Or perhaps we just like tatooine and don't really think compulsion is a nice thing to say...

Really? Compulsion is now a dirty word?

Not a "dirty word".

But the way you used it, it was indeed a mean spirited thing to say.

Well I'm sorry you don't like to hear it, but the bottom line is that the Star Wars franchise is adept at rehashing old stuff over and over. And the fans seem to constantly eat it up. Every band you see playing somewhere, oh look, it's that alien band from Mos Eisley cantina. Someone always has to say "you're my only hope". If there is a crime boss, it's a Hutt. If you're a smuggler, you have a wookie copilot, and you even have a princess love interest.

Well, I am glad I am not at those (completely made up) gaming tables where these sessions happen. Then again I can't imagine the hyperbole you have gone through describing things resembling anything that happens at a lot of gaming tables anyway.

Every planet of importance in the entire galaxy, happens to be one of the ones from the movies, and they shoehorn in some "ancient temple" or similar reason, to justify taking everyone back to Tatooine, or Hoth, or whatever. They are afraid to actually tread new ground, but the funny thing is, they apparently don't have to. Because the stuff keeps selling like hotcakes no matter how many times we've seen it. If that's not a compulsion, I don't know what is. And besides, I didn't specify you when I said it, I even stated it's only some fans. You're the one that included yourself in the description, not me.

In fact you answered it in response to something I wrote and thus I took it personal, that is the way in which discussions work. You talk about originality as being in this vacuum outside of the existing stuff whereas at my table we like to combine the iconic stuff with the new and inventive things. That is the way we ground our games and thusfar we are having a blast doing this.

I would not quickly have a session take place on Tatooine but would love to lift elements from it to my game. Jawa's being one, Gamorean Guards being a second and there are many more things I like that come from that first movie I love so much.

You might scream "boring" I smile and shout "Star Wars!"

And how much source material for Tatooine really is out there? Because I never owned any. Ever.

Look, I loves me some Tatooine. Probably my favorite tourist spot from the whole series - but even I would be like "Whole book? Naw, no thanks."

We've already got two solid books that can be found at pretty reasonable prices (5 bucks for the Mos Eisley Galaxy Guide, 7 bucks for Secrets of Tatooine - at least according to Amazon), so a whole tome is probably unnecessary. Including it in a sector guide? Absolutely. Having a game set there? Even better!

An Arkanis sector book would take care of the problem, and could give us Jawas, Tuskens, and Geonosians. It would also give us Tatooine, Geonosis, the Imperial stronghold world of Arkanis, and a bunch of other worlds.

Depends how closely FFG have to follow the canon, as the Geonosians are all dead. Darth Vader seemingly killed that last surviving geonosian queen, plus with geonosis' appearance on rebels and Ezra sensing no life, they are gone. Which puts a certain adventure in a strange spot.

Since everyone is so annoyed about no Jawas, here you go.

House rule:

Jawa

Brawn 1: They are small

Agility 2: Nothing notable about this

Intellect 3: Mechanical apptitude

Cunning 3: They are clever, and foraging (even for mechanical parts) is rolled with survival

Willpower 2: Nothing notable

Presence 1: They're ugly

1 rank in mechanics: Mechanical apptitude

1 rank in redundant systems or bad motivator: More for the mechanical apptitude,

Silhouette 0: they are an example for it on page 212

Wound threshold 9+ brawn: small

Strain threshold 12+ willpower: dealing with hot conditions and crowded sandcrawlers

Look, I loves me some Tatooine. Probably my favorite tourist spot from the whole series - but even I would be like "Whole book? Naw, no thanks."

Let me be clear, I agree.

We do not know that the Geonosians are all dead, we simply know that there is no life on Geonosis. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the surviving Geonosians have been enslaved. After all, they helped design the original Death Star, who better to help build it?

Geonosians turn up alive and well and throwing a party in the sequel to the Beginner adventure.

So much for 'canon'!

Well, maybe it is like the Alderanians. Almost all of them died but the off worlders survived.

We do not know that the Geonosians are all dead, we simply know that there is no life on Geonosis. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the surviving Geonosians have been enslaved. After all, they helped design the original Death Star, who better to help build it?

We've also got a similar case with the Caamasi, whose planet was pretty much put to the torch, and yet the species continues to exist long after that event.

So just because Geonosis got sterilized doesn't mean the Geonosians as a species vanished from the face of the galaxy.

A lot (maybe most?) of spacefaring species in Star Wars seem to have colonies on other worlds, so it would make sense that you can't drive an entire species extinct just by glassing their homeworld.

We do not know that the Geonosians are all dead, we simply know that there is no life on Geonosis. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the surviving Geonosians have been enslaved. After all, they helped design the original Death Star, who better to help build it?

