You don't have enough of a sample size to make any kind of informed decision about a player's dice from one game, or even a few games, unless they're obviously and manifestly weighted to ALWAYS give one result. So watching you play a game would have been a pointless response. Dice swap is the best, fastest, and easiest way to go about it.

So in that same vein aren't the accusations also baseless as they are the result of observation of single games? So why lend them any credence?

all he needed to do was throw your dice a few times and see if anything was wrong. a lot of people don't understand statistics. it's perfectly normal for a player to go through a few lucky streaks.

Umm, what? The TO just has to roll them a few times to see if they are unfairly distributing results. BUT, people should not get mad, because a few lucky games in a row is within the realm of statistical possibility.

Umm, both of those things cannot be true (hint: the first claim is false, a TO cannot simply roll someone's dice a few times to determine fairness).

The same has happened to me twice, both times I offered to swap dice with my opponent on the spot and both times it didn't change the outcome, I still won.

Sorry to hear that your game got thrown - it must have affected you greatly to pull your mind off the game. :/

I don't know what the best resolution was, I really just wonder if there was a way to do it without screwing up my head. I genuinely feel the officials threw the tournament for me. Imagine just playing normal and being picked out. 7/8 rounds 5am wake up 2.5 hour drive. Was flying high, then got shot down.

I didn't want to mention these details, but I can't help but feel it is relevant. One of the TOs husband was my final Swiss opponent. He seemed super cool, but he made an offhand comment about dice. He was running 4 TLT Y and I nearly always had Autothrusters due to angle or range. Then my top 8 I played a nice enough guy who ran VI IGB no GS and two TLT Y, but he turned salty quick for the same reasons. I knew to target his IG first, Crackshot it down, and then it was similar TLT Y vs IG favor. He's the one who examined my dice cup and dice while I was across the room talking to my friends. Of course after the fact he was sitting and conversing with the previous 4 TLT guy. They say many of the top were "not local," but I know the top 8 guy I beat was only 90 minutes away and clearly knew the people there.

Again, I had no problem finding some other dice resolution, but the way the situation was presented as it was could only cause me great anxiety.

I'm sorry about the way things turned out for you and the situation that unfolded. I was approached by the top 8 player about your dice and I basically told him "tough luck". Claims of loaded dice seem silly to me because I've gone on some hot streaks and am also aware of how dice mods make the player assume you're rolling perfect every time.

I will tell you that the initial 2 claims were by local players, which the TOs noted but did not feel warranted that any action should be taken. The third claim came from a player that yes, may only live 90 minutes away, but is not a regular at the store, however some might have recognized him from other tournaments around Florida.

Sour grapes will be sour grapes, and I'm sorry you had to be the other end of it. I could understand for some people situations like these can cause anxiety even if there is no guilty conscience. The TOs intentions were only to make you aware of what others were saying and to be prepared of any claims, false or otherwise, that you cheated your way to the top. I'm sorry it threw you off your game, just know your only losses that day were to the eventual champion, who I did play and completely outflew me, so it was well deserved.

For what it's worth, no one has anything but good things to say about the way YOU handled the situation.

The other player AND the TO both botched this the moment they put their hands on your stuff in your absence. That is outrageous and takes some stones. I'd have been livid if some jerkoff took it upon himself to handle my things and do some half-a** CSI investigation.

I hate to pile on the poor OP, who did nothing wrong and is reporting on an unpleasant experience, but I think he might have been a little overly sensitive in this situation. This occurrence wouldn't have bothered me a tic, and I don't think it would have negatively impacted my play.

If a TO had approached me about my dice, I'd have laughed heartily and shrugged and explained that I was having a "lucky day". I'd then offer to trade dice with anyone in the room, thereby setting all fears to rest. They were being silly, but there's no reason for OP to have taken them seriously.

I doubt I've rolled enough dice in my entire xwing career (early 2014-now) to have anything close to a decent sample

Thicker skin would have certainly benefited the OP as it would have given him the ability to shrug off the whole thing and gain the sweetest revenge of winning the final game, with his own dice.

