There were not 3 official accusations of dice issues. Only one. The others were just offhand comments that added up later. But it was made officially to a TO and needed to be addressed like any other "judge!" call during the event.

I would say as a bit of unsolicited advice. Unless that one person had something to back up the claim then player 1 should of never been asked to swap out dice.

Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean a TO has to take action, not without something to back it up.

I'm not saying the TO did something wrong mind you, just saying how I would of dealt with it... But I wasn't there, and a lot of nuances are missed that way.

No one does. Especially over a game. But, the yelling clearly indicates that either group wasn't quite willing to let it go.

Correct. The yeller was the same person who, a week before, started a thread in the event on facebook complaining about how regionals was going to be ran. When I posted clarification, he just straight up ignored my responses. Once someone else (my fiancé) shut him down and explained, he then proceeded to call him, and another player, by name and say he was going to "bring some damage".

This same player asked TO1 if she "even played the game".

We have tried the best we can to mitigate the damage. It appears we failed in that regard.

There's no way I would have agreed to switch dice. That's bowing to pressure when you've done nothing wrong. It's lending legitimacy to baseless claims.

If you've done nothing wrong, then you really have no reason to not switch dice. Adamantly refusing like that won't reflect well on you.

The best solution is just for both players to share dice during games. Easy solution.

This was the first time this group had left their comfortable surroundings and discovered that it's a very big world out there. There is a very clear big fish small pond syndrome here. Again, the ring leader of the group was stirring up trouble WEEKS ahead of time telling them how they should run the event (directly contrary to FFG guidelines btw), why their impressive venue shouldn't have regionals etc. All because he had run some local tournaments. When he walked in, and said to the T.O. in his mean girls esque tone, "have you even ever played xwing? pfft" I wish I was standing there so I could ask "have you?". Straight up sexist comment because he probably assumed a female T.O. was helpless.

Yeah, there is clear evidence that he is trying to become a "big deal" in X-wing. He was totally involved in Pro Magic, duuude. Sadly, X-wing's growth means we get more of the bad batches. I just hope someone is not nearly as bad as they appear online at my Regional.

No one does. Especially over a game. But, the yelling clearly indicates that either group wasn't quite willing to let it go.

Correct. The yeller was the same person who, a week before, started a thread in the event on facebook complaining about how regionals was going to be ran. When I posted clarification, he just straight up ignored my responses. Once someone else (my fiancé) shut him down and explained, he then proceeded to call him, and another player, by name and say he was going to "bring some damage".

This same player asked TO1 if she "even played the game".

We have tried the best we can to mitigate the damage. It appears we failed in that regard.

Well, I think the "damage" is being received as it should, once more info comes out. You did your best. FFG's documents aren't exactly clear on what to do in this situation.

No one does. Especially over a game. But, the yelling clearly indicates that either group wasn't quite willing to let it go.

Correct. The yeller was the same person who, a week before, started a thread in the event on facebook complaining about how regionals was going to be ran. When I posted clarification, he just straight up ignored my responses. Once someone else (my fiancé) shut him down and explained, he then proceeded to call him, and another player, by name and say he was going to "bring some damage".

This same player asked TO1 if she "even played the game".

We have tried the best we can to mitigate the damage. It appears we failed in that regard.

You're not the ones who made it loud in-store or put it on the Internet, it would seem.

That is true. So far, we have found three separate postings about the incident. It's troubling, to say the least. The other TO and I tried to run a fair and fun event for all - even the numerous spectators we had during the day! Ultimately, that's all we can do.

If you've done nothing wrong, then you really have no reason to not switch dice.

Sure you do. Maybe you just don't want other people using your dice, or want to use other peoples dice. I mean according to your logic I shouldn't object if a cop wants to search my house, after all if I have nothing to hide, I shouldn't object. But if I do object then I'm apparently guilty of something.

The best solution is just for both players to share dice during games.

If someone doesn't want to share dice, they are well within their right to not do so.

Yeah, there are plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to have stranger's hands on your personal property. Especially with gamers.

Yeah, there are plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to have stranger's hands on your personal property.

Could you imagine a mild germaphobe, someone who is ok being in public but still won't touch somethings having to share dice? They'd go through a whole bottle of purell a game.

