Hi Everyone,

I recently attended a SC and the following happened:

In the third round, there was a match in which one player tabled another. After the match was complete and the two players were counting out points to fill out the results sheet, the victorious player decided to concede. Is this appropriate? The players informed me that it's in the rules that you can concede at any point during a match, but when I look up the X-Wing Tournament Rules, I find the following in the End of Match section on page 3:

Each tournament match ends in one of the following ways:

• At the end of a game round, all of one player's ship are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw.
• At the end of the current round, the match time limit has been reached. (If time is called mid-round, players must finish the round.) Each player calculates their score by adding together the total squad point value of their opponent's destroyed ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships. The player with the greater score receives a win, and his opponent receives a loss. If the winning player's score is fewer than 12 points more than his or her opponent's score, that player receives a modified win. If both players have the same score, the game ends in a draw.
• A player voluntarily concedes defeat at any point during the match. The conceding player receives a loss and the opponent receives a win.

To me it seems as though if the match is played until all of one player's ships are destroyed, the match ends. Therefore you can't beat an opponent by destroying all of their ships, and then concede, because the match has already ended according to the rules.

The player who conceded said that since he had already won a SC, he wanted his friend to have the win so he'd have a better shot at winning. The concession made the other player one of the only 3-0 players at the event going into the last round. He went on to win the SC.

To me, this seemed like an act of collusion/boosting, which is also expressly forbidden by the rules.

How does everyone else see this?

That definitely sounds like collusion. TO should not have allowed it if he knew what was going on.

You are looking at an older version of the tournament rules. End of Game is only checked for at the end of a round. So it is now possible to destroy your opponent's last ship and then concede. This would give your opponent a full win and should give each player 100 MoV.

Never use a search engine to pull up FFG documents. Go to the X-Wing website and get them from there. That way you always get the current version.

Sounds like the very definition of collusion to me. Winner could always just give his stuff to the other guy if he won again.

Collision, no question.

You are looking at an older version of the tournament rules. End of Game is only checked for at the end of a round. So it is now possible to destroy your opponent's last ship and then concede. This would give your opponent a full win and should give each of player 100 MoV.

This was actually from the newest version of the Tournament Rules I got straight from the website. It's Version 4.0.1/UPDATED 1.27.2016 Is there something newer? Or is there another section that you're referring to, because I can't find what you're describing.

You are looking at an older version of the tournament rules. End of Game is only checked for at the end of a round. So it is now possible to destroy your opponent's last ship and then concede. This would give your opponent a full win and should give each of player 100 MoV.

This was actually from the newest version of the Tournament Rules I got straight from the website. It's Version 4.0.1/UPDATED 1.27.2016 Is there something newer? Or is there another section that you're referring to, because I can't find what you're describing.

Nope. I just didn't read the rules you actually quoted. I only read what you wrote.

To me it seems as though if the match is played until all of one player's ships are destroyed, the match ends. Therefore you can't beat an opponent by destroying all of their ships, and then concede, because the match has already ended according to the rules.

Previously, the match ended as soon as the last ship for one player was destroyed.

Here's what I'm referring to:

• At the end of a game round, all of one player's ship are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw.

Here's what I'm referring to:

• At the end of a game round, all of one player's ship are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw.

Ahhh, ok. I don't know if I was clear enough either in my description. It wasn't as though they were still playing when the concession decision was made. They had already finished the round they were in and actually started picking up ships. It was a few minutes later that the concession actually happened, while they were filling out the results sheet. To me, that doesn't seem like it's counted as still in the round in which all of one player's ships are destroyed.

That is boosting man. It is a strong word and I know most would prefer the safe route of "against the rules" but forfeiting all of your points to another player in hopes to further his chances of a win is cheating. The TO certainly should not have allowed this especially if it was obvious they were friends. Noting that you didn't say "I would've done better if not for this." I assume it probably didn't directly affect you, though it could have, it is still upsetting to hear your experience was tainted.

So, conceding as mentioned in the rules only covers the loss/win part?

And MoV is counted normally?

That's weird.

So, take for example if a player was up against a particular list and figured he'd have no hope of winning. He could concede the match in the first round and give his opponent the smallest MoV possible with a win (100) while giving himself the highest possible loss MoV?

Depending on the tournament and round number, a player could hypothetically use this to keep someone from making the cut, purely out of spite (especially given the recent changes to the round structure). It's surprising to me that that's the way it works; I'd have thought that all of the conceding player's ships are considered destroyed for scorekeeping purposes.

So, conceding as mentioned in the rules only covers the loss/win part?

And MoV is counted normally?

That's weird.

