There's two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere there in the middle usually. I believe the store posted that they didn't touch his stuff.

'The store' might not have. But one of the OP's accusers alone, and then in the company of a TO, did before involving the OP himself.

But frankly, it doesn't matter who did it. At the end of the day, somebody's property was rifled through without their prior knowledge or consent. If it requires law enforcement officials a warrant to undertake such activity - otherwise it constitutes an illegal search - at the very least, some random at an X-Wing event can have the common decency to speak to the person whose property it is first.

Your absolutely right. So why didn't the player in question approach the other player, the TO's or anyone else about someone going through his stuff? Like I said the TO was called over after the fact and was not aware she was seeing someone else's dice being investigated. The player was RIGHT there. It's a big room but his stuff was in open sight of him. He even said he watched it happen.

Talk about blaming the victim.

The player in question should never have been put in the position of having to approach somebody - including a TO - and ask them why they were going through their stuff. Yes, he saw it happen; as it was happening without him being approached or asked first. How are you not understanding that bit?

It was poorly handled. End of story.

There's two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere there in the middle usually. I believe the store posted that they didn't touch his stuff.

'The store' might not have. But one of the OP's accusers alone, and then in the company of a TO, did before involving the OP himself.

But frankly, it doesn't matter who did it. At the end of the day, somebody's property was rifled through without their prior knowledge or consent. If it requires law enforcement officials a warrant to undertake such activity - otherwise it constitutes an illegal search - at the very least, some random at an X-Wing event can have the common decency to speak to the person whose property it is first.

Your absolutely right. So why didn't the player in question approach the other player, the TO's or anyone else about someone going through his stuff? Like I said the TO was called over after the fact and was not aware she was seeing someone else's dice being investigated. The player was RIGHT there. It's a big room but his stuff was in open sight of him. He even said he watched it happen.

Talk about blaming the victim.

The player in question should never have been put in the position of having to approach somebody - including a TO - and ask them why they were going through their stuff. Yes, he saw it happen; as it was happening without him being approached or asked first. How are you not understanding that bit?

It was poorly handled. End of story.

I'm not blaming the "victim", but if I saw someone going through my things I'd bring it to someones attention immediately. His inaction could have been for reasons, such as not wanting to get confrontational. I get it.

And like I mentioned earlier, the player that went through his stuff was in the wrong for doing so. Never said he had the right to.

TOs, especially volunteer TOs, are not there expecting to make calls of property tampering, cheating, and other controversial issues, because one would assume grown men would not let it come down to that.

If this is how it's going to be from now on maybe FFG can provide more information for TOs on how to handle these difficult situations instead of having them make decisions on the fly (there have been SEVERAL responses that there is a ruling on this kind of claim about dice, yet no one has provided any source).

In the end, the situation has been addressed, documented, and I'm sure FFG will be involved. It is not a situation anyone is taking lightly, I can assure you that.

Fair enough. Let's leave it at that.

There's two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere there in the middle usually. I believe the store posted that they didn't touch his stuff.

'The store' might not have. But one of the OP's accusers alone, and then in the company of a TO, did before involving the OP himself.

But frankly, it doesn't matter who did it. At the end of the day, somebody's property was rifled through without their prior knowledge or consent. If it requires law enforcement officials a warrant to undertake such activity - otherwise it constitutes an illegal search - at the very least, some random at an X-Wing event can have the common decency to speak to the person whose property it is first.

Your absolutely right. So why didn't the player in question approach the other player, the TO's or anyone else about someone going through his stuff? Like I said the TO was called over after the fact and was not aware she was seeing someone else's dice being investigated. The player was RIGHT there. It's a big room but his stuff was in open sight of him. He even said he watched it happen.

Talk about blaming the victim.

The player in question should never have been put in the position of having to approach somebody - including a TO - and ask them why they were going through their stuff. Yes, he saw it happen; as it was happening without him being approached or asked first. How are you not understanding that bit?

It was poorly handled. End of story.

I'm not blaming the "victim", but if I saw someone going through my things I'd bring it to someones attention immediately. His inaction could have been for reasons, such as not wanting to get confrontational. I get it.

And like I mentioned earlier, the player that went through his stuff was in the wrong for doing so. Never said he had the right to.