I've had some hot dice games, and some cold ones too - like the SC finals game this past Saturday where I didn't roll a single evade the whole game (I did manage some focus rolls, but not when I had a token >:-\ ). I lost. Surprise, right?

At a different event I had a game wherein my opponent started loudly declaring how good my red dice were. What he (a newish player) wasn't taking into account was I was always target locked and focused. As stated above: the red dice get 'hotter' when you have modifications in play. I swapped the dice I was using for others from my bag, with the same results. I offered to let my opponent use my dice, which he declined. The game was conceded a few turns later.

I have offered to share my dice on a number of occasions, but as stated above, I would not go in on a 'redistribution pool'. I wouldn't even be keen on that with my brother LOL.

There were not 3 official accusations of dice issues. Only one. The others were just offhand comments that added up later. But it was made officially to a TO and needed to be addressed like any other "judge!" call during the event.

I would say as a bit of unsolicited advice. Unless that one person had something to back up the claim then player 1 should of never been asked to swap out dice.

Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean a TO has to take action, not without something to back it up.

I'm not saying the TO did something wrong mind you, just saying how I would of dealt with it... But I wasn't there, and a lot of nuances are missed that way.

but you see, when the dice were shown to the TO and rolled they did the freak thing of coming up all paint on multiple rolls. Yes, this is very easily explained in the anomalies of dice luck. He wasn't made to switch dice. He was in no way judged as cheating by the TOs. In fact they told him they didn't feel he was. He was told he could continue to play with the dice he brought and nothing would be done as nothing could be proven. It was honestly a friendly gesture to try to make sure no one could talk behind his back post tournament and try to tarnish his wins. The options given by the TOs were 1) continue like nothing happened. 2)swap dice with a new set. 3)Share dice. He chose to swap dice. Unfortunately the whole accusation upset him, which I understand and wish there had been something we could have done to not have that happen at the time.

No one should touch another players stuff without asking.

And if a TO asks you to use new dice, use them. Heck I'd ask if I can keep them! Its not that big of deal.

This was the first time this group had left their comfortable surroundings and discovered that it's a very big world out there. There is a very clear big fish small pond syndrome here. Again, the ring leader of the group was stirring up trouble WEEKS ahead of time telling them how they should run the event (directly contrary to FFG guidelines btw), why their impressive venue shouldn't have regionals etc. All because he had run some local tournaments. When he walked in, and said to the T.O. in his mean girls esque tone, "have you even ever played xwing? pfft" I wish I was standing there so I could ask "have you?". Straight up sexist comment because he probably assumed a female T.O. was helpless.

Yeah, there is clear evidence that he is trying to become a "big deal" in X-wing. He was totally involved in Pro Magic, duuude. Sadly, X-wing's growth means we get more of the bad batches. I just hope someone is not nearly as bad as they appear online at my Regional.

No one does. Especially over a game. But, the yelling clearly indicates that either group wasn't quite willing to let it go.

Correct. The yeller was the same person who, a week before, started a thread in the event on facebook complaining about how regionals was going to be ran. When I posted clarification, he just straight up ignored my responses. Once someone else (my fiancé) shut him down and explained, he then proceeded to call him, and another player, by name and say he was going to "bring some damage".

This same player asked TO1 if she "even played the game".

We have tried the best we can to mitigate the damage. It appears we failed in that regard.

Well, I think the "damage" is being received as it should, once more info comes out. You did your best. FFG's documents aren't exactly clear on what to do in this situation.

Ah, and just like that, a moment of clarity. Why am I not surprised.

but you see, when the dice were shown to the TO and rolled they did the freak thing of coming up all paint on multiple rolls.

I get that, and I'm by no means trying to claim the TO did anything wrong here. Just that as a monday morning quarterback I would of done things differently.

He was in no way judged as cheating by the TOs. In fact they told him they didn't feel he was.

But that's the point... Even if the TO's weren't someone was. Being accused of cheating is never a good thing, no matter who's doing it. Again as a monday morning QB, I wouldn't even approached him. But then again if things were as bad as they kinda sound, perhaps it would of gotten to him anyway, in which case what the TO did may of actually made things better.

Yeah, there are plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to have stranger's hands on your personal property.

Could you imagine a mild germaphobe, someone who is ok being in public but still won't touch somethings having to share dice? They'd go through a whole bottle of purell a game.

