Thinking about a third ISD purchase. Current thought:
388/400
ISD-2
ISD-2
ISD-1
Objectives
I'm thinking I can use the ISD1 as a sort of quasi-Gladiator, last-first my opponents and dish out a huge wallop (especially with Advanced Gunnery). As second player, i'm wondering if I should change my Defense objective to Fire Lanes and force a confrontation.
I think you should go with motti. Motti with 3 ISDs is far scarier.
I think you should go with motti. Motti with 3 ISDs is far scarier.
I think I've settled on something else.
I think you should go with motti. Motti with 3 ISDs is far scarier.
I agree Motti adds 9 hit points.
Don't get me wrong, Motti is a good investment in many parts. My concern with Motti is that as soon as he dies, my other ships immediately lose 3 health. Also, frankly, the ability to stop on a dime and return to full speed is a huge benefit that Motti can't take advantage of.
Motti is off the table because I can't see his play style working. The ISD is already a brick. By the time those last three hull points are on the line it won't matter that he added them because the ship probably doesn't have an extra turn anyway.
Don't get me wrong, Motti is a good investment in many parts. My concern with Motti is that as soon as he dies, my other ships immediately lose 3 health. Also, frankly, the ability to stop on a dime and return to full speed is a huge benefit that Motti can't take advantage of.
Motti is off the table because I can't see his play style working. The ISD is already a brick. By the time those last three hull points are on the line it won't matter that he added them because the ship probably doesn't have an extra turn anyway.
Last store championship I was at, 7 Imperial commanders, I was the only one with Screed, everyone else had Motti. My first match was against a double ISD II list, by the end of the match I had done 25 or 26 damage to both ISD II's, I couldn't finish either one off, Motti saved that guy from a 10-0 loss.
But he is as common as Ackbar is for Rebels in Tournaments. So I don't blame you for trying something different.
Motti on an ISD-II with ECMs means his ship is more resilient than the other two ISD-Is. The ability to guarantee the brace against large volleys will naturally keep him alive longer and so also give bonus hull to his wingmen. You can also keep Motti's ship a little safer by plotting a few engineering commands and being more aggressive with the ISD-Is and this fits their weapon load outs well.
ISD-II Motti, ECM, Gunnery team 158
ISD-I Gunnery team 117
ISD-I Gunnery team 117
Total 392/400
Motti on an ISD-II with ECMs means his ship is more resilient than the other two ISD-Is. The ability to guarantee the brace against large volleys will naturally keep him alive longer and so also give bonus hull to his wingmen. You can also keep Motti's ship a little safer by plotting a few engineering commands and being more aggressive with the ISD-Is and this fits their weapon load outs well.
ISD-II Motti, ECM, Gunnery team 158
ISD-I Gunnery team 117
ISD-I Gunnery team 117
Total 392/400
Or to be even safer, switch Motti's GT for Wulff Yularen, and get 6 repair points per round from it.
EnglishPete tried 3 ISDs with Motti at a tournament a few weeks ago and didn't do well. There's no way to modify dice when you're on a cold streak, and that really did him in.
Yep, the list sounds great in theory, but is WAY to reliant on the front arc and good dice. A smart enemy will plink you with squadrons and run ships past you, then it's just a case of counting off hull points....
It's also boring to play.
You would be better to run 3 x ISD-I with Leading Shots, Ozzel (cheap) and 38 points worth of Fighter cover (2 x Tie Int and 2 x Tie) if you want to run 3 x ISD's.
Close in and hammer away, use your anti-squadron dice as well. If an ISD looks like dieing, run away.
Edited by EnglishpeteI just ran this list and came in 2nd at a local tournament. With speed 3 and triple tractor beams, I was able to pin down the enemy fleets, rush in, and overwhelm them at close range. Lots of ramming and movement blocking. In each game I lost one ISD.
396/400
ISD-1
Gunnery Team, Tractor Beams, Relentless, Motti
ISD-1
Gunnery Team, Tractor Beams
ISD-1
Gunnery Team, Tractor Beams
I want to try a trip-ISD fleet, but I hate the ISD 1 and can't get many upgrades on the others, plus I'd have to go squadronless. I'm not sure triple ISD is all that viable in a competitive setting, but I think it'll be fun to fly!
I faced a 3 ISD Motti list in a tourney a couple months back. After the initial "oh sh!t" moment seeing all three beasts on the board...I whittled the left side flank protect down with Rieekan bombers and then went after Motti. As I was a pretty fresh n00b, I made a couple tactical errors during the game plus having a Yavaris activated Luke roll blanks on 3 turns (yes, 6 attacks!) or Motti would have been space dust. My opponent and I discussed afterwards that you just have to bring some fighter screen along or expect them to die relatively quick like, especially to a bomber list
Don't get me wrong, Motti is a good investment in many parts. My concern with Motti is that as soon as he dies, my other ships immediately lose 3 health.
Woah, anyone can confirm this is correct? I was under the impression that Motti was the only commander that gives a flat bonus, and even if you kill him ships still remain at their "Motti health", but i guess i never looked closely at it.
Don't get me wrong, Motti is a good investment in many parts. My concern with Motti is that as soon as he dies, my other ships immediately lose 3 health.
Woah, anyone can confirm this is correct? I was under the impression that Motti was the only commander that gives a flat bonus, and even if you kill him ships still remain at their "Motti health", but i guess i never looked closely at it.
Motti dies, his bonus leaves the table with him. Same as with all commanders.
