Yeah, the decision to roll back on damage decks was pants-on-head stupid, but FFG has a history of going for the hard-on-player decision first (the Scum dial fiasco) and changing it to be the most accommodating to everyone.

I still think the ideal way to handle it would be to have players assign damage decks to their opponent, to represent their ships choosing a target priority ("Target their secondary weapons!"). It'd be more thematic than simply choosing the deck that is least painful to them. However, I also appreciate the counter-argument from people who don't want to have to share their decks with opponents who may not have the best hygiene.

The Scum dial fiasco all caused by someone who said something they shouldn't have far too early and violating things that were clearly permissible by the rules. Stupid was just putting the alternative paint dials in the box to begin with.

It would be great fun if you could bring the DD that your opponent is supposed to use but as you point out you run into plenty of people who hate, and sometimes with GREAT justification, people using their stuff.

Ffg should at least make regional and national events require the new deck as well but allow store championships to determine if both are allowed. You are much more likely to have a casual player who doesn't have the new deck at a store championship and extremely unlikely to have any at a world, national or even regional event. This would solve most of the issues.

This is certainly true and I also believe that any official tournament should be allowed to REQUIRE the new DD provided they can provide copies to anyone who doesn't have one. I thought I saw somewhere where a tournament did require the new deck and actually handed out copies as needed.

Unlike everything else I believe the DD is one thing a person should have no trouble switching because who really builds a squadron ONLY based on what is in the DD? If your criteria for squadron selection is based on the probability of a specific card out of the DD showing up at a specific time and ruining your game, or not, I'm sorry to say but I think you are putting too much time into the game.

Someone mentioned it upthread but the percentage of people who will play seriously play tournament but who will not purchase the second core set is pretty small. I mean people dish out plenty just to pick up expansions for a single card in them to use in a squadron so asking them to get the new DD shouldn't be a stretch. Seeing someone play Poe or something else specific from the FA Core and not using the new DD is horrible because you know they have it.

Now one thing I believe the old DD has going for it is that there are probably a LOT more "extra" copies of it floating around out there; you saw a lot of people buying two-three core sets for the additional dice but also to get the TIE Fighters needed to fly a full swarm but with the FA core you're not going to see as many people buying two copies much less three or four because those extras just aren't as needed. If a survey was taken among people who own more than one damage deck I believe the Original Core/FA Core would be a lot higher than 1 and probably over 2; I own 2 original DD but 1 FA DD which I believe is pretty common but the number of people who could balance that out is pretty low.

Because big rocks weren't introduced to fix issues with the little rocks

I see your point, but your example is poor. Difference is due to the importance that FFG put on the new damage deck for evening out what they stated thenselves was an inherent flaw in the game (this being, as Vorp puts in in his normal elegance, the extreme variance of effect of the old DD crits)

This is why people get upset with others using the old damage deck, FFG public annonouced the old one was flawed and the new one is a fix. Next minute, permission to use the 'flawed' deck due to public outcry.

me, I don't really care. I've not used the old deck since the new came out because I truly beleive the old deck is living on borrowed time, so why bother. But if someone wants to use it then fine, it's in the rules so make use of it if you want. For me I just want to play the game as the designers intend it where crits actually have effects. Maybe it does hamstring me, but no more than playing with the ships I enjoy using does compared to using the current meta busting ships.

New deck has dead draws too. The "all damage cards dealt from now on are face up" one always is the second to last damage on a ship, and if it gets put on a high hull ship it's instantly flipped down.

The stress on white manuevers is a dead draw on soontir. Oh no soontir has to do a green hard 2.

Old damage deck punished Y's and HWK's unfairly, and it righteously punished people that put 60 points into one (HLC) fat turret. In other words, unless you had a hwk or a Y it was a non-issue. FFG thinks it's a problem but they don't think wave 5 was a problem either.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

You guys should stop gaming the system, you're just running the new deck because you don't want to lose your HLC on Dash.

You would go with the new if you are using any upgrade heavy list like Super Dash. If you are using a swarm then go with the old.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Disagree. The rules are the rules, and playing by the rules isn't something to be ashamed of. Picking an option that synergizes with the rest of your list is perfectly acceptable.

Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

I think in the regional they "Should" at least fix it by doing what they did at worlds and giving all participants a new damage deck. However I don't see them in the kits so if not regional then Nationals at least or else we are going to have to redefine Worlds as Super Premier Events and not premier events.

I don't feel a card is a dead draw of it costs an action to resolve an effect that could otherwise be quite punishing. Major Hull Breach largely draws very few face ups, because they spend an action to repair it. Action economy is everything.

I used the old deck, because that's all I had. If it wasn't for a friendly gamer GIVING me a new damage deck, I'd still be using the old deck. Spending $40 to get a new damage deck is a bit absurd (I felt, and still feel I don't need the new core set. I already have two of the old ones.). Now, if FFG made a new damage deck available for $3-5, THEN I'd get it. Use whatever deck trips your trigger. Picking which deck to use isn't any more janky than some of the stupidly ridiculous lists available to players with deep pockets. It's a game, and there are always going to be people who will leverage every possible angle to their advantage. I still have my two old damage decks, to give to any potential new players, along with the extra asteroids and templates. You can get the rules for free, and if you get the other pieces, you can go straight to buying ships you want.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Disagree. The rules are the rules, and playing by the rules isn't something to be ashamed of. Picking an option that synergizes with the rest of your list is perfectly acceptable.

Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

I think in the regional they "Should" at least fix it by doing what they did at worlds and giving all participants a new damage deck. However I don't see them in the kits so if not regional then Nationals at least or else we are going to have to redefine Worlds as Super Premier Events and not premier events.

You're kidding right? You want FFG to include damage decks for all participants in Regionals. You know they erratically sized events that may range between 60 and 120 participants? Of which there are close to 30 of them? That would be nuts on thier part.

FFG could have also chosen to distribute the damage deck in a manner that doesn't involve everyone having to buy a new core.

FFG could have also chosen to distribute the damage deck in a manner that doesn't involve everyone having to buy a new core.

Exactly it was silly to think everyone would want the new core, making a component mandatory was pants on head stupid.

A small £5 blister avoids all that.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Disagree. The rules are the rules, and playing by the rules isn't something to be ashamed of. Picking an option that synergizes with the rest of your list is perfectly acceptable.

Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

I think in the regional they "Should" at least fix it by doing what they did at worlds and giving all participants a new damage deck. However I don't see them in the kits so if not regional then Nationals at least or else we are going to have to redefine Worlds as Super Premier Events and not premier events.

You're kidding right? You want FFG to include damage decks for all participants in Regionals. You know they erratically sized events that may range between 60 and 120 participants? Of which there are close to 30 of them? That would be nuts on thier part.

Well regionals are the first level of premier events and premier has a higher standard than competitive. So it makes sense to limit regionals to the new damage deck for standardization of premier events. However that would also be excluding any players who did not attend worlds nor bought a new TFA core set.

However providing a new deck to regionals would be rather difficult as for the reasons you mentioned. So if Regionals is too outrageous then how about distributing damage decks to all national participants? The thing is that the old damage decks are going to be phased out and soon will be required at all premier events and eventually to competitive formats. It just a matter of time so while not trying to push it too fast it still has to happen.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Disagree. The rules are the rules, and playing by the rules isn't something to be ashamed of. Picking an option that synergizes with the rest of your list is perfectly acceptable.Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

I'm not sure how it's a "bad rule".

1) The designers have openly stated they think allowing a choice leads to an improved meta.

2) The ships in the new starter aren't as appealing for many players. I wanted a dozen tie fighters for convention games. I'm quite happy having only 3 Tie/FOs, however.

3) I bought 6 of the original starters (wanted the ships, dice, and extra copies of the templates and DD). I have no desire to buy more than one new starter. If I lose a card from My original DD, I have plenty of extras to replace the missing card. If I lose a card from my new DD, I have a completely useless deck that I can't fix without buying a new starter that I don't want. Until FFG makes a pack that sells the DD alone, this will always be a problem.