TOs, especially volunteer TOs, are not there expecting to make calls of property tampering, cheating, and other controversial issues, because one would assume grown men would not let it come down to that.

If this is how it's going to be from now on maybe FFG can provide more information for TOs on how to handle these difficult situations instead of having them make decisions on the fly (there have been SEVERAL responses that there is a ruling on this kind of claim about dice, yet no one has provided any source).

In the end, the situation has been addressed, documented, and I'm sure FFG will be involved. It is not a situation anyone is taking lightly, I can assure you that.

Umm if the TO isn't expecting to make calls involving cheating why are they even TOing in the first place?

Its kind of a major part of the job, prepare for the worst but hope for the best kind of thing. You hope you never have to, but you better be **** well ready to handle the situation correctly.

It should be like backgammon. You can always choose to use the other guys dice at any time. That way if a guy is rolling hot you can say I want to use his dice.

It's honestly the best way to play it. Don't know why FFG has not made it a rule yet? It just makes sense

In actual competition, they should just use a rule that states that all players decide on which players dice to use in the match and then share that pool for the entirety of the match.

That way, nobody can accuse anyone of using loaded dice in the first place, since both players will be using the same dice.

It should be like backgammon. You can always choose to use the other guys dice at any time. That way if a guy is rolling hot you can say I want to use his dice.

It's honestly the best way to play it. Don't know why FFG has not made it a rule yet? It just makes sense

They have.

There's no way I would have agreed to switch dice. That's bowing to pressure when you've done nothing wrong. It's lending legitimacy to baseless claims.

Quite the opposite. Switching dice changes nothing in terms of probability unless your dice are loaded: you have no motive to refuse unless your dice are loaded.

Sure, it doesn't change the probabilities, but it lends legitimacy to the baseless claims of a sore loser. Why change dice if you've done nothing wrong? To satisfy those same sore losers that you're no longer using loaded dice? To prove that your dice weren't loaded in the first place? Why should I have to do that if they've presented no evidence to the contrary?

Either everyone remaining should get new dice, or no one should.

The entire point that should be taken from this is...

...that "Tournament Director" is a hilariously self-important title.

Funniest thing I've seen on here in a long time.

There's no way I would have agreed to switch dice. That's bowing to pressure when you've done nothing wrong. It's lending legitimacy to baseless claims.

Quite the opposite. Switching dice changes nothing in terms of probability unless your dice are loaded: you have no motive to refuse unless your dice are loaded.

Sure, it doesn't change the probabilities, but it lends legitimacy to the baseless claims of a sore loser. Why change dice if you've done nothing wrong? To satisfy those same sore losers that you're no longer using loaded dice? To prove that your dice weren't loaded in the first place? Why should I have to do that if they've presented no evidence to the contrary?

Either everyone remaining should get new dice, or no one should.

It does not add legitimacy at all. It not about proving anything. It about not being an *******. Someone has a bad feeling about your dice, you pamper him by changing dice. Changing dice is a win/win situation. You resolve a situation without spending any resources on the subject to actually resolve the issue and on top of that the rules state anyway that your opponent may ask you to play with your dice or you can ask him to play with his dice. So basically changing dice is encourage by the rules as well.

It is a little bit of a monty hall problem. You always gain an advantage from switching to fresh dice if you are not a cheater. And let's be very clear here, even if you did not cheated there is always the possibility that your dice are indeed defective, so legitimacy is absolutely irrelevant. Furthermore new dice are a few dollar for the TO while checking the dice in long statistical relevant tests are way more expensive and on top either destroy the dices to check for manipulation or x-ray them, etc … all that is way more expensive than just give you a new set of dice.

On top of that handling out new dice is general is absurd in context that everyone is free to take his opponents dice instead his own.

Someone has a bad feeling about your dice, you pamper him by changing dice.

Could not disagree more. Why the hell should anyone pamper anyone when they make unsubstantiated accusations about you?

A "bad feeling" is not a reason to humour unsubstantiated claims; especially when you've done nothing wrong.

Sharing dice isn't always a fair result.

For example, If I happen to be playing a squadron that rolls more green dice than my opponent then sharing my loaded green dice is to my advantage.

