Also, what's this about not being nice to women because they are women?

Sure sure, treat everyone equally. But be nicer to women because they are women. That's what we Gentlemen call being a Gent.

The vast majority of men on this planet should try it out sometime! I mean, heaven forbid a woman should see merit in a man treating her nicely.

Young boys who are reading this thread: Be nice to all women, even the skaggs. Just do it all the time. Say excuse me and open the door for them. If someone calls you a sexist for treating women kindly then you remind them that you're simply being a Gentleman. See lads, that's the other part of being a Gentleman. You have to treat everyone with respect, even if they have really dumb ideas about equality. So never mind this sexist tripe and just go on being polite to women no matter what. You'll find that you have a much easier time in life if you just remember to act like someone your Grandmother would approve of.

You honestly don't see how that is sexist? Does the fact that you are coddling a human being different based on their sex not make you even slightly suspicious that your behavior might be sexist?

Why should't a woman open a door just like a man would? I am sure that their weak little lady wrists can handle it.

Young boys who are reading this thread:

Think.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Did I say be nice to girls because they can't open doors?

It has nothing to do with sex. You act like a Gentleman and treat women with respect because they are women. Where did you come from? A test tube? What would your mother say? Treat others like you would like to be treated, what happened to that? What's wrong with instilling a little pride in being a male? Women have been screeching for that right since the dawn of time, and now that they have it, men are not allowed to?

This isn't about sexism at all, this is about the systematic destruction of the male psyche. What are boys supposed to think? That they can't open a door for someone without being labelled a sexist? Give your head a shake. In this day and age a guy can't even look at a girl without being labelled a sexual deviant or worse. You muckety mucks with your equality are just as bad as fascists in your zeal.

Also, what's this about not being nice to women because they are women?

Sure sure, treat everyone equally. But be nicer to women because they are women. That's what we Gentlemen call being a Gent.

The vast majority of men on this planet should try it out sometime! I mean, heaven forbid a woman should see merit in a man treating her nicely.

Young boys who are reading this thread: Be nice to all women, even the skaggs. Just do it all the time. Say excuse me and open the door for them. If someone calls you a sexist for treating women kindly then you remind them that you're simply being a Gentleman. See lads, that's the other part of being a Gentleman. You have to treat everyone with respect, even if they have really dumb ideas about equality. So never mind this sexist tripe and just go on being polite to women no matter what. You'll find that you have a much easier time in life if you just remember to act like someone your Grandmother would approve of.

You honestly don't see how that is sexist? Does the fact that you are coddling a human being different based on their sex not make you even slightly suspicious that your behavior might be sexist?

Why should't a woman open a door just like a man would? I am sure that their weak little lady wrists can handle it.

Young boys who are reading this thread:

Think.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Did I say be nice to girls because they can't open doors?

It has nothing to do with sex. You act like a Gentleman and treat women with respect because they are women. Where did you come from? A test tube? What would your mother say? Treat others like you would like to be treated, what happened to that? What's wrong with instilling a little pride in being a male? Women have been screeching for that right since the dawn of time, and now that they have it, men are not allowed to?

This isn't about sexism at all, this is about the systematic destruction of the male psyche. What are boys supposed to think? That they can't open a door for someone without being labelled a sexist? Give your head a shake. In this day and age a guy can't even look at a girl without being labelled a sexual deviant or worse. You muckety mucks with your equality are just as bad as fascists in your zeal.

"Women have been screeching for that right since the dawn of time..."

Yea, you have a perfectly healthy view of gender roles.... I'd bet anything you've never ever described a man with the word "screeching."

Look, I agree we should endeavor ourselves to be kind and polite, and we should pass the same on to our children. If you want to be polite and hold doors for people, I agree, let's do it, BUT do it for everyone, not just women. You do it because they are people, not "because they are women" (your words). That's simply called being nice. Don't make it a habit to go out of one's way to be polite to women but to not do the same for men. That is, indeed, sexism, akin to a condescending paternalism.