But as described it still was a poorly handled situation.

I hear this venue is also hosting a Regional?

Thicker skin would have certainly benefited the OP as it would have given him the ability to shrug off the whole thing and gain the sweetest revenge of winning the final game, with his own dice.

But as described it still was a poorly handled situation.

I hear this venue is also hosting a Regional?

Sadly, yes this is the Regional location. More sadly is the TOs are likely the same people.

To the OP, you should go to the regional and put this out of your mind.

I didn't have quite the same experience but at a tournament awhile back multiple opponents claimed that I beat them with dice and that had I had "average dice" I would have lost. I asked them what they meant and I quickly realized they were just didn't understand the math since they complained I rolled more than 2 hits a lot. They hadn't understood that Rexlar Brath with HLC, Predator and a focus token has almost 90% of scoring 3 or more hits (and a 63% chance of scoring 4). I also had Jax, so I was overall modding a lot more of my dice than they were, and unmodified dice vs. modified dice look pretty bad.

I have little doubt that this was happening to you, especially if you were managing glitterstim well (if you brought it), and that and Focused FCS HLC has an 97% chance of rolling three or more hits and a whopping 77% chance of scoring 4.

Is this the same situation where the dice we supposedly "X-rayed and proven to be loaded"?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/203056-how-to-check-loaded-dice/

Is this the same situation where the dice we supposedly "X-rayed and proven to be loaded"?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/203056-how-to-check-loaded-dice/

No, just a coincidence. And this further shows the TOs had to say SOMETHING.

That other group now has to back track events and try to strip titles and price support because of what everyone claimed was just "silly superstition and sore losers".

This player might not have cheated, but if he had and won, the TOs would face more scrutiny for not saying anything at all.

When you go to the regional don't even take dice.

Use the dice app.

Use the dice app.

But everyone hacks that didn't you know?

We've had that talk before as well people insisting they won't play you because it could tampered with.

Very few people cheat but it makes alot of people paranoid.

I doubt I've rolled enough dice in my entire xwing career (early 2014-now) to have anything close to a decent sample

Most likely, which does not mean that a TO can not do a few thousand rolls for the rest of the event to check the dice. Impractical for sure, but for sure the "professional" thing to do. Oh and naturally you x-ray the thing too. ;-)

…

Let's be blunt here, handing out 'fresh' dice for everyone before the tournament starts would be less of a bother, yet would be considered impractical by most even for regionals, not to speak lower tier tournaments.

Though not so sure if TOs could still demand the use of their dice and simply cash in $4 extra per participant. From the pure financial standpoint its not really an issue, even when over here in europe the dice are rare enough that FFGs simply could not deliver enough dice for tournaments. ;-)

Use the dice app.

But everyone hacks that didn't you know?

We've had that talk before as well people insisting they won't play you because it could tampered with.

Very few people cheat but it makes alot of people paranoid.

That actually even makes somewhat sense, not so much because of cheating the dice itself, but because notifications and having friends message you dials from your opponent. With the dice you basically have your smartphone on the tablet. And I guess you would be not happy when I use your smartphone for my dice rolls, right? ;-)

Use the dice app.

But everyone hacks that didn't you know?

We've had that talk before as well people insisting they won't play you because it could tampered with.

Very few people cheat but it makes alot of people paranoid.

The competitive X-Wing community is a pretty lousy community.

Get used to it.

I don't know what the best resolution was, I really just wonder if there was a way to do it without screwing up my head. I genuinely feel the officials threw the tournament for me. Imagine just playing normal and being picked out. 7/8 rounds 5am wake up 2.5 hour drive. Was flying high, then got shot down.