We've also got a similar case with the Caamasi, whose planet was pretty much put to the torch, and yet the species continues to exist long after that event.

So just because Geonosis got sterilized doesn't mean the Geonosians as a species vanished from the face of the galaxy.

And talk about great character motivation. A Geonosian who got shafted during the clone wars then had to survive through a genocide... Yikes. that would be one bitter bug.

Still crossing my fingers for a Devaronian in the bounty hunter book...

Devaronian is in Nexus of Power for Force and Destiny.

Ack. Don't remind me.

Again, I'm crossing my fingers for a Devaronian (in the far more appropriate) bounty hunter book.

I don't purchase F&D books.

They provided more info on Devaronian's in Nexus of Power than they would have for the Bounty Hunter book. How is that a bad thing? Just because it says Force and Destiny?

Well, see, here's where things get annoying when it comes to FFG's planning of the Star Wars rpg...

Splitting the thing into three distinct game settings is great. We've got EotE for the folks who prefer the "Han and Chewie"-feel of things and grew up with the Marvel comics, Brian Daley books, and "Droids" cartoon. We've got AoR for the folks who prefer the more militaristic feel of the original trilogy, the Rogue Squadron and X-Wing games, and the overall feel of helping the Rebellion overthrow the Empire; blasting as many stormtroopers as you can is the goal! And, finally, we've got F&D for the folks who just can't separate Star Wars from lightsabers, Jedi, and the Force, probably preferring aspects of the prequels and "Clone Wars" to the more 'space western' feel of much of the OT.

However, while EotE and AoR make sense in terms of the OT, F&D most certainly does not. It's very clear - based on the species, ships, and info included in the core rulebook - F&D is catering to the crowd who want to play Jedi in a prequels-era world. Yet F&D tries to insert itself into a timeframe in which Jedi should be "all but extinct." That fire has gone out of the universe; Vader is the last remnant of that "ancient religion."

So, for me, I see F&D as being quite 'sacrilegious' to the OT.

Sure, some folks will scream (LOUDLY ... *sigh*) that the EU has made it so there are TONS of Jedi and Force users around between Episodes III and IV. But that only serves to diminish the themes and triumphs of Luke and Anakin bringing balance back to the Force. Not to mention completely ignoring and being completely disrespectful of the dialogue from the OT. But, hey, your mileage may vary.

Now, again, I believe the goal of FFG's marketing gurus was to appeal to a specific core group of people for each line of SW rpg books. Because they have to have known there would be people like me out there - old-schoolers who wouldn't want any peanut butter in their chocolate - and others who only want to buy one line of books. So? Cool. I heartily choose EotE!

But now FFG needs to realize that someone who's only focused on and investing in EotE needs to be catered to with tech, vehicles, locations, and species that help populate the EotE world as seen in the films and series. And Devaronians - being canonically shown in the Mos Eisley cantina and smuggling on Lothal, in addition to being hugely-explored as clans of thieves, bounty hunters, and smugglers in the comics series - NEED to be included in an EotE book. And if that means doubling up with a description in a F&D book AND an EotE book? Then that's fine.

But for a species like the Devaronians to be ONLY included in a head-scratching F&D book? That's just NOT OK.

...unless FFG plans on creating a 'species book' that will serve as a general reference tool for ALL three lines.

However, while EotE and AoR make sense in terms of the OT, F&D most certainly does not. It's very clear - based on the species, ships, and info included in the core rulebook - F&D is catering to the crowd who want to play Jedi in a prequels-era world. Yet F&D tries to insert itself into a timeframe in which Jedi should be "all but extinct." That fire has gone out of the universe; Vader is the last remnant of that "ancient religion."

So, for me, I see F&D as being quite 'sacrilegious' to the OT.

Sure, some folks will scream (LOUDLY ... *sigh*) that the EU has made it so there are TONS of Jedi and Force users around between Episodes III and IV. But that only serves to diminish the themes and triumphs of Luke and Anakin bringing balance back to the Force. Not to mention completely ignoring and being completely disrespectful of the dialogue from the OT. But, hey, your mileage may vary.

The dialogue only applies to the Jedi, giving no limits on who and might be Force-sensitive. The core rulebook is pretty upfront on the idea that the characters in the vanilla F&D are not Jedi, just Force sensitives trying to find their own way in the galaxy, having only legends and fragments to go on. It's just as easy to make a group of characters composed of entirely non-Jedi characters, such as Gand Findsmen, Witches of Dathomir, Wardens of the Sky, Matukai, Jensaraai, among others.

And, finally, we've got F&D for the folks who just can't separate Star Wars from lightsabers, Jedi, and the Force, probably preferring aspects of the prequels and "Clone Wars" to the more 'space western' feel of much of the OT.

