Over the last few months I've seen the Twin Laser Turret, a card designed to have an easy time hitting agile ships, blamed for just about everything. It's even been blamed for killing the G1-A, a ship that isn't even out yet.

The Twin Laser Turret was designed to represent a gun very good at hitting but that did low damage: you could hit aces with it but its low damage hampered its utility against more powerful ships. The problem is that two damage is not low. Against any ship not doubling down on mitigation both shots are likely to hit, meaning massed Twin Lasers pump out 8 damage a turn. A pair of Twin Lasers pump out 4.

To survive the Twin Laser you either need crazy amounts of mitigation via the Ace + Palpatine archetype or to go for maximum hull for points (spamming B-wings. etc).

This leaves two agility, which lacks spammed health nor high agility, is mercilessly chewed apart. Firesprays, HWKs, Kihraxzes and the game's eponymous ship are ripe for the shredding. A weapon that was supposed to be a solution to high agility is highly effective agaisnt lower agility.

FFG's usual approach to a strong card is to release a counter, but Twin Laser Turret is excessively effective against so many things that it narrows the metagame. You still see all comers but high agility migitation (becoming called "Ace Wing") is growing to the point where people tire of it.

And I've seen this before.

An easily used and overly powerful addition to the game starts killing off other squads. There's a lot of hype over its power and as time goes on it becomes more and more controversial. Some will call it overpowered, others will defend it by saying that it has its counters and that you simply have to play better: it gets beaten so it's not invincible. However, squads that do not incorporate a way to deal with end up on average dying out, you're forced to consider how you'll deal with it. In the meantime, the list archetype best equipped to deal with this game element grows in prevalance to the point where it becomes itself maligned and hated.

You could be forgiven for being unsure if I was talking about Twin Laser Turret and Acewing there or if I was talking about the TIE phantom and the Fat Falcon.

The parallels are all there, from effect on the meta to polarized community reaction. And it leaves me wondering if the solution is not the typical approach of wait for a counter in a future wave, and instead to do to Attack of the TLT what was done to the Phantom Menace.

They were weary of it before release after seeing it appear so heavily they'll tone it down either by increasing the cost or something else clever.

Of course this will happen before empire gets a ship that could mount it because we can't have nice things

After playing with the TIE/x7 on the TIE/Df, just wait. Those things are beasts that will chew apart Y-Wings with TLTs. In the matches we played, it was near total domination by the TIE/D x7s. Hyper agile, virtually always with a Focus/Evade, and easily able to shoot out of range and then back in, very quickly.

Of course this will happen before empire gets a ship that could mount it because we can't have nice things

I'd rather be good at flying and lose than win because I brought a turret.

The fact that it hits trucks better than filthy ace mosquitoes is indeed a fail.

buuuuut then again you remember that in SW any gun is a pew-pew and it gets easier understood.

still, it's not TLT that began the acewing. and not TLT that can end it.

While 4 of them is a massive NPE, not as bad as Fat Turretwing. I'd rather face a TLT based list once or twice in an event than have to play 6 rounds, all of which are against fat Han or RAC.

Acewing is just fat turretwing without the turrets. Ordnance lists should be able to deal with most TLT lists and most Acewing lists, which should change the meta since you'll be able to throw 4 bombers down on the table and have a answers to both and not get screwed by matchups.

Well, Ordnance WILL blast TLT lists, and most likely DERP regeners before they regen, but won't do anything to dodgers.

because what use is a missile if some cep[tor will just eat that buckeload of dice from one and won't be shot at by 3 others?

They were weary of it before release after seeing it appear so heavily they'll tone it down either by increasing the cost or something else clever.

Of course this will happen before empire gets a ship that could mount it because we can't have nice things

IIRC, MJ posted in some other thread that Defenders with new titles have extremely high efficiency. If Defenders end up murdering TLTs(and all other jousters in the process), it's likely TLT hate will turn into Defender hate.

The thing about TIE defenders though is they're pretty vanilla mechanically. The Old phantom was nigh unhittable and super reactionary, the Fat Falcon had up to triple migitation, Palpaces has that and crazy action economy and TLT is up to four R3 autoblasters.

The thing about TIE defenders though is they're pretty vanilla mechanically. The Old phantom was nigh unhittable and super reactionary, the Fat Falcon had up to triple migitation, Palpaces has that and crazy action economy and TLT is up to four R3 autoblasters.

DO WANT!

Over the last few months I've seen the Twin Laser Turret, a card designed to have an easy time hitting agile ships, blamed for just about everything. It's even been blamed for killing the G1-A, a ship that isn't even out yet.

I think you mistook their purpose. Their purpose was to deal with low agility, high HP ships with ways to boost their defense. Not the high agility aces.