4) Many retailers (including B&N) have multiple copies of the original starter for sale. Invalidating one of the key components of that starter impacts them. FFG would probably have to start a redemption program and take back any unsold old starters if they'd kept the original ruling. That would be bad for them, both from a cost perspective and a reputation perspective.

At the end of the day, choice of deck doesn't have a huge impact on the vast majority of games. If a player wants to pick a deck based on a couple cards in it, let them. It's certainly not enough of an advantage to get worked up over. The folks who look down their nose at such a trivial thing really need to learn about the concept of "fly casual".

The "bad rule" was invalidating the old DD in the first place. If that ruling had never existed for those few days, we'd never have discussions like these. Obviously the original ruling wasn't thought through completely, and they repealed it.

I'd do the old damage deck.

• Downsides:
  • Munitions Failure can strip a TLT.
• Upsides:
  • Injured Pilot has no effect on you.
  • Old Blinded Pilot doesn't affect TLT as much as new Blinded Pilot.
  • No Major Explosion.
  • Munitions Failure has no effect on 3/4 of your squadron.

Just fly the new as it's the one everyone should be using. Don't game the system by trying to pick the one that will give you an advantage.

Disagree. The rules are the rules, and playing by the rules isn't something to be ashamed of. Picking an option that synergizes with the rest of your list is perfectly acceptable.Now, it's a bad rule, and I think that FFG should have stuck to their guns regarding the new deck, but at the end of the day, it's legal play, and people shouldn't complain about it.

I'm not sure how it's a "bad rule".

1) The designers have openly stated they think allowing a choice leads to an improved meta.

2) The ships in the new starter aren't as appealing for many players. I wanted a dozen tie fighters for convention games. I'm quite happy having only 3 Tie/FOs, however.

3) I bought 6 of the original starters (wanted the ships, dice, and extra copies of the templates and DD). I have no desire to buy more than one new starter. If I lose a card from My original DD, I have plenty of extras to replace the missing card. If I lose a card from my new DD, I have a completely useless deck that I can't fix without buying a new starter that I don't want. Until FFG makes a pack that sells the DD alone, this will always be a problem.

4) Many retailers (including B&N) have multiple copies of the original starter for sale. Invalidating one of the key components of that starter impacts them. FFG would probably have to start a redemption program and take back any unsold old starters if they'd kept the original ruling. That would be bad for them, both from a cost perspective and a reputation perspective.

At the end of the day, choice of deck doesn't have a huge impact on the vast majority of games. If a player wants to pick a deck based on a couple cards in it, let them. It's certainly not enough of an advantage to get worked up over. The folks who look down their nose at such a trivial thing really need to learn about the concept of "fly casual".

The "bad rule" was invalidating the old DD in the first place. If that ruling had never existed for those few days, we'd never have discussions like these. Obviously the original ruling wasn't thought through completely, and they repealed it.

I also feel that the time to complain about the old deck was Pre-Wave 4, when there were no good named pilot options besides for Biggs and Howlrunner, where you'd have a bunch of cards that punished EPT and named pilot use and a bunch that were dead draws on academy pilots.

Now that the meta has flip flopped and it's now more efficient to bring a bunch of named pilots than an equivalent amount of TIEs or whatever, I don't think the old damage deck is actually a problem.

If a Super Dash or Quad TLT player loses a secondary weapon, is that really a bad thing? Likewise, if a dead draw happens on a swarm player I that a bad thing?

Use the new deck, there's a reason they made a newly balanced damage deck and if it weren't for the vocal minority being whiney little ******* about change you would have to use the new one anyway.

Use the new deck, there's a reason they made a newly balanced damage deck and if it weren't for the vocal minority being whiney little ******* about change you would have to use the new one anyway.

Or just use the one that suits your list best, as FFG has stated they intend you to do.

There might have been several reasons besides whining why FFG would reverse the initial ruling. For example :

-At the date they made the ruling, it was not known if Force Awakens would be a hit or not. Imagine the forum rage if people would have to buy a core with prequel ships to keep playing.