I use the word "chicks," then clarify why I did and proceed to try and compliment women by saying they make things better - but I'm a sexist fill-in-the-blank? Someone poo-pooed the fact that I've been married over ten years (13 to be exact) as if that isn't a major accomplishment (most end in divorce after 8), but somehow I'm a sexist pig because of a few words? I will spare everyone a list of examples of why I'm not a sexist pig, if your mind is made up about my character as a person because of a couple remarks in a single thread, then I suppose there's nothing to be done about that.

I attacked NO ONE personally in this thread, but I was attacked more than once. That's a little unfair and presumptuous to jump to such conclusions so quickly - and then to lash out at me.

I will further clarify, the use of the term "chicks" was not meant as derogatory. If I offended someone by that usage then I apologize. I meant it no different than using the word "dudes" for a guy, I am genuinely sorry if I misused a word and offended someone.

I am not perfect, I try to treat people right. Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone over this.

One does not preclude the other.

And the terminology you used is problematic because it paints you into the group that really do prevent women from being more comfortable in gaming. I mean, you just need to look at the other big thread about being accused of having loaded dice. A lot of how that played out I think would be much different if they were dealing with male judges. The whole "Do you even play X-wing" question takes whole new tones when I realized it was female judges.

Also, what's this about not being nice to women because they are women?

Sure sure, treat everyone equally. But be nicer to women because they are women. That's what we Gentlemen call being a Gent.

The vast majority of men on this planet should try it out sometime! I mean, heaven forbid a woman should see merit in a man treating her nicely.

Young boys who are reading this thread: Be nice to all women, even the skaggs. Just do it all the time. Say excuse me and open the door for them. If someone calls you a sexist for treating women kindly then you remind them that you're simply being a Gentleman. See lads, that's the other part of being a Gentleman. You have to treat everyone with respect, even if they have really dumb ideas about equality. So never mind this sexist tripe and just go on being polite to women no matter what. You'll find that you have a much easier time in life if you just remember to act like someone your Grandmother would approve of.

You think your helping women but your not what you said is terribly misogynistic, you call others sexist when you're saying incredibly sexist things.

Women can never get full equality with 20th century thinking like that.

I use the word "chicks," then clarify why I did and proceed to try and compliment women by saying they make things better - but I'm a sexist fill-in-the-blank? Someone poo-pooed the fact that I've been married over ten years (13 to be exact) as if that isn't a major accomplishment (most end in divorce after 8), but somehow I'm a sexist pig because of a few words? I will spare everyone a list of examples of why I'm not a sexist pig, if your mind is made up about my character as a person because of a couple remarks in a single thread, then I suppose there's nothing to be done about that.

I attacked NO ONE personally in this thread, but I was attacked more than once. That's a little unfair and presumptuous to jump to such conclusions so quickly - and then to lash out at me.

I will further clarify, the use of the term "chicks" was not meant as derogatory. If I offended someone by that usage then I apologize. I meant it no different than using the word "dudes" for a guy, I am genuinely sorry if I misused a word and offended someone.

I am not perfect, I try to treat people right. Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone over this.

One does not preclude the other.

And the terminology you used is problematic because it paints you into the group that really do prevent women from being more comfortable in gaming. I mean, you just need to look at the other big thread about being accused of having loaded dice. A lot of how that played out I think would be much different if they were dealing with male judges. The whole "Do you even play X-wing" question takes whole new tones when I realized it was female judges.

I am really glad you said this. I didn't want to bring it up myself and be accused of being overly sensitive, but I could not help but feeling that way as well.

Anyone want to wager on how long it takes for this thread to get locked?

I tend to open doors for just about everyone.... so does my sister.

Noted. I don't see how that is relevant in any way, but I will keep it in mind.

Now, you may have thought that actions that you take with regard to any person are relevant because they show that you do not single out women for special treatment and protection, but you just said that you do:

Being a teenager still, it irks me so much when Guys are total dolts to girls, drives me nuts. Ive almost gotten in a couple fights because I was defending girls from guys being completly innapropriate. luckily, I can be very imposing, so guys don't really fight me. Boys, do take this advice seriously.