Having considered the situation I think I would ask the TO for a new set of dice that both sides have to use. Seems like the sensible way forward without upsetting anyone.

Someone has a bad feeling about your dice, you pamper him by changing dice.

Could not disagree more. Why the hell should anyone pamper anyone when they make unsubstantiated accusations about you?

A "bad feeling" is not a reason to humour unsubstantiated claims; especially when you've done nothing wrong.

Common courtesy. Cost you nothing. If literally doing nothing is already to much to ask from you …

Someone has a bad feeling about your dice, you pamper him by changing dice.

Could not disagree more. Why the hell should anyone pamper anyone when they make unsubstantiated accusations about you?

A "bad feeling" is not a reason to humour unsubstantiated claims; especially when you've done nothing wrong.

It's like no one's heard the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

I personally have been accused of using a Loaded mat all the time...Just because i have memorized all the star patterns on the FFG mats so it gives me a HUGE tactical advantage when i estimate movements... when forced to play on a clean Black surface I frequently fly ships off the board!! So next time accuse your opponent of using a Loaded Mat to just get in their head!!

Alright, let's set the record straight. First off, this was easily one of the best run events I've seen overall in 20 plus years of competitive gaming (including FFG run Gen con and world's events). These TOs had every I dotted and T crossed including timers, announcements, pairings, rules, etc. except for one unfortunate event. Everyone has had an experience with a poorly run event and a bad TO, don't get it twisted that this was one of those events. I could easily criticize many TOs at similar events tenfold for their skills before the lunch break (including, but not limited to, the event the previous week that sparked an 11 page forum thread on tournament length or one in statesboro Georgia that had outright collusion this past Saturday, though it had no meaningful impact on the results). This was the first time these TOs had to deal with something like this (let's face it, xwing has been an extremely casual community until this season). Could they have handled it a bit better? Sure. But there are certainly worse ways to go about it than giving you free dice. The best way to handle it would be to remind any opponents that had a problem that they could just use your dice as well. You can't realistically test dice on the spot. I love how that argument is essentially "people don't understand small sample sizes and statistics, so you need to roll them a few times to be sure". Best not to hold up an event by fondling them for 30 minutes either.

It's also worth pointing out that both TOs are extremely kind young ladies, and maybe (can't speak for them for sure) they "caved" for a quick solution because they had multiple grown men yelling in their faces like children (the OP's accusers, not the OP himself). It's worth mentioning that the OP's noble TO friend, who has not run an xwing event near this size himself, was yelling the loudest. Resulting to personal insults, facebook rants, the whole nine yards. I'd bet dollars to donuts he's of the aforementioned negative breed of TO.

I'm sure it through you off your game a bit, but sooner or later, you have to be able to play with some sort of distraction in just about any competitive setting for a game or sport. You can't play in a bubble. I've had to play virtually every store championship and regional over the past two years on little (and often no sleep) due to work schedule. I've lost in the final match multiple times in these circumstances. I was playing with a fever as well at this event. Our group had a clerical error cost us our hotel room on the first night of Gen con this past year, resulting in us having been awake for 24 hours plus by the time the event even BEGAN. I had to play a top 4 regional game a couple years ago with some random older lady that had wandered into the store chatting me up about attack wing, which I give less than a you know what about. Granted some of these instances (and there are many more) were beyond the control of the host location and/or TOs, but my point is life happens. I wish my biggest distraction was a free set of dice. Also, as you mentioned, your top 4 opponent did win in the previous Swiss game (and he ended up going undefeated on the day and won the event) before the distraction. Can you really say for sure it would have been different otherwise? For everyone else's benefit I'll mention that Tim (the champion on the day) is a consummate gentleman and was not one of the accusers.

And the last point I'll make is about the supposed lack of observation. Even at the top 16 for world's and gencon, in that initial round of 16, there was typically just a single judge giving a cursory glance down the long row of 7 or 8 mats on the one table. Not really going to glean too much from each game like that. Only the game on the stream really had a judge hovering. Speaking of streams, it's worth mentioning that the game in question WAS being live streamed, with the TOs on their laptops anyway.

I obviously had a lot to say based on first hand experience at this event, and apologize for the rant. Safe to say though, that if the entire player base from this event was polled on the overall performance of these TOs, it would be an overwhelmingly positive response. Looking forward to the regional at this location.