Germaphobe aside. My son has a peanut and tree nut allergy so he has to be careful and i certainly wouldn't want anyone else using his dice. We let the tournament know and sometimes the TO's will let everyone know so that they either use their own asteroids that are the same as my sons or tell him where to place his. My son's allergy isn't a smell/touch allergy but he has to ingest it which also includes possible rubbing his nose or eyes which could cause the reaction. He has his epipen with him at all times.

Yes let's explain away the rudeness of the entire thing. There is nothing friendly about accusing someone of the most unlikely things ever which is making loaded X-wing dice. The time and economics and manufacturing is crazy difficult. Crazy. The accuser should have been thrown out of the tournament immediately. Anyone says something about dice you know what to tell them. Nuff said.

Guy got into his head regardless if he kept the dice, switch, used the same, etc. Jedi mind trick and it was wrong. Worse it was ridiculous. Nobody has ever mad loaded dice that could perform by increasing the odds more than 20% at best (melting) and not be seen upon casual inspection. Any dice melted to not be likely notice might provide a 5-10% advantage.

This dice loading stuff is such a urban legend.

There were not 3 official accusations of dice issues. Only one. The others were just offhand comments that added up later. But it was made officially to a TO and needed to be addressed like any other "judge!" call during the event.

I would say as a bit of unsolicited advice. Unless that one person had something to back up the claim then player 1 should of never been asked to swap out dice.

Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean a TO has to take action, not without something to back it up.

I'm not saying the TO did something wrong mind you, just saying how I would of dealt with it... But I wasn't there, and a lot of nuances are missed that way.

but you see, when the dice were shown to the TO and rolled they did the freak thing of coming up all paint on multiple rolls. Yes, this is very easily explained in the anomalies of dice luck. He wasn't made to switch dice. He was in no way judged as cheating by the TOs. In fact they told him they didn't feel he was. He was told he could continue to play with the dice he brought and nothing would be done as nothing could be proven. It was honestly a friendly gesture to try to make sure no one could talk behind his back post tournament and try to tarnish his wins. The options given by the TOs were 1) continue like nothing happened. 2)swap dice with a new set. 3)Share dice. He chose to swap dice. Unfortunately the whole accusation upset him, which I understand and wish there had been something we could have done to not have that happen at the time.

Again as a monday morning QB, I wouldn't even approached him.

As a Monday morning QB, let's say you don't approach him and he goes on to win the day with a clear head. You run the risk of the accuser going on about how the TO didn't address a formal complaint. It seems the accuser was gone by the time it resolved anyway, but the TOs didn't know that he would be. Personally, as a volunteer for Dice Masters events at the same store (and our events have been waaaaaay smaller; half our regular players are friends) I would be more concerned with having someone report to WizKids that I didn't take their concern seriously and now someone they believe to be a cheater (rightly or not, and forgetting about the getting handsy with others' belongings) won out because of it.

The accuser should have been thrown out of the tournament immediately.

No someone should never be penalized for bringing something to the TO's attention, unless it's being done for nefarious reasons. Which is going to be fairly hard to prove unless it becomes a pattern of behavior.

When we punish someone for making an accusation, the cheaters win, because then people will be afraid to say anything.

I'd say... sorry that happened to you but anybody could get this accusation (and that's too strong a word) and you have to accept a dice change and then let it be, I believe you should have been able to not let that get to you.

In fact, I think any top games should be:

dice provided by venue

damage deck provided by venue

Again as a monday morning QB, I wouldn't even approached him.

As a Monday morning QB, let's say you don't approach him and he goes on to win the day with a clear head. You run the risk of the accuser going on about how the TO didn't address a formal complaint. It seems the accuser was gone by the time it resolved anyway, but the TOs didn't know that he would be. Personally, as a volunteer for Dice Masters events at the same store (and our events have been waaaaaay smaller; half our regular players are friends) I would be more concerned with having someone report to WizKids that I didn't take their concern seriously and now someone they believe to be a cheater (rightly or not, and forgetting about the getting handsy with others' belongings) won out because of it.

But the reported concern could have been handled differently. As mentioned, a casual observation perhaps should have been the first step. TOs should see for themselves. Then address the issue, if necessary. Just because someone makes an accusation doesn't make it true. Or not true. But someone should never be judged without supporting evidence.

You run the risk of the accuser going on about how the TO didn't address a formal complaint.

