Our local stroe and a smaller club tournament both featured several falcon builds, two I recall, one with 2 Y wings, one with 2 B wings. Nearly shot the Y wing Falcon down, but got into a furball with the Y's (my 2 ion pulse missile carrying Z's) and Ello Asty and Blue Ave couldn't quite finish the Falcon in time. Think the Falcon and 2 B's made the top 4.

Our local stroe and a smaller club tournament both featured several falcon builds, two I recall, one with 2 Y wings, one with 2 B wings. Nearly shot the Y wing Falcon down, but got into a furball with the Y's (my 2 ion pulse missile carrying Z's) and Ello Asty and Blue Ave couldn't quite finish the Falcon in time. Think the Falcon and 2 B's made the top 4.

What was the falcon running with that had the Y's back up?

No Falcon... this just became NOT a STAR WARS Game... happened a while back.

Don't effect me or the other Cas-Wingers in the slightest, but it still shows how FFG is making bad choices more often... based on that **** tournament mentality.

Thank you designer of the game ruining TIE Phantom... you did great!

No Falcons in a STAR WARS Game is just so propper and correct.

BAD POST

[pretend I put a little cartoon of ships shooting your post]

The basic truth is that everything in the meta right now is a bad matchup for YT-1300s

• Crack Shot BSP Swarms
• Omega Leader
• Autothruster Fel / Whisper + Palpatine
• TLTs (with or without Stress Hog)
• Autothruster Poe + Regen / Miranda-TLT Regen
• Dual Aggressors with AutoThruster

Everything on this list is a bad match-up for Falcons, and that list represents about 95% of the top meta at tourneys right now.

I've beat all of these with my Double Decimator build which was built to counter all of them.

Crackshot - who cares - 0 agility anyway

Omega leader - Vader Crew still hurts him

Fell/Whisper - Vader crew and ps10 Chiraneau deal with these guys no problem

TLT's - range 1 bubble - no problem

Poe/Miranda - again no trouble

Dual Agressors - no problem either - beat a double agressor B+C build on the final table at last weekends Store Championship to win it 100-25.

What's your point? This thread and my post specifically were about the Falcon. Decimators, especially with access to Imperial crew, are different beasts entirely, and anything said about the Falcon does not necessarily apply in the same way.

The basic truth is that everything in the meta right now is a bad matchup for YT-1300s

• Crack Shot BSP Swarms
• Omega Leader
• Autothruster Fel / Whisper + Palpatine
• TLTs (with or without Stress Hog)
• Autothruster Poe + Regen / Miranda-TLT Regen
• Dual Aggressors with AutoThruster

Everything on this list is a bad match-up for Falcons, and that list represents about 95% of the top meta at tourneys right now.

I've beat all of these with my Double Decimator build which was built to counter all of them.

Crackshot - who cares - 0 agility anyway

Omega leader - Vader Crew still hurts him

Fell/Whisper - Vader crew and ps10 Chiraneau deal with these guys no problem

TLT's - range 1 bubble - no problem

Poe/Miranda - again no trouble

Dual Agressors - no problem either - beat a double agressor B+C build on the final table at last weekends Store Championship to win it 100-25.

What's your point? This thread and my post specifically were about the Falcon. Decimators, especially with access to Imperial crew, are different beasts entirely, and anything said about the Falcon does not necessarily apply in the same way.

As you can tell from most of the posts here, your initial reason for the post is wrong. It is still used. I've seen falcons at every tournament around my area since before the nerf and still continue to see them along with other large base turret ships.

I also see T-65's, defenders, bwings, etc. You folks spend too much time crying about certain ships not being used or whatever. Stop crying and start flying them. A good pilot can take most lists and do fairly well with them.

The large base points nerf was supposed to bring the number of decimator/falcon lists down at the competitive level and it did that so what exactly is YOUR point?

The basic truth is that everything in the meta right now is a bad matchup for YT-1300s

• Crack Shot BSP Swarms
• Omega Leader
• Autothruster Fel / Whisper + Palpatine
• TLTs (with or without Stress Hog)
• Autothruster Poe + Regen / Miranda-TLT Regen
• Dual Aggressors with AutoThruster

Everything on this list is a bad match-up for Falcons, and that list represents about 95% of the top meta at tourneys right now.

I've beat all of these with my Double Decimator build which was built to counter all of them.