You, apparently, you hate it when men are total dolts to delicate little ladies. In response, you, apparently, threaten physical violence against them. Maybe you would do the same thing to protect another man from dolt-ish behavior, but that is not what you said. You could have just as easily substituted the word "people" for the word "girls" in the quote above, if that is the case.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Did I say be nice to girls because they can't open doors?

It has nothing to do with sex. You act like a Gentleman and treat women with respect because they are women.

Are you not hearing yourself? You open doors for women because they are women. You explicitly said that.

but, you skipped the question. Why? Why do you open doors for women because they are women?

Because you think that being a "gentleman" means adhering to standards of behavior that were developed when it was generally accepted that women were inferior to men both mentally and physically.

What would your mother say?

What would my mother say? Do you hear yourself?

Another question - why didn't you ask, "What would your father/parent/parents say?"

You relegate the keeping of children's manners to women. That is, again, sexist.

You need to think not of what is right, any idiot can believe that their tradition of behavior is correct, but why it is right. If you do that, then this conversation is over.

Treat others like you would like to be treated, what happened to that? What's wrong with instilling a little pride in being a male? Women have been screeching for that right since the dawn of time, and now that they have it, men are not allowed to?

But you do not treat other how you want to be treated. But, maybe I am wrong - do you prefer that women go out of their way to open doors for you because you are a man and to find it odd if you do the same?

Pride in being a man? You know that you did nothing to be a man - don't you? That is like taking pride in having five fingers on your left hand.

This isn't about sexism at all, this is about the systematic destruction of the male psyche. What are boys supposed to think? That they can't open a door for someone without being labelled a sexist? Give your head a shake. In this day and age a guy can't even look at a girl without being labelled a sexual deviant or worse. You muckety mucks with your equality are just as bad as fascists in your zeal.

So, there it is. Thank you for not disappointing. The "destruction of the male psyche." Your fear of the death of the traditional definition of what it means to be a man, that being the sexist and paternalistic definition, is pathetic. You need to re-evaluate what the meaning of accidents of birth should be and how they should impact peoples' lives.

Also, boys are not supposed to think that opening the door for someone is sexist, but that is not what you are saying. You never said that boys should open doors for people, you said that boys should open doors for girls. Are you still not seeing the difference?

This thread has gotten even more ridiculous. Ugh

It always does.

Why does all the good stuff go down when I'm not around.

I tend to open doors for just about everyone.... so does my sister.

Noted. I don't see how that is relevant in any way, but I will keep it in mind.

Now, you may have thought that actions that you take with regard to any person are relevant because they show that you do not single out women for special treatment and protection, but you just said that you do:

Being a teenager still, it irks me so much when Guys are total dolts to girls, drives me nuts. Ive almost gotten in a couple fights because I was defending girls from guys being completly innapropriate. luckily, I can be very imposing, so guys don't really fight me. Boys, do take this advice seriously.

You, apparently, you hate it when men are total dolts to delicate little ladies. In response, you, apparently, threaten physical violence against them. Maybe you would do the same thing to protect another man from dolt-ish behavior, but that is not what you said. You could have just as easily substituted the word "people" for the word "girls" in the quote above, if that is the case.

I always try to help people who are being mistreated, unfortunatly, in my local community, it is mostly girls, and the sad part is even with all the mainstream feminist stuff going around, girls still often just do what guys force them to do. And I don't physically threaten anyone, I just tell em to back off, a "pick on someone your own size" kind of thing. On the other hand, If there was a guy being mistreated or bullied, I would definatly reach out and try to help him, even though he is a male. what can I say? I don't like seeing people being mistreated, and I am what you call a "cliche gent". Call me sexist, do I care? not really.

Call me sexist, do I care? not really.

I did not call you sexist, I pointed out that what you said was sexist. I was very clear.

I guess I might as well point out that you cared enough to respond.

Call me sexist, do I care? not really.

I did not call you sexist, I pointed out that what you said was sexist. I was very clear.

I guess I might as well point out that you cared enough to respond.

Same here.