I didn't want to mention these details, but I can't help but feel it is relevant. One of the TOs husband was my final Swiss opponent. He seemed super cool, but he made an offhand comment about dice. He was running 4 TLT Y and I nearly always had Autothrusters due to angle or range. Then my top 8 I played a nice enough guy who ran VI IGB no GS and two TLT Y, but he turned salty quick for the same reasons. I knew to target his IG first, Crackshot it down, and then it was similar TLT Y vs IG favor. He's the one who examined my dice cup and dice while I was across the room talking to my friends. Of course after the fact he was sitting and conversing with the previous 4 TLT guy. They say many of the top were "not local," but I know the top 8 guy I beat was only 90 minutes away and clearly knew the people there.

Again, I had no problem finding some other dice resolution, but the way the situation was presented as it was could only cause me great anxiety.

I did not play you yesterday and have no skin in this game.

I'm sorry about the way things turned out for you and the situation that unfolded. I was approached by the top 8 player about your dice and I basically told him "tough luck". Claims of loaded dice seem silly to me because I've gone on some hot streaks and am also aware of how dice mods make the player assume you're rolling perfect every time.

I will tell you that the initial 2 claims were by local players, which the TOs noted but did not feel warranted that any action should be taken. The third claim came from a player that yes, may only live 90 minutes away, but is not a regular at the store, however some might have recognized him from other tournaments around Florida.

Sour grapes will be sour grapes, and I'm sorry you had to be the other end of it. I could understand for some people situations like these can cause anxiety even if there is no guilty conscience. The TOs intentions were only to make you aware of what others were saying and to be prepared of any claims, false or otherwise, that you cheated your way to the top. I'm sorry it threw you off your game, just know your only losses that day were to the eventual champion, who I did play and completely outflew me, so it was well deserved.

For what it's worth, no one has anything but good things to say about the way YOU handled the situation.

I understand the TO's intention, but I think it's the kind of thing you need to sit on unless you think the allegations are substantiated, in which case the act needs to be official, not "Hey, these guys think you're cheating, but if you use fresh dice you can clear your name." When you put somebody on the spot with that, it's not really a choice- you've basically accused them of cheating anyway, they're extremely unlike to say "no" except in retrospect.

If you don't think there's anything behind them, just let it be. I mean, there's nothing to be done now but I think it's important in the future. I'll be at the regionals there.

First, I'm sorry this happened to you and it sounds like your opponent was a sore loser.

That said, I'm honestly surprised this situation doesn't come up at tournaments more often considering how some people react to their opponents' dice results. Their should probably just be an official tournament rule added that if your opponent believes you are using loaded dice then one of two things happen:

1) If the TO confirms the dice have "obvious physical alteration" (drill holes and weights are visible) then the player using altered dice is immediately disqualified from the tournament and any previous wins in earlier matches are reversed.

2) If the TO cannot confirm "obvious physical alteration" to the dice then your opponent is permitted to use your dice during the match so that neither player has a perceived advantage or disadvantage.

Honestly, sometimes the dice are "hot" or "cold" and that's the nature of any game involving dice. I've been destroyed by opponents who repeatedly rolled "hot" ... but I've never believed another X-wing player was using loaded dice.

I would have told the Tao and particularly the poor sport to ....off. Do you understand how crazy difficult it is to load dice specialized dice. Even loaded dice are not auto rolls because the shift in weight is minimal. They increase the percentage between 10-30%. The entire point of loaded dice is that they are undetectable because getting caught can lead to some terrible consequences from a busted up nose, empty wallet, broken leg, or worst case scenario to ending up on the wrong end of a gun. As a professional, card counting blackjack player briefly years ago, I can tell you that players using dice for side games spent hours casting and or milling their own dice. They used two sets usually and slight of hand to move them in and out. They could never increase the odds too much because of the danger. Obviously, you can't feasible replicate casino dice. Even if you could swap a set by knowing both a pit boss and the craps dealer and spend the time the pulling out of the dice with the switching of the new dice in which occurs so often, you might still lose because +10% odds is terrible when you can't do it for more than an hour to gain the certain advantage over time. Bet too much and floor bosses are going to make the pit bosses switch out even more and the eye of the sky will also be paying closer attention. Tis is b a use the only thing you can do with casino dice is shave an edge or two giving you a small little advantage.