However, while EotE and AoR make sense in terms of the OT, F&D most certainly does not. It's very clear - based on the species, ships, and info included in the core rulebook - F&D is catering to the crowd who want to play Jedi in a prequels-era world. Yet F&D tries to insert itself into a timeframe in which Jedi should be "all but extinct." That fire has gone out of the universe; Vader is the last remnant of that "ancient religion."

Have you actually played Force and Destiny? Or hell ...... looked at the forum discussions? One of the most frequently discussed things is how un prequel like the "Jedi" characters are. The game is not built for the PT Clone Wars feel. It's built for Luke Skywaklers journey. You have to up the starting xp well past the recommended 150 of Knight Play in order to get a glimpse of Obi Wan in Ep I. F&D is 100% the OT take on the Force.

As for inserting it into something a time frame where they're extinct ..... again .... have you actually played the game? Or read the EU in which Jedi rain from the sky? Characters in F&D aren't Jedi, they are Force users seeking the secrets of the Jedi. Which in no way contradicts anything we've seen from the OT. Unless we are going to beleive that Vader was able to kill all Force users ever.

So, for me, I see F&D as being quite 'sacrilegious' to the OT.

Uh hu

Sure, some folks will scream (LOUDLY ... *sigh*) that the EU has made it so there are TONS of Jedi and Force users around between Episodes III and IV. But that only serves to diminish the themes and triumphs of Luke and Anakin bringing balance back to the Force. Not to mention completely ignoring and being completely disrespectful of the dialogue from the OT. But, hey, your mileage may vary.

Not really. By this logic there is no point to any rpg because the PC's stories will ultimately diminish the efforts of the canon charcters. Or that the PC's will never be as important as the movie canon characters. If you're going to play Star Wars though on some level, in order for the PC's to matter you have to make room in the canon story for them. Or toss out the canon story. EotE has more wiggle room than the rest but the moment we step into AoR we are stepping into the same problems you claim are only present in F&D.

Unless the goal is to remain a slave to canon, in which case .... carry on.

But now FFG needs to realize that someone who's only focused on and investing in EotE needs to be catered to with tech, vehicles, locations, and species that help populate the EotE world as seen in the films and series. And Devaronians - being canonically shown in the Mos Eisley cantina and smuggling on Lothal, in addition to being hugely-explored as clans of thieves, bounty hunters, and smugglers in the comics series - NEED to be included in an EotE book. And if that means doubling up with a description in a F&D book AND an EotE book? Then that's fine.

So basically because FFG has failed to tailor their line to suite your needs they have failed to realizes that they need to populate EotE.

Honestly nothing NEEDS to be included in any given line. Unless we are asking FFG to just churn out uninspired nonsense I expect them to take a look at whats in canon and seeing how they can freshen it up a bit. Granted we fall into Blackbird's damned if they do damned if they don't situation for FFG but I'd rather them put a new spin on something than slavishly recreate the Mos Eisley cantina for EotE. Based on some of the general dialgue about Tatoonie dialogue I think a fair number of people are ready for more fresh ideas and less rehashing of old material for the "old school" crowd.

But for a species like the Devaronians to be ONLY included in a head-scratching F&D book? That's just NOT OK.

...unless FFG plans on creating a 'species book' that will serve as a general reference tool for ALL three lines.

I've yet to see a public statement from FFG declaring that the Devaronians are an F&D exclusive. So I'm not sure how you can say it's not ok. Some species have been reprinted across the lines. Some have not. Books are still being written.

But honestly they got a better treatment in F&D than they would have gotten had then ended up in a career book. And it's not that hard to get a friend who plays F&D to slide you the creature stats if you're just dead set on not buying a single F&D book. Seems like a lot of huffing and puffing for no real reason other than FFG has failed to cater to your personal needs.

This discussion would be best served in its own thread.

Or not had at all...

Or not had at all...

Yes, God forbid actually replying to a question with an honest, well-thought-out answer and opinion...

...or daring to make a personal criticism about something pertaining to Star Wars or FFG's business plan!!! (The horror!)

Defensive much?

Let's all "like" the Thought Police. Or post pictures of penguins instead.

Edit: I just really wish this place was a more free-flowing well of ideas. It seriously concerns me that every poster with a discerning or critical view is immediately 'trolled' out of existence... Or reported for not allowing some of you to wallow in your 'safe space.'

Or not had at all...

Yes, God forbid actually replying to a question with an honest, well-thought-out answer and opinion...

...or daring to make a personal criticism about something pertaining to Star Wars or FFG's business plan!!! (The horror!)

Defensive much?