So, take for example if a player was up against a particular list and figured he'd have no hope of winning. He could concede the match in the first round and give his opponent the smallest MoV possible with a win (100) while giving himself the highest possible loss MoV?

Depending on the tournament and round number, a player could hypothetically use this to keep someone from making the cut, purely out of spite (especially given the recent changes to the round structure). It's surprising to me that that's the way it works; I'd have thought that all of the conceding player's ships are considered destroyed for scorekeeping purposes.

Ignoring whether the rules allowed him to concede or not, as others have said his reason for wanting to conceded is collusion and should have disallowed on those grounds alone, and resulted in some sort of penalty.

Here's what I'm referring to:

• At the end of a game round, all of one player's ship are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw.

Ahhh, ok. I don't know if I was clear enough either in my description. It wasn't as though they were still playing when the concession decision was made. They had already finished the round they were in and actually started picking up ships. It was a few minutes later that the concession actually happened, while they were filling out the results sheet. To me, that doesn't seem like it's counted as still in the round in which all of one player's ships are destroyed.

In that case it was too late to concede. The match was over.

If he would have concede immediately after destroying the last ship, it still would have been technically legal.

Collusion and sketchy as hell, but it would have been a legal window to concede.

If he felt bad about already winning an SC and wanted to give someone else a shot he could have bowed out of the cut and let whoever the next player in line was take his spot.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

a ship with one health left and you have 4 attacks, you say "I concede" and dont roll the dice.

Thats ok, but conceding after you roll is not ok? Look its a good matchup for the guy, in the same way that I can get paired with a list that will eat my lunch. The conceding player obv knew he would be conceding at the beginning of the game. Sounds like OP has some sour grapes issues he needs to work out.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

a ship with one health left and you have 4 attacks, you say "I concede" and dont roll the dice.

Thats ok, but conceding after you roll is not ok? Look its a good matchup for the guy, in the same way that I can get paired with a list that will eat my lunch. The conceding player obv knew he would be conceding at the beginning of the game. Sounds like OP has some sour grapes issues he needs to work out.

No sour grapes. Just trying to understand the rules. I asked at the event and I was told that you can concede at any point, even after the fact. It didn't sit right so I decided to look it up. It seems clear but I still wanted the community to weigh in because I may be reading it differently/incorrectly.

I do believe it was dishonest, and I do believe it was boosting. But, as someone above pointed out, it didn't affect me in an acute way. The rankings after that game are in theory all jacked up, but I wasn't affected more than the other players.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

a ship with one health left and you have 4 attacks, you say "I concede" and dont roll the dice.

Thats ok, but conceding after you roll is not ok? Look its a good matchup for the guy, in the same way that I can get paired with a list that will eat my lunch. The conceding player obv knew he would be conceding at the beginning of the game. Sounds like OP has some sour grapes issues he needs to work out.

No sour grapes. Just trying to understand the rules. I asked at the event and I was told that you can concede at any point, even after the fact. It didn't sit right so I decided to look it up. It seems clear but I still wanted the community to weigh in because I may be reading it differently/incorrectly.

I do believe it was dishonest, and I do believe it was boosting. But, as someone above pointed out, it didn't affect me in an acute way. The rankings after that game are in theory all jacked up, but I wasn't affected more than the other players.

Right.

If I bring four naked HWKs to a tournament, am I effectively boosting everyone that gets lucky enough to play against me? He got lucky to get paired against the guy that didnt want to win. He got lucky to do so in a favorable round, and unless the other guy asked him to concede, its not collusion. Collusion requires BOTH parties to actively engage with each other for that.

This is a completely different scenario if the guy says, "You should drop" and the other says, "For you? Sure"

It seems to me this was a case of, "Eh, Ive already won, good luck"

See the difference? The first is collusion, the second is not. Would you still call it boosting if he dropped against a guy he didn't know?

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

a ship with one health left and you have 4 attacks, you say "I concede" and dont roll the dice.

Thats ok, but conceding after you roll is not ok? Look its a good matchup for the guy, in the same way that I can get paired with a list that will eat my lunch. The conceding player obv knew he would be conceding at the beginning of the game. Sounds like OP has some sour grapes issues he needs to work out.

So are we to the point of splitting hairs on whether a concession could be offered DURING an attack? Until the attack is resolved it clearly is happening "during the match" and by the rules should be allowed. Now what actually constitutes something happening "during the match" but outside of game play is really something that only a TO could determine. It would seem to me that a "match" lasts from the time you sit down to the time the results are submitted.

To me scoring a 100-100 point game as a "full win" because of Concession is complete BS and certainly where I would have the greatest issue. I mean they set the FAQ up so that the Pup couldn't get a full win with a 100/100 MoV and instead turned into a 3 point modified win with 101/99 MoV.

