

it would've rewarded the positioning prowess of those skilled enough to utilize the limited green maneuvers on either dial and still end up in a good enough position to focus for fully modified shots. Combined with IA, we might've seen a highly competitive X

a man can dream

Forget K7, I'd have been thrilled with a crappy FCS:

"When you spend a target lock, you may gain another target lock on that ship. You may not spend additional target locks this round."

(Second part to stop self-modifying ordnance)

It's objectively weaker than FCS - they both give you a TL after the attack, but this one demanded you have it before the attack as well.

And it would still have been an improvement.

In fact with Integrated Astromech, it'd let you run a slightly-worse FCS for 23pts. Still problematic to 24pts, but at least it'd be something.

I think that if Targeting Astromech had been a single point people would have been singing its praises.

A 0 point Extra Munitions Astromech might be cool. If you don't spend any points on a Torpedo, it's just a free droid to enable IA that has no other effect. If you spend a few points on Torpedoes you can take IA for some extra survivability or GC to make the Torpedoes hit harder.

The problem is that it was created and priced before the devs knew how to price ships properly. They were, in essence, guessing: "This is how much we think it should be worth in this game that has no other ships."

Nowadays, with the game firmly established, they DO know how to price ships without basically throwing numbers at a dartboard. Look at Rookie Pilot vs. Blue Squadron Novice: +1 Shield, +S-Loops, +Boost, +Straight 3 Green (not counting Tech as there's very little in that slot!) All that is worth what, 4 points? 5? Yet BSN is only +3 points over the Rookie. The Rookie, for what it is, should cost 20 points, or perhaps 19.

this is just wrong

the BSN is actually less efficient than the rookie by a lot

hell, the +1 shield is actually what would've made the rookie an efficient jouster...at 21 points

BSN really should be closer to 23/22, not counting integrated

So Y-wings would get triple shots with their proton torpedos while K-wings and B's still only get two? Naw.

Query: were countermeasures meant to fix anything?

Query: were countermeasures meant to fix anything?

faith in the worth of green dice

(i.e, there may have been some; not after countermeasures!)

So Y-wings would get triple shots with their proton torpedos while K-wings and B's still only get two? Naw.

Assuming this is about an EM Astromech. Just make it X-Wing only to keep it out of the hands of ships that can already take EM.

Query: were countermeasures meant to fix anything?

I don't know, but I hope not. They took R2-F2 (a never used card), made it one use only, and made it a point more expensive. Definitely in the top 3 most useless upgrades.

The problem is that it was created and priced before the devs knew how to price ships properly. They were, in essence, guessing: "This is how much we think it should be worth in this game that has no other ships."

Nowadays, with the game firmly established, they DO know how to price ships without basically throwing numbers at a dartboard. Look at Rookie Pilot vs. Blue Squadron Novice: +1 Shield, +S-Loops, +Boost, +Straight 3 Green (not counting Tech as there's very little in that slot!) All that is worth what, 4 points? 5? Yet BSN is only +3 points over the Rookie. The Rookie, for what it is, should cost 20 points, or perhaps 19.

this is just wrong

the BSN is actually less efficient than the rookie by a lot

hell, the +1 shield is actually what would've made the rookie an efficient jouster...at 21 points

BSN really should be closer to 23/22, not counting integrated

Yes, but the T-70 is more than just a raw jouster; boost and the S-Loops give it fair knife fighting ability - and who knows what Tech cards will be created to help them in the future? Should have just been a System slot; cluttering up ships and complicating rules with... but n/m.

Raw jousting can tell you one stat about a ship's performance and I'm fine with using it as a baseline to determine what models are overcosted, but it obviously isn't the be-all stat otherwise Z-95s would be ruling the roost. And, no offense MajorJuggler, but I'm not gonna blindly trust your maths on how you account for other stats in 3.0 til I can hold them in my hand. Black boxes are fine for airplanes, less so for games.

What about a 0-cost astromech that has the effect of Munitions Failsafe? Considering the limited platforms it can go into, it'd make a munitions-based Y-Wing a strong choice (GC+Failsafe Astro+EM+Protons?) and make the X-Wing's torp slot... potentially worth it? No, still not worth it, it still might die without a shot off, though Flechettes would definitely put a crimp in the parade - god, that's actually a little broken, as you still perform the attack, you just don't discard the card unless it's a hit. So, multiple Stress hits from unspent Flechettes with Failsafe? That seems like it would be very punishing. I like. However, it still makes the T-70 better...

However, as much as I feel the X-Wing needs an upgrade, this is a game of maneuver, not "Let's point our ships at each other and see who rolls better." If we wanted that, we'd be playing Warhammer 40k. Also, in many ways it's about the HEROES and VILLAINS of the dogfight, not generics; so IMHO generics jousting = good is by itself a failure in design.