I've had very hot dice.

And I've had very cold dice.

My cold dice tend to show up at Store Championships and Regionals more often, while my hot dice show up in casual games.

And yes, most of my tournament losses have been due to cold dice. Not much you can do when you've got a range-1 target-locked and focused attack, and you roll 4 blanks...and reroll into 4 blanks.

Then your opponent gets a Range 3 shot through an asteroid, rolls 3 crits natural, and you blank out. Once had a Firespray take 6 uncancelled hits and 1 uncancelled crit (which was a Direct Hit) on Turn 1....range 3 through an asteroid...while I only got one hit even with a focus and the guy rolled all evades.

Sometimes the dice gods just hate you. Positioning means jack when you can't roll paint on offense or defense even with full modifications.

There's no way I would have agreed to switch dice. That's bowing to pressure when you've done nothing wrong. It's lending legitimacy to baseless claims.

Quite the opposite. Switching dice changes nothing in terms of probability unless your dice are loaded: you have no motive to refuse unless your dice are loaded.

Sure, it doesn't change the probabilities, but it lends legitimacy to the baseless claims of a sore loser. Why change dice if you've done nothing wrong? To satisfy those same sore losers that you're no longer using loaded dice? To prove that your dice weren't loaded in the first place? Why should I have to do that if they've presented no evidence to the contrary?Either everyone remaining should get new dice, or no one should.

Because ultimately, maybe just maybe, someone can actually be the bigger man and just do the adult thing to diffuse a situation. You're logic is flawed. It's not an admission of guilt at all. That's like saying you're admitting guilt by hiring a lawyer when you're accused of a crime. I will give credit to the OP for agreeing and making the best of a bad situation. Being stubborn just for stubborn's sake helps no one. Would you let someone who requests to share your dice for the game do so, or would that be an "admission of guilt" as well?

The competitive X-Wing community is a pretty lousy community.

Get used to it.

Not in my experience.

And we get players from all over the country (the benefits of having the world's busiest airport here and hosting what was one of the largest regionals in the world last year...the infamous Sweat for Fett at 94 players).

Maybe just people in your area, but y'all be the outliers at that point.

Alright, let's set the record straight. First off, this was easily one of the best run events I've seen overall in 20 plus years of competitive gaming (including FFG run Gen con and world's events). These TOs had every I dotted and T crossed including timers, announcements, pairings, rules, etc. except for one unfortunate event. Everyone has had an experience with a poorly run event and a bad TO, don't get it twisted that this was one of those events. I could easily criticize many TOs at similar events tenfold for their skills before the lunch break (including, but not limited to, the event the previous week that sparked an 11 page forum thread on tournament length or one in statesboro Georgia that had outright collusion this past Saturday, though it had no meaningful impact on the results). This was the first time these TOs had to deal with something like this (let's face it, xwing has been an extremely casual community until this season). Could they have handled it a bit better? Sure. But there are certainly worse ways to go about it than giving you free dice. The best way to handle it would be to remind any opponents that had a problem that they could just use your dice as well. You can't realistically test dice on the spot. I love how that argument is essentially "people don't understand small sample sizes and statistics, so you need to roll them a few times to be sure". Best not to hold up an event by fondling them for 30 minutes either.

It's also worth pointing out that both TOs are extremely kind young ladies, and maybe (can't speak for them for sure) they "caved" for a quick solution because they had multiple grown men yelling in their faces like children (the OP's accusers, not the OP himself). It's worth mentioning that the OP's noble TO friend, who has not run an xwing event near this size himself, was yelling the loudest. Resulting to personal insults, facebook rants, the whole nine yards. I'd bet dollars to donuts he's of the aforementioned negative breed of TO.