Wow. Okay.

1: Why should you open doors for women? Because you know what dude? They can manage just fine without us. You think women need men around? Shape up. Go open some doors right now. Perhaps the standard of modern western manners is based on an outdated mindset, but does that mean we should abandon the notion all together? Did I explicitly say we ought to think of them as being unable to open doors? No, I just said open the door and show some respect because she is a woman. And hey, maybe the term "open doors" is interchangable, maybe it's a freakin' metaphor? How about this: Treat women with respect because they are women. Oh wait, I already said that...

2: Yes, what would your Mother say! Because she is a woman I'd imagine your own mum would have some pretty strong and valid opinions about women. And where did I say that child rearing was the domain of women? You inferred it from my statements? Well I could make some inferences too...

3: Actually I'd love it if someone would hold the door for me once in awhile. If I see a woman about to hold open a door for me? Yeah no, that's not the point now is it. She's a Lady and I'm a Gentleman. I'll get that for you miss! You know what else would be great, a little respect as a pedestrian! If you hit me with that thing I don't think the Volvo will need a cast... See, you're trying to pick apart hairs that don't need picked apart. This isn't about subversive messages or creating gender roles. It's about holding yourself to a high standard and being courteous. I think you dislike that my vernacular consists of certain elements and so you discredit the ideas out of hand and search for ways to defeat them. Being prideful of your manhood isn't being proud to have 5 fingers. It's pride in knowing that you satisfy your own internal goals and are able to engage the world in a reasonable way.

4: I believe the main subject up for debate was how men treat women, and thus yes I say that young boys should learn to respect girls. And you call me pathetic. From my world view and exposure to life I see an element of wickedness in this debasement of gender values. Accident of birth? You mean the semi random way in which bodily fluids mix together and make a baby? Well that's no accident there pal, those bits are there for a reason and it's not just the continuation of X-Wing. Well, maybe it is, but...

5: There have been multiply replies since I began typing this so all of this is in reply to Rapture's rather scathing response to my earlier post.

And just for good measure...

Look, there is a serious problem with our youth and all this gender confusion. I'm not saying let's all wear ducktails and smoke camels about it, but maybe there is some wisdom to be had in teaching young children about how to respect each other as members of the human race, and that includes whether or not you have a ***** or a ******. I'm sorry but we can't avoid talking about gender here. It's just a given. You can't teach kids to "speak in gender neutral terms", we as humans can't detach from our sexuality. What are we doing here? Trying to be an L. Ron Hubbard book? WTF?

edit: And the blocked word is the proper term for the female genitalia? See that's what I mean y'all. Everyone too scared to talk about it and so we gotta form some crazy gender neutrality philosophy so we don't have to say pee-pee.

Call me sexist, do I care? not really.

I did not call you sexist, I pointed out that what you said was sexist. I was very clear.

I guess I might as well point out that you cared enough to respond.

Well I don't want to be rude and ignore you.

Wow. Okay.

1: Why should you open doors for women? Because you know what dude? They can manage just fine without us. You think women need men around? Shape up. Go open some doors right now. Perhaps the standard of modern western manners is based on an outdated mindset, but does that mean we should abandon the notion all together? Did I explicitly say we ought to think of them as being unable to open doors? No, I just said open the door and show some respect because she is a woman. And hey, maybe the term "open doors" is interchangable, maybe it's a freakin' metaphor? How about this: Treat women with respect because they are women. Oh wait, I already said that...

2: Yes, what would your Mother say! Because she is a woman I'd imagine your own mum would have some pretty strong and valid opinions about women. And where did I say that child rearing was the domain of women? You inferred it from my statements? Well I could make some inferences too...

3: Actually I'd love it if someone would hold the door for me once in awhile. If I see a woman about to hold open a door for me? Yeah no, that's not the point now is it. She's a Lady and I'm a Gentleman. I'll get that for you miss! You know what else would be great, a little respect as a pedestrian! If you hit me with that thing I don't think the Volvo will need a cast... See, you're trying to pick apart hairs that don't need picked apart. This isn't about subversive messages or creating gender roles. It's about holding yourself to a high standard and being courteous. I think you dislike that my vernacular consists of certain elements and so you discredit the ideas out of hand and search for ways to defeat them. Being prideful of your manhood isn't being proud to have 5 fingers. It's pride in knowing that you satisfy your own internal goals and are able to engage the world in a reasonable way.