Not really, because no is an answer. Just because someone makes an accusation doesn't mean the TO has to, or even should approach the accused and make them aware of it. Most times you're better off watching the player to see if you can spot anything going on.

I'm not saying the TO should of done nothing, and given the situation the TO may have made the best of a bad situation. I don't doubt they did what they thought was best. But all else being equal I wouldn't of asked the person to switch dice based on a single complaint.

But it seems clear that perhaps not all else was equal.

but you see, when the dice were shown to the TO and rolled they did the freak thing of coming up all paint on multiple rolls.

I get that, and I'm by no means trying to claim the TO did anything wrong here. Just that as a monday morning quarterback I would of done things differently.

He was in no way judged as cheating by the TOs. In fact they told him they didn't feel he was.

But that's the point... Even if the TO's weren't someone was. Being accused of cheating is never a good thing, no matter who's doing it. Again as a monday morning QB, I wouldn't even approached him. But then again if things were as bad as they kinda sound, perhaps it would of gotten to him anyway, in which case what the TO did may of actually made things better.

Yea it was a very tough call to make. You don't want to accuse someone of something you can't really test for properly but as a TO you also can't brush off a complaint from a player when you can't validate or disprove their issue either. Hence the offer to swap or share dice. We are gamers so we know some people have superstitions about their dice (I have some silly ones myself) and the pool idea isn't really a popular choice from a lot of players as well as many players don't want someone else touching their dice or touching someone else's. We figured clean new neutral starter set dice was the best alternative. did we take the best action. Sadly, the world may never know. But I doubt we could find one that could make everyone happy in this situation. That's why I sent a note to FFG organized play to see if they can clarify what to do in these cases should they arise again. That way there can be no questions again.

did we take the best action. Sadly, the world may never know. But I doubt we could find one that could make everyone happy in this situation.

I will say based on what I've seen here... I'm inclined to think that at the very least you and the other TO's made the best decision they could.

I may not done the same thing but I by no means want to make it sound like I think the TO's didn't do the best they could, or that my decision would actually have been better.

but you see, when the dice were shown to the TO and rolled they did the freak thing of coming up all paint on multiple rolls.

I get that, and I'm by no means trying to claim the TO did anything wrong here. Just that as a monday morning quarterback I would of done things differently.

He was in no way judged as cheating by the TOs. In fact they told him they didn't feel he was.

But that's the point... Even if the TO's weren't someone was. Being accused of cheating is never a good thing, no matter who's doing it. Again as a monday morning QB, I wouldn't even approached him. But then again if things were as bad as they kinda sound, perhaps it would of gotten to him anyway, in which case what the TO did may of actually made things better.

Yea it was a very tough call to make. You don't want to accuse someone of something you can't really test for properly but as a TO you also can't brush off a complaint from a player when you can't validate or disprove their issue either. Hence the offer to swap or share dice. We are gamers so we know some people have superstitions about their dice (I have some silly ones myself) and the pool idea isn't really a popular choice from a lot of players as well as many players don't want someone else touching their dice or touching someone else's. We figured clean new neutral starter set dice was the best alternative. did we take the best action. Sadly, the world may never know. But I doubt we could find one that could make everyone happy in this situation. That's why I sent a note to FFG organized play to see if they can clarify what to do in these cases should they arise again. That way there can be no questions again.

Please let us know if/when you hear back from them on this. A lot of us TO's wouldn't mind an official answer on this. I would be hesitant myself to ask someone to use alternate dice as that is admitting that you think they are cheating.

This could have easily been mitigated by ffg themselves by just providing the transparent dice with X-wing. Then everyone can see the bubble in them and see that there is nothing else there. I have a precise golf scale from my club building days but I won't bring that with me just to weigh dice 0on the off chance that someone complains. I mean we don't even know what their weight should be?

I would like to clear some things up being brought up to somehow bring my character into question. I HAVE made comments regarding the ability of the TOs to advocate over an event like this and even less so at a Regional event, but their response to a situation like this is directly attributable to their ability to handle those situations. They are ultimately responsible and they must also be able to take the direct comments regarding their handling of the event, for better or for worse.

1) I made some tongue in cheek comments about "doing damage" at this event in a previous thread to a person who going to attend. It was a simple machismo chest bump and had little meaning and certainly no ill will to anyone. Apparently people take things real seriously in the internet world of Facebook. Sorry.