Crackshot - who cares - 0 agility anyway

Omega leader - Vader Crew still hurts him

Fell/Whisper - Vader crew and ps10 Chiraneau deal with these guys no problem

TLT's - range 1 bubble - no problem

Poe/Miranda - again no trouble

Dual Agressors - no problem either - beat a double agressor B+C build on the final table at last weekends Store Championship to win it 100-25.

What's your point? This thread and my post specifically were about the Falcon. Decimators, especially with access to Imperial crew, are different beasts entirely, and anything said about the Falcon does not necessarily apply in the same way.

As you can tell from most of the posts here, your initial reason for the post is wrong. It is still used. I've seen falcons at every tournament around my area since before the nerf and still continue to see them along with other large base turret ships.

I also see T-65's, defenders, bwings, etc. You folks spend too much time crying about certain ships not being used or whatever. Stop crying and start flying them. A good pilot can take most lists and do fairly well with them.

The large base points nerf was supposed to bring the number of decimator/falcon lists down at the competitive level and it did that so what exactly is YOUR point?

To go from them being in every list to no where. I just wanted to get people's opinions to see if they were similar to mine. to understand how and why people fly what they do. Part of X-wing is flying against the squad, but you also have to fly against the opponent and what pre-conceived notions they have goingin.

The basic truth is that everything in the meta right now is a bad matchup for YT-1300s

• Crack Shot BSP Swarms
• Omega Leader
• Autothruster Fel / Whisper + Palpatine
• TLTs (with or without Stress Hog)
• Autothruster Poe + Regen / Miranda-TLT Regen
• Dual Aggressors with AutoThruster

Everything on this list is a bad match-up for Falcons, and that list represents about 95% of the top meta at tourneys right now.

I've beat all of these with my Double Decimator build which was built to counter all of them.

Crackshot - who cares - 0 agility anyway

Omega leader - Vader Crew still hurts him

Fell/Whisper - Vader crew and ps10 Chiraneau deal with these guys no problem

TLT's - range 1 bubble - no problem

Poe/Miranda - again no trouble

Dual Agressors - no problem either - beat a double agressor B+C build on the final table at last weekends Store Championship to win it 100-25.

What's your point? This thread and my post specifically were about the Falcon. Decimators, especially with access to Imperial crew, are different beasts entirely, and anything said about the Falcon does not necessarily apply in the same way.

As you can tell from most of the posts here, your initial reason for the post is wrong. It is still used. I've seen falcons at every tournament around my area since before the nerf and still continue to see them along with other large base turret ships.

I also see T-65's, defenders, bwings, etc. You folks spend too much time crying about certain ships not being used or whatever. Stop crying and start flying them. A good pilot can take most lists and do fairly well with them.

The large base points nerf was supposed to bring the number of decimator/falcon lists down at the competitive level and it did that so what exactly is YOUR point?

To go from them being in every list to no where. I just wanted to get people's opinions to see if they were similar to mine. to understand how and why people fly what they do. Part of X-wing is flying against the squad, but you also have to fly against the opponent and what pre-conceived notions they have goingin.

It didn't really go "no where". I still see lots of folks flying the falcon, mostly Chewie and Han though which is what they ran before. I love seeing the list diversity at competitive events these days. There is a different strategy now compared to before for flying the falcon. You have to be more defensive and elusive to avoid arcs.

In my Han/Miranda build, I bait with Miranda and kill with Han. I throw her out and then slam into them so I can fly past, regen and attack. Han flanks and just wrecks.

I think the biggest thing with any list today(especially in the current meta) is that you have to have a strong strategy and plan.

This includes what asteroids/debris you are going to use, where you are going to put them and what their purpose is going to be. You have to decide how you are going to fly your build. Are you going to go into the asteroid field or skirt around it? Are certain ships going to be blockers and/or bait?

Paul Heaver is a good example of a great player. He has a solid strategy with each of his builds against the other builds out there. 1 strategy doesn't fit all builds just like 1 build doesn't just dominate against all others.

Sure if you put a meta build in the hands of a good player they are going to win or place very well. A poor player can also play a meta build and completely fail due to a complete lack of strategy.

I think people focus too much on "what" to fly instead of "how" to fly. Pick a list you like, especially if it includes Han or Chewie, and learn how to fly it effectively. Looking at List Juggler shows that quite a few different type of builds are winning.

I have 4 tournament builds that I use and 1 of them is the Han/Miranda one. My Double Decimator list is another one and I have 2 scum lists that use hwk's and ywings(all named pilots) All 4 of those builds have a different strategy in general and very different strategy against meta builds.

After I create a list I think has good synergy I start to think about how to fly it against certain builds.