- The old core is still for sale, and still called a 'core set'. New players who buy the old core set and then get told they can't play in official tournaments would have every right to be upset.

-Game balance. The new set is more punishing to an already weak archetype (generics with few upgrades).

4) Many retailers (including B&N) have multiple copies of the original starter for sale. Invalidating one of the key components of that starter impacts them. FFG would probably have to start a redemption program and take back any unsold old starters if they'd kept the original ruling. That would be bad for them, both from a cost perspective and a reputation perspective.

At the end of the day, choice of deck doesn't have a huge impact on the vast majority of games. If a player wants to pick a deck based on a couple cards in it, let them. It's certainly not enough of an advantage to get worked up over. The folks who look down their nose at such a trivial thing really need to learn about the concept of "fly casual".

The "bad rule" was invalidating the old DD in the first place. If that ruling had never existed for those few days, we'd never have discussions like these. Obviously the original ruling wasn't thought through completely, and they repealed it.

At least one person understands how things actually work in the real world.

The players who didn't want to buy the new starter for whatever reason are of minor concern to FFG. But when retailers and distributors chimed in with worries about the stock they already had not selling over this that got attention. Someone at FFG finally wised up and thought about all that money they were going to lose on the current stock they had, and the following re stock orders they are contractually bound to already.

All you people whinging about the players who didn't want to have to buy a new starter need to start blaming yourselves for telling people they HAD to buy the new one over the old one to play legally thus tanking old starter sales. Without that happening and getting retailers, and in turn the distributors attention, you would have the ruling you wanted. But instead you were the cause of your own problems with the deck ruling!

Funny thing is, no one would care if FFG never planned on switching.

If the damage deck released and it was always stated that both were appropriate, all the whining in this thread wouldn't exist.

On this line of thought, anyone who brings a Rebel Y-Wing dial while flying a Scum Y-Wing should have rocks thrown in their general direction. Because FFG one time said that it wouldn't be kosher, but changed their minds (for a number of potentially viable reasons).

OR we can just go with the fact that the rules have always supported BOTH decks (as we didn't hit the cutoff date before they decided against it), and factor it into our list building as we do everything else.

Love it or hate it, FFG has decided that choosing your damage deck is part of list-building. Is it cheating to choose the three largest debris fields when running Dash? It is just choosing what is optimal for you.

My son likes running a 5K list for tourneys. Guess what damage deck he uses.

Would you tell your baseball team not to steal bases because "stealing is wrong?"

I think FFG made a poor choice in allowing either deck in competitive events but it is what it is.

The beauty of the decision is that TOs seem still to be able to simply kick out the old deck, just like ffg themselves do at worlds. So in the end it is a local decision, if players lack the new decks and TO can not offer at least some new decks than they will allow the old deck, but if most players have the new deck anyway or the TO has more than enough decks available to hand out than they should by all means kick the old decks out.

It got me thinking what if FFG released new decks occasionally that had different stats that worked better for certain builds. So that now when playing you also had to think about which deck to equip? More spin would be if you have initiative you get to choose which deck your opponent uses... or something along those lines...

I was wondering which Damage deck the forums would recommend to use if I was flying a 3 Blue & 1 TLT, Tactician, Prox mine, Warden in a store Championship.

I have played it 3 times now with the "New" damage deck, but was wondering if I should be using the "old" one.

Fly the new one unless you don't have it.

Yes, you can legally fly the old one if you own both, but we will watch with with judgemental eyes of disapproval.

I was wondering which Damage deck the forums would recommend to use if I was flying a 3 Blue & 1 TLT, Tactician, Prox mine, Warden in a store Championship.

I have played it 3 times now with the "New" damage deck, but was wondering if I should be using the "old" one.

Fly the new one unless you don't have it.

Yes, you can legally fly the old one if you own both, but we will watch with with judgemental eyes of disapproval.

Which means nothing at all as he's following the rules as set down by ffg, just makes you look like a jerk.

He's not cheating he's not gaming the system he's just following the rules, your the one in the wrong for looking down at other people.

Should I judge you for using the new deck because some of those cards have no effect on your list?