Jousting SHOULD be at most mediocre, otherwise you're not encouraging people to actually, ya know, care about their dials and win via actions and carefully chosen pilots with synergistic abilities.

I think that's one reason why I'm a little ambivalent about the supposed "ordnance meta" coming up, because in a lot of ways it's going to be more about jousting with high efficiency for as long as the ammo holds out. That's why the triple U-boats, Tala Z's, and Bombers are looking strong.

Man, you know what would have rocked? If IA was "Add one astromech slot to your modification bar. Upgrades to that slot are discounted by 1 point."

Couple that with a 2 point generic Astromech that says "When you acquire a blue Target Lock token, you may acquire an evade token." K-Turn/Tallon Roll into a TL and evade token? Please and thank you.

I don't think this is overpowered by any means, given what Imperial ships are getting for fixes. It means that at least one PS3+ X-Wing can get a free EPT slot from R2-D6. It gives X-Wings a means to get evade, making up for the loss of the original IA card ability. It means action economy for a ship that desperately needs it. At the very minimum it means a free R2 Astromech on a Rookie Pilot. T-70s get helped too; Red Ace and Blue Ace become competitive with the addition of an EPT slot that doesnt remove their astromech slot. Poe would be forced to choose between a second astromech and Autothrusters, so he doesnt necessarily get any better. Ello would love R2 Astro and BB-8.

It would have made X-Wings of both new and old, and all their pilots, way more competitive. I promise you that we would see T-65s back on the board if that were IA's card text.

Considering what some Imperial ships have been able to do for well over a year now, this is nothing more than setting things somewhat even.

Man, you know what would have rocked? If IA was "Add one astromech slot to your modification bar. Upgrades to that slot are discounted by 1 point."

Couple that with a 2 point generic Astromech that says "When you acquire a blue Target Lock token, you may acquire an evade token." K-Turn/Tallon Roll into a TL and evade token? Please and thank you.

I don't think this is overpowered by any means, given what Imperial ships are getting for fixes. It means that at least one PS3+ X-Wing can get a free EPT slot from R2-D6. It gives X-Wings a means to get evade, making up for the loss of the original IA card ability. It means action economy for a ship that desperately needs it. At the very minimum it means a free R2 Astromech on a Rookie Pilot. T-70s get helped too; Red Ace and Blue Ace become competitive with the addition of an EPT slot that doesnt remove their astromech slot. Poe would be forced to choose between a second astromech and Autothrusters, so he doesnt necessarily get any better. Ello would love R2 Astro and BB-8.

You missed "It means we can combine R2 Astromech with R2-D2 or BB-8!", which would be up in pre-nerf Phantom levels of brokenness.

I'm an imperial player since the start of the game. That said, I think t65 need a bump. Maybe just a -2 to astromechs, I don't know. The jousters are not competitive, which sucks. Even if you're on the other sideof the table.

Query: were countermeasures meant to fix anything?

I don't know, but I hope not. They took R2-F2 (a never used card), made it one use only, and made it a point more expensive. Definitely in the top 3 most useless upgrades.

R2-F2 and Countermeasures are very different cases because Countermeasures does not take an action.

the problem with "did IA make the t-65 competitive" is that we're citing numbers for the rookie pilot

the rookie pilot is a huge problem, because the X-wing has nothing other than its ability to move and take one of two actions. It's a pure jouster, capable of doing literally nothing else, and it simply isn't efficient enough to do that.

Thinking of the X only in those terms, however, completely fails to take into account the pilots' ability to transcend these restrictions, ala Biggs' amazing and game-changing ability or Wedge's "rail-gun-on-a-roomba" bb8 + PTL etc. Note, not arc-dodger but "Rail-gun-on-a-roomba." The barrel-roll + limited greens don't dodge squat (unless you do "Rebel arc-dodging" aka bumping into your opponent), but the combo allows for full mods every turn

I don't personally see Wedge as super ultra mega triple-X competitive, but far be it from me to say he doesn't belong on the table due to inefficiency. Dude is the textbook definition of glass cannon, hits like a truck with rocket engines and shatters like a soap bubble sculpture. He's terrifying, and priority #1 in any game he's in. IA certainly helped him there

Biggs, meanwhile, is just Biggs+ that much more durability. Dude is a massive pain in the ass, a direct counter to the Stress Y, and probably something we're going to have to start looking at once Ordnance becomes a thing.

See also: Tarn Mison. Integrated Astro is basically a straight buff to Tarn who was already pretty good, doubly so in a Gold Squadron meta where he outbids PS2.