To load x-wing dice you are talking about drill pressing out a small hole and adding a small weight. You would then have to mix a resin of the same color and then also polish the resin down. No matter what you would see small nebulous area where the resin was polished down into the existing material. By not waiting until the resin was completely cured you can limit the inhibits drill hole but it cages to a smudged look. But here is the impossible part: color matching. It could take you 175-500 attempts to get the color right unless you repaint the entire dice and coat with several coats of poly c.. But then you go a new problem: the polyc drying evenly and being able to polish the poly c evenly. The ploy c will Change the color so you are doing tons of attempts getting the color right in that instance--less so than the previous methods. When you apply the poly C you would have the spray it of course using and airbrush and going ever so slowly. You would have to suspend the die in mid air on a slow rotating machine like a mini looking lathe and using needles to hold the die in place by the pips. Protecting the shaped pips would be a nightmare as well throughout the process. You could easily cover the pips with rubber cement but the edge of the paint, polyc to the pips is the real problem with this method as I see it. You ARE going to mess up the clean crisp edge while you do all this. Forgetting about it and rerout in the pimps would take a CNC machine to get around that problem. Thus you would just make new pips. However, making the program for those pips is also a specialized and time consuming task and you also need a CNC machine or access to one or someone with the skills. So the real question is would anyone EVER do this for X-wing...no I am afraid not.

Of course, the simplest method is to slowing polish off on edge, but you are increasing your odds by 10% at best.

Nobody is doing this sort of junk and the person accusing you of this misdeed is clearly one not the more informed people to put it nicely.

Hi Folks, I am the owner of the venue and was awaiting feedback from FFG Organized Play on how to deal with concerns like this in an event for their products but can not sit here and watch the TOs and the player with "the dice in question" get picked apart from both sides of the fence. Sorry this may be a TLDR post....

I manage literally over 800 organized play events a year in our store. We host events with participants in excess of 100 players occasionally. The average is 25-40. I am very picky about who is involved in organizing and/or officiating in events in my store. With that being said, as I don't play X-Wing beyond a little casual flying, I turned to the regional opinion and was told by everyone I talked to that the 2 TOs who officiated this event were great. One of them had run other X-Wing events in my store and EVERY player was always giving us positive feedback on the event coordination and officiating. The event ran incredibly smoothly. The TOs handled the entire process amazingly. My staff and I were getting constant comments from several players on how fun and well organized the event was running. They stayed constantly vigilant on Facebook for weeks leading up to the event answering every question and concern that came up ahead of time. We even had some new kids who had never played in an organized X-Wing event before that came in out of interest and these TOs took the time to make them comfortable and walked them through the whole process of registration, filling out the forms, team building etc. I don't feel I can stress enough how positive the event as a whole went off.... Heck, I walked past several conversations with customers who walked in the store and were curious about what was going on and the TOs and even some players would pause and explain to them the game and how it worked. This game builds an awesome community.

Now, as anyone who manages competitive events knows, drama sometimes unfolds in even the best run events. It's the nature of competitive events. Players play to win. If they don't win they look for reasons why. In a game such as X-Wing there is a luck factor (dice) that you attempt to mitigate by playing the right builds. Everyone who throws dice knows they run hot and cold. It's the nature of luck. To this end it can be very painful to have your dice in a cold spell and your opponents dice in a hot spell. The TOs are well aware of this. Hence, the way this went down.