The builds I mentioned in my post above, that I had no issues with the Double Decimator list, is the "holy grail" of lists you need to be able to counter with a good solid strategy. All 4 of my lists have specific ways of dealing with all of those builds.

Wish I could like Ynot's post more than once. This is not a card game. There is so much more to winning than looking at interactions on paper.

Now, if we can just reduce the number of Soontir Fels we see in tournaments, I might be happy....

Now, if we can just reduce the number of Soontir Fels we see in tournaments, I might be happy....

There are so many Fel counters available. He's great, but has huge weaknesses to certain things. I don't see how he won't decline.

Now, if we can just reduce the number of Soontir Fels we see in tournaments, I might be happy....

I hardly see him now and when I do he doesn't place well anyway. Too many good counters now and Omega Leader is a much better cheap ace to put alongside vader and palpmobile which allows you to put prockets, etc on vader. and other stuff on the palpmobile.

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

TLT's have slowed down around here. Their range 1 bubble has killed them around here. Everyone knows how to counter them and I haven't seen 1 win since early fall last year.

I think the key with the falcon against tlt heavy lists is to get into range 1 as quick as you can. This past weekend and the SC I won, my son played a quad tlt unhinged list with omega leader+juke+comm relay, patrol leader with vader and palpmobile with fcs and won quite easily against it.

Wish I could like Ynot's post more than once. This is not a card game. There is so much more to winning than looking at interactions on paper.

Of course, which is why lots of crappy players finish at the bottom of tournaments with championship-winning net decks. But that doesn't mean the fiction that a great player could win a tournament with a crappy squad is true. Give even Paul H or Jeff B a squad with Garven, Jek, and Hobbie, and I'm pretty darn certain they wouldn't get anywhere near making the cut of a tourney.

Which is why to win any big tournament you need (1) an amazing squad (the on-paper deck) AND (2) solid mistake-free play (table decisions) AND (3) some luck in pairings and dice. Just having one of those things is not enough in a reasonably-sized tourney of good players.

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

TLT's have slowed down around here. Their range 1 bubble has killed them around here. Everyone knows how to counter them and I haven't seen 1 win since early fall last year.

Wow, so according to this thread your meta has lots of T65s and Defenders and literally no one has run a TLT since early last fall?! Not a single stresshog?! Not a single Miranda? No offense, but that really takes away all the credibility of your meta. No wonder you think all these ships are so darn viable and competitive. If I had the luxury of such a meta, I'm sure I could successfully run a lot broader range of ships, too.

Wish I could like Ynot's post more than once. This is not a card game. There is so much more to winning than looking at interactions on paper.

Of course, which is why lots of crappy players finish at the bottom of tournaments with championship-winning net decks. But that doesn't mean the fiction that a great player could win a tournament with a crappy squad is true. Give even Paul H or Jeff B a squad with Garven, Jek, and Hobbie, and I'm pretty darn certain they wouldn't get anywhere near making the cut of a tourney.

Which is why to win any big tournament you need (1) an amazing squad (the on-paper deck) AND (2) solid mistake-free play (table decisions) AND (3) some luck in pairings and dice. Just having one of those things is not enough in a reasonably-sized tourney of good players.

You could even have 2 of those 3 and not win but if your squad is "different" it just means that you will have do 2 much better so you aren't relying on 3 as much.

#3 of your list is the least important or relevant. A really good player relies much less on dice luck and pairings have more to do with strategy than luck.

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

TLT's have slowed down around here. Their range 1 bubble has killed them around here. Everyone knows how to counter them and I haven't seen 1 win since early fall last year.

Wow, so according to this thread your meta has lots of T65s and Defenders and literally no one has run a TLT since early last fall?! Not a single stresshog?! Not a single Miranda? No offense, but that really takes away all the credibility of your meta. No wonder you think all these ships are so darn viable and competitive. If I had the luxury of such a meta, I'm sure I could successfully run a lot broader range of ships, too.

why? because no TLTs?

honestly, I understand the internet loves to throw a lot of excessive focus on whichever bogyman pops up at a given time, but TLTs taken on their own aren't really that good. Whichever TLT spam pops up around here gets slapped down by the legions of Palp aces and bro bots, and invariably the other generics have to tango with them to (and generally end up not doing so well)

Now, TLTs with stress mechanics do quite a bit better, but I'm positive I'm the only person who played them around here

basically, though, not having TLTs in a meta doesn't mean a thing. Palp aces and brobots are many times scarier than even the spamiest of Y-wings, which will always be low PS and predictable due to lack of positioning capabilities + exploitable doughnut hole

Wish I could like Ynot's post more than once. This is not a card game. There is so much more to winning than looking at interactions on paper.