Over the last few months I've seen the Twin Laser Turret, a card designed to have an easy time hitting agile ships, blamed for just about everything. It's even been blamed for killing the G1-A, a ship that isn't even out yet.

I think you mistook their purpose. Their purpose was to deal with low agility, high HP ships with ways to boost their defense. Not the high agility aces.

Lorewise he's right, it's a fast-firing "shake that ceptor off your tail" gun

not a pirate's favourite "WHACK THAT FREIGHTER" gun

but here its completely the opposite xD

again with this thread

still not seeing the so called menace that TLTs represent. Even worlds only contained them in what appeared to be very reasonable numbers, and locally it's been nothing but brobots and palp aces (finally one crackswarm just yesterday)

whatever TLT made obsolete wasn't terribly viable to begin with because, as pointed out, we've been in this same situation in every wave from Wave 1-3's Tie swarm to Wave 4's phantom to Wave 5-6's fatass only club and now finally Wave 7, aka the most diverse the game has ever been

TLT is perhaps one of the most inflated cards on the forums (and that's saying something), responsible really only for making PS 3+ more useful than just a predator dodge. Stuff like Black Squadrons or Omegas or even the G1-A's PS 3 Freelancer murder the low PS TLT.

doesn't mean the G1-A might still be DOA, but I'd bet you money that's due to aces or the incoming Jumpmasters (3 of them which will have no problems murdering G1-As and Y-wings alike in a single torp volley)

again with this thread

still not seeing the so called menace that TLTs represent. Even worlds only contained them in what appeared to be very reasonable numbers, and locally it's been nothing but brobots and palp aces (finally one crackswarm just yesterday)

whatever TLT made obsolete wasn't terribly viable to begin with because, as pointed out, we've been in this same situation in every wave from Wave 1-3's Tie swarm to Wave 4's phantom to Wave 5-6's fatass only club and now finally Wave 7, aka the most diverse the game has ever been

TLT is perhaps one of the most inflated cards on the forums (and that's saying), responsible really only for making PS 3+ more useful than just a predator dodge. Stuff like Black Squadrons or Omegas or even the G1-A's PS 3 Freelancer murder the low PS TLT.

doesn't mean the G1-A might still be DOA, but I'd bet you money that's due to aces or the incoming Jumpmasters (3 of them which will have no problems murdering G1-As and Y-wings alike in a single torp volley)

I brought my 3 Tie Fo's and Gunner FCS whisper. I barley lost to a new player who was running Chewie and 2 TLT Ywings. It came down to Whisper and Chewie, I brought Chewie down to half health, so I could potentially get a modified win by running, but My green dice fell short. I'm not blaming TLT's at all, I'm just going to say they are hard to deal with without a Hard Counter. Luckily Whisper and Zeta Leader got in close and shredded them, but by then it was too late, I had lost too much HP on my other ships, and Chewie was still at large. Are TLT's overpowered? maybe. Do you need to bring somthing to counter them? I would say yes.

seems more like you lost to chewie than the TLTs there

seems more like you lost to chewie than the TLTs there

It was weird really, the Guy flew Chewie around and kept landing on asteroids on the beginning. The TLT's did most of the DMG to my Ties. I'm not comlaining that I lost to TLTs, i'm just saying they are difficult to deal with unless you have a counter. My counter (Whisper) was just too slow in getting to the fight. and to be clear, I didn't lost to TLT's I lost to my opponent. a game of Xwing is a game of Xwing, regardless of what's played.

Wait till you see how Tractor Beam affects the game.

This is no longer a game I recommend to people.

Using a weapon with a firing arc (unless you get a shenanigan allowing you to fire twice) is pointless.

Tractor beam will make flying pointless.

Wait till you see how Tractor Beam affects the game.

This is no longer a game I recommend to people.

Using a weapon with a firing arc (unless you get a shenanigan allowing you to fire twice) is pointless.

Tractor beam will make flying pointless.

Brobots for example prove you wrong on both accounts.

Hopefully so will Dengar

I brought my 3 Tie Fo's and Gunner FCS whisper. I barley lost to a new player who was running Chewie and 2 TLT Ywings. It came down to Whisper and Chewie, I brought Chewie down to half health, so I could potentially get a modified win by running, but My green dice fell short. I'm not blaming TLT's at all, I'm just going to say they are hard to deal with without a Hard Counter. Luckily Whisper and Zeta Leader got in close and shredded them, but by then it was too late, I had lost too much HP on my other ships, and Chewie was still at large. Are TLT's overpowered? maybe. Do you need to bring somthing to counter them? I would say yes.