4: I believe the main subject up for debate was how men treat women, and thus yes I say that young boys should learn to respect girls. And you call me pathetic. From my world view and exposure to life I see an element of wickedness in this debasement of gender values. Accident of birth? You mean the semi random way in which bodily fluids mix together and make a baby? Well that's no accident there pal, those bits are there for a reason and it's not just the continuation of X-Wing. Well, maybe it is, but...

5: There have been multiply replies since I began typing this so all of this is in reply to Rapture's rather scathing response to my earlier post.

It's alright Darkcloak, we simply belong in a differnt age.

I'd open a door for bacon.

Wow. Okay.

1: Why should you open doors for women? Because you know what dude? They can manage just fine without us. You think women need men around? Shape up. Go open some doors right now. Perhaps the standard of modern western manners is based on an outdated mindset, but does that mean we should abandon the notion all together? Did I explicitly say we ought to think of them as being unable to open doors? No, I just said open the door and show some respect because she is a woman. And hey, maybe the term "open doors" is interchangable, maybe it's a freakin' metaphor? How about this: Treat women with respect because they are women. Oh wait, I already said that...

2: Yes, what would your Mother say! Because she is a woman I'd imagine your own mum would have some pretty strong and valid opinions about women. And where did I say that child rearing was the domain of women? You inferred it from my statements? Well I could make some inferences too...

3: Actually I'd love it if someone would hold the door for me once in awhile. If I see a woman about to hold open a door for me? Yeah no, that's not the point now is it. She's a Lady and I'm a Gentleman. I'll get that for you miss! You know what else would be great, a little respect as a pedestrian! If you hit me with that thing I don't think the Volvo will need a cast... See, you're trying to pick apart hairs that don't need picked apart. This isn't about subversive messages or creating gender roles. It's about holding yourself to a high standard and being courteous. I think you dislike that my vernacular consists of certain elements and so you discredit the ideas out of hand and search for ways to defeat them. Being prideful of your manhood isn't being proud to have 5 fingers. It's pride in knowing that you satisfy your own internal goals and are able to engage the world in a reasonable way.

4: I believe the main subject up for debate was how men treat women, and thus yes I say that young boys should learn to respect girls. And you call me pathetic. From my world view and exposure to life I see an element of wickedness in this debasement of gender values. Accident of birth? You mean the semi random way in which bodily fluids mix together and make a baby? Well that's no accident there pal, those bits are there for a reason and it's not just the continuation of X-Wing. Well, maybe it is, but...

5: There have been multiply replies since I began typing this so all of this is in reply to Rapture's rather scathing response to my earlier post.

Way to go, now you're gonna get this whole thread locked for the rest of us. Now how will we address OP's important question of how to lure "chicks" into game stores so that fat, smelly, disgusting dregs of nerdery will perk up and act like human beings in a vain effort to get laid, thus making the game store more tolerable for us good ol' boys?!?!? (/sarcasm)

Also, I think you missed Rapture's point...like, entirely missed it...like missed it more than an entire stormtrooper platoon trying to shoot Luke Skywalker level of misses.

I think It would be interesting to see how the women respond to gentlemen. In my short experience on this earth, I find girls appreciate it. I can't say ive met too many feminists though. It will be an interesting experience when a girl smacks me in the face when I offer a helping hand.

Sure sure, treat everyone equally. But be nicer to women because they are women. That's what we Gentlemen call being a Gent.

If you want to make this about politeness than I have to disagree. A gentleman is not less polite to another gentleman than he is toa lady, you just might apply different etiquette to different genders, and even that only when appropriate. And these days most of the time no differences are appropriate. it is even hard to think of appropriated differences in daily life which would apply to western europe. A few american's would come to mind, but they seem to be currently disputed by some (like the formal structure for dates) and most of those can be taken offensive these days.