I'm sure it through you off your game a bit, but sooner or later, you have to be able to play with some sort of distraction in just about any competitive setting for a game or sport. You can't play in a bubble. I've had to play virtually every store championship and regional over the past two years on little (and often no sleep) due to work schedule. I've lost in the final match multiple times in these circumstances. I was playing with a fever as well at this event. Our group had a clerical error cost us our hotel room on the first night of Gen con this past year, resulting in us having been awake for 24 hours plus by the time the event even BEGAN. I had to play a top 4 regional game a couple years ago with some random older lady that had wandered into the store chatting me up about attack wing, which I give less than a you know what about. Granted some of these instances (and there are many more) were beyond the control of the host location and/or TOs, but my point is life happens. I wish my biggest distraction was a free set of dice. Also, as you mentioned, your top 4 opponent did win in the previous Swiss game (and he ended up going undefeated on the day and won the event) before the distraction. Can you really say for sure it would have been different otherwise? For everyone else's benefit I'll mention that Tim (the champion on the day) is a consummate gentleman and was not one of the accusers.

And the last point I'll make is about the supposed lack of observation. Even at the top 16 for world's and gencon, in that initial round of 16, there was typically just a single judge giving a cursory glance down the long row of 7 or 8 mats on the one table. Not really going to glean too much from each game like that. Only the game on the stream really had a judge hovering. Speaking of streams, it's worth mentioning that the game in question WAS being live streamed, with the TOs on their laptops anyway.

I obviously had a lot to say based on first hand experience at this event, and apologize for the rant. Safe to say though, that if the entire player base from this event was polled on the overall performance of these TOs, it would be an overwhelmingly positive response. Looking forward to the regional at this location.

Wait....what happened at Statesboro?

There's no way I would have agreed to switch dice. That's bowing to pressure when you've done nothing wrong. It's lending legitimacy to baseless claims.

Quite the opposite. Switching dice changes nothing in terms of probability unless your dice are loaded: you have no motive to refuse unless your dice are loaded.

Sure, it doesn't change the probabilities, but it lends legitimacy to the baseless claims of a sore loser. Why change dice if you've done nothing wrong? To satisfy those same sore losers that you're no longer using loaded dice? To prove that your dice weren't loaded in the first place? Why should I have to do that if they've presented no evidence to the contrary?

Either everyone remaining should get new dice, or no one should.

It does not add legitimacy at all. It not about proving anything. It about not being an *******. Someone has a bad feeling about your dice, you pamper him by changing dice. Changing dice is a win/win situation. You resolve a situation without spending any resources on the subject to actually resolve the issue and on top of that the rules state anyway that your opponent may ask you to play with your dice or you can ask him to play with his dice. So basically changing dice is encourage by the rules as well.

It is a little bit of a monty hall problem. You always gain an advantage from switching to fresh dice if you are not a cheater. And let's be very clear here, even if you did not cheated there is always the possibility that your dice are indeed defective, so legitimacy is absolutely irrelevant. Furthermore new dice are a few dollar for the TO while checking the dice in long statistical relevant tests are way more expensive and on top either destroy the dices to check for manipulation or x-ray them, etc … all that is way more expensive than just give you a new set of dice.

On top of that handling out new dice is general is absurd in context that everyone is free to take his opponents dice instead his own.

There are two options if someone is having serious conversations about loaded dice:

1.) You have meticulously recorded hundreds of unmodified dice rolls and found that a certain set is over performing to a significant degree.(this involves some math, not just OMG 1.1/8 crits!)

2.) You should not be talking about any loaded dice. It's poison to yourself and others enjoyment and you DO NOT know that anything is actually amiss.

(I am not suggesting the store or TO's did anything wrong here, but the original accusers were definitely in the wrong.)

The entire point that should be taken from this is...

...that "Tournament Director" is a hilariously self-important title.

Funniest thing I've seen on here in a long time.

This is also a guy that harrassed the store owner and TOs before and during the event.

This is also the same grown ass man who shouted at two women in a shop with families present.

This is also the man who went on the internet to defame the shop, TOs and its players, on forums they aren't a part of.

And these are the behaviors of someone that calls themselves Tournament Director?

No one questions what this guy did. If people are going to scrutinize the events that unfolded, they need to learn how all participating parties acted.

No direct observance of dice tampering and rogue complaints from losers do not warrant action against a player.

No direct observance of dice tampering and rogue complaints from losers do not warrant action against a player.

That's a cool pic and all, but how is it related to what happened? The TO did not warrant any actions against the player. They merely gave him new dice.

Mods can we lock this thread down? It has outlived its usefulness.