Let's all "like" the Thought Police. Or post pictures of penguins instead.

Edit: I just really wish this place was a more free-flowing well of ideas. It seriously concerns me that every poster with a discerning or critical view is immediately 'trolled' out of existence... Or reported for not allowing some of you to wallow in your 'safe space.'

Ideas are not bulletproof. They are meant to be tested and tried.

Or post pictures of penguins instead.

I'm okay with this.

Or not had at all...

Yes, God forbid actually replying to a question with an honest, well-thought-out answer and opinion...

...or daring to make a personal criticism about something pertaining to Star Wars or FFG's business plan!!! (The horror!)

Defensive much?

Let's all "like" the Thought Police. Or post pictures of penguins instead.

Edit: I just really wish this place was a more free-flowing well of ideas. It seriously concerns me that every poster with a discerning or critical view is immediately 'trolled' out of existence... Or reported for not allowing some of you to wallow in your 'safe space.'

You passive aggressively insulted everyone who didn't view Star Wars the way you do and you expect people to really support your ideas?

So, for me, I see F&D as being quite 'sacrilegious' to the OT.

But that only serves to diminish the themes and triumphs of Luke and Anakin bringing balance back to the Force. Not to mention completely ignoring and being completely disrespectful of the dialogue from the OT.

That's one reason I like it so much!

Or post pictures of penguins instead.

Well, that sure told me!

Anyway, if you really want more free-flowing ideas, maybe ease off on the bad attitude and don't come in all guns blazing?

Most of the time this is a lot friendly place than most forums.

Well, maybe it is like the Alderanians. Almost all of them died but the off worlders survived.

If I might get back to my regular canon-bashing...

'The Long Arm of the Hutt' adventure says the following when the PCs travel to Geonosis to attend a party thrown by the bugs:

"Geonosis is a mere parsec’s travel from Tatooine, but the two planets have not had much to do with one another. The relative poverty of Tatooine and the relative isolationism of the Geonosians explains why, though

Teemo the Hutt plans to change matters. In the days before the rise of the Galactic Empire, Geonosis was a hive of activity. The insectile inhabitants of the planet designed and engineered several innovative types of military equipment. Most notoriously, the Baktoid Combat Automata B1 Battle Droid was manufactured by the Geonosians and widely used by separatist forces during the Clone Wars. The use of such droids is now frowned upon and the fortunes of the Geonosians have waned somewhat, though they are still regarded as innovators in the field of military hardware.

Outsiders often find Geonosian society difficult to understand, let alone penetrate. Approximately 99 billion Geonosians live on the planet, crowded into great hives that tower high in the sky and extend deep into the ground. Each hive is governed by a ruling council, though the Geonosians also recognize an aristocratic caste of dukes and archdukes. Rumors of Geonosian queens also abound, though little is known of them. Most Geonosians belong to a worker caste, though many belong to a stronger and more aggressive soldier caste. In recent years, the Geonosians have found themselves under the yoke of the Empire, though since the Battle of Yavin there have been reports of rebel activity on the planet and several minor insurrections against the Imperial authorities stationed there. It is not typical of Geonosians to take an interest in the black market, or to deal with criminal syndicates... not under their present compromised circumstances, anyway. However, two Geonosian Dukes, competitive rivals named Piddock and Dimmock, have made a tentative outreach to representatives of the galaxy’s foremost criminal organizations, willing to sell and smuggle Geonosian technology out from under the very noses of Imperial forces."

All that suggests a bit of a slump from their glory days, but if there are 99 billion of the things (12 times the number of humans on our own planet!) on Geonosis alone, I'd hardly call that 'genocide' or having their planet 'glassed'.

I'm sure the canon aficionados will find a loophole to say why they're still around (partying hard like it was BBY 1999 and selling top-grade hardware to fringers!), but I'll stick with FFG's take on things, thanks...

Or not had at all...

Yes, God forbid actually replying to a question with an honest, well-thought-out answer and opinion...

...or daring to make a personal criticism about something pertaining to Star Wars or FFG's business plan!!! (The horror!)

Defensive much?

Let's all "like" the Thought Police. Or post pictures of penguins instead.

Edit: I just really wish this place was a more free-flowing well of ideas. It seriously concerns me that every poster with a discerning or critical view is immediately 'trolled' out of existence... Or reported for not allowing some of you to wallow in your 'safe space.'

Come one dude, I was not in any way telling you not to voice your opinion. I was making a joke. Especially in the light of all the heavy handed discussions that went absolutely no where I thought that was pretty obvious.

Well, The Long Arm of the Hutts adventure is three years old and that Rebels episode with the latest information on the fate of Geonosis is only a couple of weeks old so of course FFGs information is not up-to-date.