But I would not mind to hear something specific examples that justify different behavior. Different cultures, different customs.

My god is this still going on?

I'll make it simple for everyone.

Treat other people the way you'd like to be treated.

Do what's right by you, do what's right by who you are talking to.

BE EXCELLENT TO ONE ANOTHER!

I think It would be interesting to see how the women respond to gentlemen. In my short experience on this earth, I find girls appreciate it. I can't say ive met too many feminists though. It will be an interesting experience when a girl smacks me in the face when I offer a helping hand.

Whenever I've seen it it's more just embarrassing for them - like when a confused non-Londoner offers his seat on the Tube to a fit and able young lady because of the disability of having a ****** (or whatever the reasoning is). It's also kinda rude to refuse when someone's insistent, of course, so the whole thing is quite the sorry display of social protocol gone wrong.

EDit: Huh, the auto-censor makes that look a lot worse than I intended!

My god is this still going on?

I'll make it simple for everyone.

Treat other people the way you'd like to be treated.

Do what's right by you, do what's right by who you are talking to.

BE EXCELLENT TO ONE ANOTHER!

Thank. God. Darius, thank you for being the voice of reason.

So do neanderthals.

Wow. Okay.

1: Why should you open doors for women? Because you know what dude? They can manage just fine without us. You think women need men around? Shape up. Go open some doors right now. Perhaps the standard of modern western manners is based on an outdated mindset, but does that mean we should abandon the notion all together? Did I explicitly say we ought to think of them as being unable to open doors? No, I just said open the door and show some respect because she is a woman. And hey, maybe the term "open doors" is interchangable, maybe it's a freakin' metaphor? How about this: Treat women with respect because they are women. Oh wait, I already said that...

2: Yes, what would your Mother say! Because she is a woman I'd imagine your own mum would have some pretty strong and valid opinions about women. And where did I say that child rearing was the domain of women? You inferred it from my statements? Well I could make some inferences too...

3: Actually I'd love it if someone would hold the door for me once in awhile. If I see a woman about to hold open a door for me? Yeah no, that's not the point now is it. She's a Lady and I'm a Gentleman. I'll get that for you miss! You know what else would be great, a little respect as a pedestrian! If you hit me with that thing I don't think the Volvo will need a cast... See, you're trying to pick apart hairs that don't need picked apart. This isn't about subversive messages or creating gender roles. It's about holding yourself to a high standard and being courteous. I think you dislike that my vernacular consists of certain elements and so you discredit the ideas out of hand and search for ways to defeat them. Being prideful of your manhood isn't being proud to have 5 fingers. It's pride in knowing that you satisfy your own internal goals and are able to engage the world in a reasonable way.

4: I believe the main subject up for debate was how men treat women, and thus yes I say that young boys should learn to respect girls. And you call me pathetic. From my world view and exposure to life I see an element of wickedness in this debasement of gender values. Accident of birth? You mean the semi random way in which bodily fluids mix together and make a baby? Well that's no accident there pal, those bits are there for a reason and it's not just the continuation of X-Wing. Well, maybe it is, but...

5: There have been multiply replies since I began typing this so all of this is in reply to Rapture's rather scathing response to my earlier post.

And just for good measure...

Look, there is a serious problem with our youth and all this gender confusion. I'm not saying let's all wear ducktails and smoke camels about it, but maybe there is some wisdom to be had in teaching young children about how to respect each other as members of the human race, and that includes whether or not you have a ***** or a ******. I'm sorry but we can't avoid talking about gender here. It's just a given. You can't teach kids to "speak in gender neutral terms", we as humans can't detach from our sexuality. What are we doing here? Trying to be an L. Ron Hubbard book? WTF?

1: by opening the door for her your insulting her by implying she can't do it herself.

2: my mother's too busy running a university shop to waste time on this.

3: whoever gets to the door first should flaming well open it genitals don't enter into it.

4: but girls don't have to respect boys? How can you not see the sexism right there.