I wouldn't have been upset if all the people I played against were more experienced, but half of them had just learned to play within the last 2-4 weeks. Multiple TLTs in a list make it a little too easy for new players to make repeated mistakes or fly lazy and still pull out a win ... and that's really annoying if you are a more experienced player and keep losing to newbies with TLTs. And the fact that EVERY list I fought had multiple TLTs was just insult to injury.

Yes, I know the main counter to TLTs is to get into range 1, but that doesn't help with K-wings and if there are 2-4 TLTs in a list then 1-3 are probably still going to take their back-to-back shots each round.

I have since created a swarm build with autothrusters and I've been testing it against different TLT lists with friends. The problem with autothrusters is that it only works on ships with a native boost and even with autothrusters you can take multiple hits each round if there are 2-4 TLTs firing at you and your green dice aren't cooperating.

Consistent damage every round kills ships.

Sure, I fly the occasional list with multiple TLTs as well, but I would like to be able to fly a wider variety of lists at tournaments with a wider variety of ships that won't "consistently" lose to multi-TLT lists. I can get over consistently losing to more experienced players, or losing to players who fly better and capitalize on any mistakes I make. I can even get over "occasionally" losing to a new player with a multi-TLT list. It just isn't fun if 50 percent or more of the lists I want to fly always lose whenever I go up against a list with multiple TLTs.

I don't think it's healthy for this game if the variety of competitive lists at tournaments is limited to, "Will this list do well against multiple TLTs?

It's okay for a certain type of list to do well against multiple other list types, but when a build type (like multiple TLTs) consistently "devastates" such a wide variety or majority of other lists then we've got a problem.

I'm not saying lists with multiple TLTs can't be beaten ... I'm saying that right now we have a narrow range of lists and tactics that "consistently" defeat multiple TLTs without relying on the luck of the dice or random chance.

Oh, and I know aggressively flown Brobots with autothrusters consistently do well against multiple TLTs. But you are making my point for me if your answer to the dominance of multi-TLT lists is, "Just fly Brobots with autothrusters."

I'm not saying lists with multiple TLTs can't be beaten ... I'm saying that right now we have a narrow range of lists and tactics that "consistently" defeat multiple TLTs without relying on the luck of the dice or random chance.

Are TLT's overpowered? maybe. Do you need to bring somthing to counter them? I would say yes.

This is the main point I'm getting at here. It's beatable, but so was the TIE phantom. It's doing the same thing.

I don't think it's healthy for this game if the variety of competitive lists at tournaments is limited to, "Will this list do well against multiple TLTs?

you're not going to win much of anything if you're limiting yourself to that

for example, obsidian swarm wrecks TLTs

then you run into palp aces and can't hit **** between the arc dodging and green dice. This is why you instead go crackswarm, in the hopes that crackshot will help punch through their defenses

TLTs are merely a minor part of all the lists you have to be able to deal with. The actual list goes more like

• Can I deal with high PS aces with tons of dice modifications + high agility?
• Can I deal with high damage brobots with tons of dice modifications?
• Can I deal with rebel regeneration with tons of dice modifications?
• Can I deal with dice independent stress effects assisted by TLTs?

and

Can I deal with just TLTs?

which is somewhere at the bottom

fixating on TLTs is a good way to not improve, because they're nowhere near the only powerful thing in the game and they're nowhere near the most polarizing.

A good way to deal with TLTs (and brobots to a degree) would be to create a card that limits or a single target from making multiple attacks against a defender. I'm not a good wordsmith, but something to the effect of, "After you defend an attack, the attacker may perform no other attacks against you this round." Make it cost 2 points and slap it in the modification slot. If desired, put limitations on it that limit it to small ships or ships with less than 3 agility. The mod will be great against gunner and TLTs, but worhtless against most else.

A good way to deal with TLTs (and brobots to a degree) would be to create a card that limits or a single target from making multiple attacks against a defender. I'm not a good wordsmith, but something to the effect of, "After you defend an attack, the attacker may perform no other attacks against you this round." Make it cost 2 points and slap it in the modification slot. If desired, put limitations on it that limit it to small ships or ships with less than 3 agility. The mod will be great against gunner and TLTs, but worhtless against most else.

Which would require purchasing lots of copies of that card, closes the mod slot when TLTs have to be considered. There was lots of silver bullet discussion last time too.

I agree that TLT isn't the only powerful thing in the game, but for me they're the most ANNOYING right next to regen.

TLTs, in my opinion, also encourage lazy gameplay. With non turret/repositioning ships you have to account for where your opponent might go, where your other ships will be, and whether or not you will have a shot. TLTs completely ignore that, and can just run away while shooting lasers out their behind while focusing the whole time. Or almost any turret.

Yes, I have beaten TLT heavy lists before, but I have to give the credit to lucky dice rolls for me and unlucky for my opponent instead of skill on my part.