Of course, which is why lots of crappy players finish at the bottom of tournaments with championship-winning net decks. But that doesn't mean the fiction that a great player could win a tournament with a crappy squad is true. Give even Paul H or Jeff B a squad with Garven, Jek, and Hobbie, and I'm pretty darn certain they wouldn't get anywhere near making the cut of a tourney.

Which is why to win any big tournament you need (1) an amazing squad (the on-paper deck) AND (2) solid mistake-free play (table decisions) AND (3) some luck in pairings and dice. Just having one of those things is not enough in a reasonably-sized tourney of good players.

You could even have 2 of those 3 and not win but if your squad is "different" it just means that you will have do 2 much better so you aren't relying on 3 as much.

#3 of your list is the least important or relevant. A really good player relies much less on dice luck and pairings have more to do with strategy than luck.

You never rely on luck. But like it or not, this is a game of random pairings and dice. If either of those things go heavily against you, it can shut down a tourney run even if you have (1) and (2) in spades.

If I bring Soontir and I happen to pair in my first two rounds against the only two opponents in attendance with Vader Crew on a Decimator, that's a really really bad draw for me, and there's nothing I can do to prevent this (outside of hoping I don't pair against it, given that it should be pretty rare since Vader Crew is of marginal value against TLT Y-Wings and Rebel Regen-ers).

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

TLT's have slowed down around here. Their range 1 bubble has killed them around here. Everyone knows how to counter them and I haven't seen 1 win since early fall last year.

Wow, so according to this thread your meta has lots of T65s and Defenders and literally no one has run a TLT since early last fall?! Not a single stresshog?! Not a single Miranda? No offense, but that really takes away all the credibility of your meta. No wonder you think all these ships are so darn viable and competitive. If I had the luxury of such a meta, I'm sure I could successfully run a lot broader range of ships, too.

why? because no TLTs?

honestly, I understand the internet loves to throw a lot of excessive focus on whichever bogyman pops up at a given time, but TLTs taken on their own aren't really that good. Whichever TLT spam pops up around here gets slapped down by the legions of Palp aces and bro bots, and invariably the other generics have to tango with them to (and generally end up not doing so well)

Now, TLTs with stress mechanics do quite a bit better, but I'm positive I'm the only person who played them around here

basically, though, not having TLTs in a meta doesn't mean a thing. Palp aces and brobots are many times scarier than even the spamiest of Y-wings, which will always be low PS and predictable due to lack of positioning capabilities + exploitable doughnut hole

Of course spam TLT is terrible.

But TLT Miranda and the Stress-Hog are two giant terrifying pieces of the meta right now, and if a meta doesn't include them that creates a really different environment. About half the Rebel squads here can be expected to have a Stress Hog, so if you're bringing any kind of action-dependent ace in your squad, you had sure as heck be prepared for some kind of strategy against it.

eh, they're quite beatable

never got an auto-win v Palp aces just because I brought stresshog and miranda

even had them color coordinated, but no luck

Edit:

Also, the 26 point stressy has a 26 point counter in 1 point astro Biggs. Gotta shoot to stress; gotta stress Biggs

Really opens up rebel options if you're worried about stress, such as ptl bb8 Ello or (in wave 8) Sabine conners

Not much room for him and han though

Depends on your local meta. If TLTs are big then pancakes really suffer from the consistent 8 points of damage per turn.

If your meta has a lot of Aces or Palp+Ace then PS11 Fat Han and Super-Regen Poe/Corran can hurt them bad...especially if the Ace is Whisper.

We have a guy that flies Fat-Chewie and Eden Vrill. That is also a pretty stout combo.

TLT's have slowed down around here. Their range 1 bubble has killed them around here. Everyone knows how to counter them and I haven't seen 1 win since early fall last year.

Wow, so according to this thread your meta has lots of T65s and Defenders and literally no one has run a TLT since early last fall?! Not a single stresshog?! Not a single Miranda? No offense, but that really takes away all the credibility of your meta. No wonder you think all these ships are so darn viable and competitive. If I had the luxury of such a meta, I'm sure I could successfully run a lot broader range of ships, too.

I never said it had lots of T65's and defenders but it does have them. It has TLT's too but just not that many. Stresshogs are plentiful but they only shoot in arc so it isn't that hard to avoid them.

Take a look at the top 16 at worlds.