To speak to the fairness in officiating the event that I feel the TOs were trying to maintain, here is a situation that came up earlier in the event that sheds some light on it. I was walking in the room observing and noticed one of the TOs standing on a tall stool and bending over one of the tall terrain tables we use for the event. She eventually had to kneel on the stool and bend over the table and use laser lines in whatever she was answering from the players. I even joked with the other TO and took a picture. In fact it's was on one of the video filmed tables so will probably show up out there some day. Anyway, when she came back over by the TO tables I gave her a short girl joke about it and she laughed but told me exactly "you have to do what you have to do to make sure the call is correct" it was a call about debris and a mine field, an obstructed attack. She needed to make sure she was above the view to make the right call. The reason I mention this is because of the next statements the TOs made to me. She commented that "that's one of the hard things to do when TOing is telling someone you consider a friend that their side of the judgment is against them". In fact this was a local player who she just had to tell he hit a meteor. This call very well likely cost him the game and the top 4 cut. Not something you would do if you were trying to "local bias". The other TO then mentioned "Yep, when I get called to a table I say Don't tell me who's ship is whose, just tell me the question".

I talked with several players and the TOs during and after this situation. I was there for almost all of the process. I have security cameras to back up the time line.

The first comment about the dice came as a comment early in the event to the TO (from her husband) when asked how he did as "I lost. My dice were horrible and his were hot". That was all. Not even an accusation. Not considered one. Not acted on.

The second comment came to the same TO again in a match report of "**** his dice were hot. I lost" again not an accusation. And again not acted on.

The third comment came directly to the TO after the first cut round. "please come look at these dice". She walked over and the player rolled all the dice on a table 5 or 6 times and EVERY die came up with paint every time. Yes, it is statistically possible. She looked at the dice and there is nothing obvious. The players states "I'm concerned about these dice". The TO tells him there's really no way to scientifically check for modifications here at the venue. She tells him he could have asked to use shared dice. The player stated "he asked his opponent to play a second just for fun match during the 30 minutes still remaining in the round with shared dice for peace of mind, and the opponent declined". She states this is within his rights to decline. Wanting to make sure to address it correctly she even consulted a neutral 3rd party TO from another region. He also stated there is no way to without a doubt prove dice here in the situation in the time frame. Both our TOs consulted forums, FAQs, everything they could find to look for an official response. No luck. This is when they contacted me. They were concerned a "rumor mill" would start up and didn't want to see the player accused of something he couldn't defend after the fact. They had been given a formal complaint at this time and needed to address it one way or another.

It's almost a lose/lose situation for the TOs. If they let it go, you have a player who could lodge a complaint about not having his complaint addressed. Or you could launch an investigation and try to somehow scientifically validate/fail the dice within the time and venue constraints 10 hours into an event that is headed to Top 4. There's really no way to test the dice properly. Both sides should be allowed to prove their sides or else drama and issues will arise. We decided together to address it discreetly as possible to avoid any issues of embarrassment. No one wants to be accused of cheating and no one want to feel cheated. We quietly took the dice owner aside in a totally separate area of the store and informed him a complaint had been made about the dice but that there was really no way for us to truly validate his dice here in the present. They wanted to make him aware so he could choose to do as he wanted. He was told he could play on as usual in the event with his dice and that would be the end of it. He could agree to share dice. I offered to open a sealed starter and let him swap to those for the rest of the event if he wanted truly neutral dice. He was obviously embarrassed and frazzled by the occurrence. He decided to swap to a new set of dice from the starter. It was stated as a group between us, this would make sure there could be no accusations about anybody cheating as we had all (Myself, the TOs, and the player) been there opening the starter and swapping the dice. We offered to give him his dice back at the end so no one could make any accusations. This was done to allow him to have proof it was not his dice but his play that won him the day.

We went to the top 4 cut. Unfortunately he lost his next match. But, for the record it was against the same opponent who was his only other loss earlier in the day. And who in the end won out the day. So, a challenging opponent at the least.

The next thing I know, I have a customer come to me and tell me I should get to the back of the room "because it's becoming heated".