2) I "complained" about them ding 75 minute rounds. Actually, I "suggested" they run 60 minute rounds, because at the time I was unaware that FFG was mandating 75 minute rounds. I conceded once I learned of this policy.

3) I had some vendetta against Get Your Fun On. Totally false. Marc, the owner, was very quick to accommodate me with a table to record matches on. Both TOs were very friendly the entire event. Everyone I encountered that day was very friendly and it seems like a great place to play at.

4) I "yelled at the TOs" following the conclusion of the event. This is not true either and I am hoping Marc has audio in the room with his security cams to disprove this. The room is a large concrete room, so perhaps my voice traveled (I have a solid speaking voice as I do public speaking) but I NEVER directed yelling or anger to the TOs. I have a wife and would never disrespect a woman, but I did explain myself directly and bluntly.

As I was breaking down my camera gear, a TO came and asked how it went. I made a sarcastic comment about "Well, I guess my friend was using loaded dice, right?" and she took that as an insult apparently. I continued by telling her I would be reporting the event to FFG OP and that is when she said "Oh really?" and screamed (very loudly) across the hall to the other TO to come over. I was not engaging at all. I bluntly told her I was reporting and she engaged. She called over the extra person to keep it going.

Once the 2 TOs were present, they asked what they did wrong and why I was upset. This is when the conversation got direct as I pointed out that my friend was the only person singled out all day because comments were made by her husband and fiancee and a local player. The store owner acknowledges in his own rendition of the events that NO ONE complained. They were simply comments made about "hot dice" and it was not until a third party, no longer in the event made the comment of "you should check out these dice" was the issue ever even questioned.

However, we were told explicitly, THREE PEOPLE COMPLAINED about his dice and that is why they HAD TO ACT. Within a couple minutes Marc (store owner) came over and now the three of them were engaging me in the same conversation. Maybe my voice raised to over speak the 3 talking, I don't know, maybe my voice naturally raised. It was not out of disrespect.

I will openly apologize the the TOs and their husbands if they feel I yelled at them, but I was making a point and I had 3 people to talk over to do it.

Of course there are multiple stories to be heard here. The TOs rendition, the players, mine, but the arc remains the same.

A few people commented and the TOs decided they HAD TO ACT. I think this is the overall failure of this situation as no action was directly warranted. Considering the circumstance of not being able to directly make a decision based on fact (whether the dice were loaded or not) there was nothing to be gained by addressing my friend and certainly the only thing which could be construed is that he was being accused of cheating.

The only fair solution was to do nothing or simply bring a set of dice to the table and say, we would like both people involved to use this set of dice for this match. I think the overwhelming responses in this thread support this solution and the fact that nothing should have been done.

The only real supporters to the situation have been the husband and fiancee of the TOs involved. Even the store owner has not explicitly supported the outcome. So remove all of the character assassination and personal emotion from it, you are left with a crappy ending to a nice event.

I still do not think the TOs were objective enough nor prepared to handle this situation. They let the influence of the people they know affect their judgement in how to handle the situation.

If they overheard some random stranger mention someones dice being "hot", would they have acted the same?

But the reported concern could have been handled differently. As mentioned, a casual observation perhaps should have been the first step. TOs should see for themselves. Then address the issue, if necessary. Just because someone makes an accusation doesn't make it true. Or not true. But someone should never be judged without supporting evidence.

A casual observation was the first step. The TO was shown a set of dice rolled multiple times that came up all paint each time. If they had come up with more normal looking rolls it could easily be dismissed. At this point a concern was officially raised to the TO. She observed an anomaly in a handful of rolls. We know there is no easy way proven to load dice mechanically and invisibly except for face changes (which would be really obvious in this case). The rolls witnessed by the judge do not prove tampering but unfortunately they also can not disprove it like some blanks coming up would. How would you feel as a player if you felt you concern about a set of dice and voiced it to a TO, rolled the dice several times and had all paint show in front of the TO, and was told by the TO "sorry can't do anything as we can't prove anything".

If that player then came here and laid out what they had happen, we would then be here instead discussing why the TOs screwed up and didn't force a dice share/swap/etc. Until FFG lays out there official standard for handling these situations it will remain a no win situation for the TOs. Someone will always walk away upset about either direction taken.