Don't get me wrong, Motti is a good investment in many parts. My concern with Motti is that as soon as he dies, my other ships immediately lose 3 health.
Woah, anyone can confirm this is correct? I was under the impression that Motti was the only commander that gives a flat bonus, and even if you kill him ships still remain at their "Motti health", but i guess i never looked closely at it.
Motti dies, his bonus leaves the table with him. Same as with all commanders.
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I might as well ask here: what happens after Motti dies to a ship at 1 hull? Does it get destroyed too?
Yes
Your entire fleet could instantly die when motti dies if they are "into" the bonus motti points already
thanks for the answer! This will make me reconsider some of my lists i guess...
I, along with several other local players, have tried various things to get a triple-ISD list to work, without much success. It's a fun, initially scary, list, but not terribly effective.
ISD I: Motti, Quad Turrets, Phylon Tractor Beams
ISD I: XI7, Quad Turrets, Phylon Tractor Beams
ISD I: XI7, Quad Turrets, Phylon Tractor Beams
Start at Speed 3 with either concentrate fire or engineering orders, and bank the token. Stay on navigate orders the rest of the time, and stick close together, circling eachother if possible. Always keep ships close to eachother, so they can support and clean squadrons off of eachother. Use their massive bases to trap smaller ships and force ramming (slow them down with tractors and then position so they are forced to hit you). I've only lost 1 game with this build out of 4, and it was a technical loss (by 4 points from mission objectives and the fact I lost a ship), against solid, veteran tournament players. The big trick against Yavaris bomber lists is to prioritize killing the squadrons for a couple rounds, then slaughter their carriers. You generally lose an ISD during most matches, so don't get fancy about protecting them, and don't bother with concentrate fire orders.
So in the interest of fairness, I'll give a ringside if my recent store tourney. Sure enough, I ran this list.
Round one, vs 2x AF2B, Salvation, MC30 Torpedo
9-1 Win
Combined with a few unlucky rolls by my opponent, the Rebel Scum lost both Assault Frigates and Mon Mothma. Combined with the objective (I recall Contested Outpost all the rounds) I knocked out both AF2s and took an Outpost for a 9-1 win.
Round 2, 6-4 Loss: Against AF2B GT ECM, Riekaan, 2x MC30 , Wedge, Jan, Han, 4G Awings. This should have been a tie but I got greedy. My opponent 100% connected the field realizing that even Riekaan MC30 s couldn't kill a full power ISD. I over extended and lost am ISD without getting a return kill. Lost with an MOV barely into the 40s.
Round 3, 9-1 Loss: This came down heavily to random chance against ISD2 Avenger Charisma Tree, Demolisher, 2x Raiders w/ apt and OE. My opponent triggered 2 Apts in round 2 and both were Misaligned Projectors. This drastically reduced my ability to handle incoming fire. Avenger almost instantly dropped the ISD1 without front shields. The drop in shields and autocross doomed the remaining ISDs, and I lost with only Ozzel surviving.
I have found quad turrets to be totally worth their points. We tried a game (just for test; not legal according to build rules), with doubled quad turrets . Squadrons are really the main problem with this list, and with 3 ISD-1's close together and you throwing a blue die back at anybody who shoots at you, you quickly can menace bombers to death. With 3 ISD's, some decent tactical planning, and smart maneuvering you can generally maul anyone trying to pass through on attack runs (MC30's...). I tend to circle the ships around eachother a lot, so someone trying to sneak in behind one runs face-first into a surprisingly nimble death-wedge shortly after. With tractors you can select particular target ships and drag them down, which is especially great for dealing with AFII's.
The thing about the list is that you pretty much always lose an ISD, so it's difficult to score well overall competitively, but you also pretty much guaranty the other guy is going to get bloody in the process. Excepting total incompetence or extreme bad luck, it's almost impossible to totally table the list, and you will maul anything that you can get a handle on. The main issue I ran into is that you have to be firing on all cylinders to actually pull of decent wins; EVERYTHING you do, every click on the maneuvering dial, every decision to speed up/down, EVERYTHING COUNTS. There is NO room for error. However, it is an incredibly brutal list, and it keeps incredibly powerful lists honest. I would only run it in a tournament for the sheer chaos factor; I don't do competitive play (it bores me), so I could care less about winning, but I do get a lot of enjoyment causing consternation in others over their supposedly awesome/OP lists. Every game I have played while tuning this list, exclusively with very good tournament players, has either been a massive win (not tabled, as there are usually a couple squadrons or a cr90 hiding in a corner or some such), or a technical loss due to mission/objectives (never by more than a few points). In all cases I could count the little mistakes that cost me immensely. There is no room for error. My last game with this list, I literally lost by a single digit margin because I figured out how to maneuver one of the ISD's into a small crack between the corners of the other two; I would have been in a better position if I had just rammed my own ships together and forced their speeds down. It enabled my opponent to click a 15 point objective one more time and clinch a 4 or 8 point (don't remember now) win.
I haven't played this one as I don't have 3x ISD but what's to stop me from dreaming haha.
394 Adv Gunnery, Contested Outpost, Dangerous Territory
ISD2 - Tarkin, Relentless, ENG CPT
ISD1 - Avenger
ISD1 - CPT Needa
Using Tarkin-Claus and nav commands, you can change speed by 2 if necessary, or get 6 eng points with repairs then don't worry about the other 2 commands. Keep all 3 close for anti-squadron support and use a lot of nav commands and tokens and with the 6 points for initiative bid for 2nd player, you should give your opponent a hard time.
But like I said, I haven't played this.