I walk to the back and see my TOs standing there with 2 players talking to them and the player with the dice standing at the table looking down dejected. As I step up I hear one of the customers tell my TOs "this event was run horribly!" "I'm going to report it to FFG" the other customer states "I'm gonna accuse my opponents of cheating with their eyes!" "how dare you force our friend to swap dice!" "You singled him out and humiliated him and made him lose his match!" "You are so local biased and wouldn't do that to a local!" I pointed out there wasn't even anyone local in the event when this happened. They stated "That was absolutely the wrong call and I'm reporting it! You should have a community bucket of dice and make everyone take from that" "we'll never come back from here and regionals shouldn't be here!". Through this whole conversation the TOs kept trying to calmly explain the situation and asked for time to address it with FFG. We tried to talk with the original dice owner but he just seemed miserable and said "I think it just got in my head". The more the other 2 players ranted at myself and the TOs the more upset the original player got.

I would like to preface this now with pointing out this is the same person who, before this event, voiced his irritation online about regional here, insisted we needed to NOT run regionals as a possible 2 day event if it drew high attendance because "you could just run 60 minute rounds!" No you can't. Also, irritated that it is on Mother's Day. Also, mentioned online he was "looking forward to coming up and handing out the damage" But, also asked me to provide him a separate table with power to film feature matches for the day. Which I provided. It's also the same person who asked one of my TOs before the event started "If she even played the game?". So, to wonder if there was some prior hostility towards our venue is a bit understated.

So, at this point, I stated the conversation needed to stop because it was going to go nowhere but worse. He was told he was completely within his rights to report us to FFG. We also informed him we were going to look to FFG to provide official guidance on how to deal with accused dice issues in future events. We awarded the dice owner his prizes and store credit prize which he promply stated "I'll spend it now because I'm never coming back!" He did, and they left.

A note was sent to FFG Organized play for guidance on dealing with the issue in the future and we will await their word. But within the hour we start getting messages about all the bashing and flaming going on on all the major X-Wing forums about how badly the event was run, how bad the TOs were, etc... you can see it all up there and everywhere. It's in multiple threads everywhere. Even going so far as to calling out the TOs by name like they are some kind of villains and accusing them everywhere of "colluding against outsiders". Sorry, I couldn't sit by and watch them get bashed any longer without doing something.

Hopefully when this is done, we'll have an official answer from FFG on these matters and put it to rest. Meanwhile can we stop the constant bashing of 2 very hard working VOLUNTEERS?

A long post above but spot on. How practically impossible is it to load dice? And even after going through all the incredible effort to do so, what is the gain? A piece of acrylic?

I would wager there is not a single set of loaded Xwing dice in the world, let alone at the local SC.

The simplest fix to any worry of loaded dice is to share the set. Agree beforehand which set to use and use it for the match.

Loaded dice -sheesh!

First, I'm sorry this happened to you and it sounds like your opponent was a sore loser.

That said, I'm honestly surprised this situation doesn't come up at tournaments more often considering how some people react to their opponents' dice results. Their should probably just be an official tournament rule added that if your opponent believes you are using loaded dice then one of two things happen:

1) If the TO confirms the dice have "obvious physical alteration" (drill holes and weights are visible) then the player using altered dice is immediately disqualified from the tournament and any previous wins in earlier matches are reversed.

2) If the TO cannot confirm "obvious physical alteration" to the dice then your opponent is permitted to use your dice during the match so that neither player has a perceived advantage or disadvantage.

Honestly, sometimes the dice are "hot" or "cold" and that's the nature of any game involving dice. I've been destroyed by opponents who repeatedly rolled "hot" ... but I've never believed another X-wing player was using loaded dice.

I had a player after an IA event message me asking if I thought anything was suspicious about the winner's die rolls. His basis for this was that the winner's ten year old son made a comment earlier after hitting a long shot roll that it was a good thing they had brought the lucky dice. Nevermind the fact that the reason he won the final round was because his accusatory opponent just plain walked a unit off the objective for no reason.

I've had a player accuse an opponent of stalling towards then end of the game, despite the fact that I had watched the end of that game and it was the accuser hemming and hawing over a barrel roll and then wasting time taking un-modifiable 2 dice attacks at range 3 against tokened IGs that caused him to miss out of getting one last round of real shots.