If someone knows he is going to let the other person have the win at least he should be respectful to everyone else to make the concession when there is still a ship on the board to surrender to. I'm certainly not a fan of the meta-metagame where people would attempt wholesale tournament manipulation which I know happened in MtG but I'm not sure that X-Wing really has that level of possible manipulation.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

a ship with one health left and you have 4 attacks, you say "I concede" and dont roll the dice.

Thats ok, but conceding after you roll is not ok? Look its a good matchup for the guy, in the same way that I can get paired with a list that will eat my lunch. The conceding player obv knew he would be conceding at the beginning of the game. Sounds like OP has some sour grapes issues he needs to work out.

No sour grapes. Just trying to understand the rules. I asked at the event and I was told that you can concede at any point, even after the fact. It didn't sit right so I decided to look it up. It seems clear but I still wanted the community to weigh in because I may be reading it differently/incorrectly.

I do believe it was dishonest, and I do believe it was boosting. But, as someone above pointed out, it didn't affect me in an acute way. The rankings after that game are in theory all jacked up, but I wasn't affected more than the other players.

Right.

If I bring four naked HWKs to a tournament, am I effectively boosting everyone that gets lucky enough to play against me? He got lucky to get paired against the guy that didnt want to win. He got lucky to do so in a favorable round, and unless the other guy asked him to concede, its not collusion. Collusion requires BOTH parties to actively engage with each other for that.

This is a completely different scenario if the guy says, "You should drop" and the other says, "For you? Sure"

It seems to me this was a case of, "Eh, Ive already won, good luck"

See the difference? The first is collusion, the second is not. Would you still call it boosting if he dropped against a guy he didn't know?

If the other guy had conceded during the match, it may have been fishy, but still well within the rules. But in that situation, its well within the rules.

In this particular case, it's a violation of the rules and collusion. Conceding 3-5 minutes after the match ends, according to the rules, isn't permitted. So, when you have two friends who are counting out points for one's loss, and the victorious player decides to concede so his friend has a better shot at winning, IF the losing player agrees to that concession which isn't permitted by the rules and then signs the results sheet to that effect, yes, that is 100% collusion. The right thing to do would've been to record the results of the match IAW the match actually played, not to agree to something outside of the rules because it's good for you. Honesty and good sportsmanship are important here. Bending/breaking the rules to win is not good sportsmanship.

If one player concedes then the non-conceding player would receive a full win with 200 MOV, the conceding player gets a loss with 0 MOV. The match should be reported as 100-0 for the non-conceding player, this is why you should never concede a match you are "going to lose" and just play it out, especially if you have destroyed any of your opponents ships. Conceding a match will net you zero MOV points and a loss.

So are we to the point of splitting hairs on whether a concession could be offered DURING an attack?

We already went there.

If IG88A with 4 health is attacking his opponent's last ship and there aren't enough evades rolled to keep that ship alive, can the opponent concede at that point to keep IG88A from regaining a shield.

If one player concedes then the non-conceding player would receive a full win with 200 MOV, the conceding player gets a loss with 0 MOV.

No. The conceding player scores like normal. Concession just immediately destroys all off the conceding player's remaining ships.

This smells funny.

Now if the Concession was made DURING the final attack that should have destroyed the one player's final ship that would be one thing but doing it afterwards makes no sense at all. Trying to conceed after you've destroyed all of your opponent's ship certainly shouldn't be a WIN for either party and at best should be considered a draw as now neither side has any ships remaining.

Conceed while you're destroying your opponent but he's still got a ship on the board is perfectly legal and should result in a full win although it's very odd.

Destroying all of your opponent's ships and then conceding should be a draw at best and really shouldn't be allowed at all.

really? thats where you draw the line?

Since the line -- from the rules -- is "during the match" or not, sure. That's a good place to draw the line. At any point before the match is over, a player can concede. That concession can still be shady/boosting/collusion/whatever, but as far as the rule goes for when conceding is legal, that's legal. But after the last attack roll, the last damage, the last ship is on the board? That's no longer during the match. So on top of the reason for concession perhaps being a rules violation, the timing of it is also against the rules.

If one player concedes then the non-conceding player would receive a full win with 200 MOV, the conceding player gets a loss with 0 MOV.

No. The conceding player scores like normal. Concession just immediately destroys all off the conceding player's remaining ships.

Looks like I was miss reading the rules. I have always heard it the way I discussed it, maybe that was in an older version of the rules. The way I thought it was would at least encourage people to never concede a match, which is my philosophy when playing X-Wing in a tournament setting. Still not sure where I got my version of the concession rules from...