I am a beginner and couldn't find a definitive answer to this question.

I know that winning a military challenge leads to killing off an opponent's character that he gets to choose himself.

However, in the rule book while it doesn't say that it needs not to be a participating character - it simply just says "a character under his control".

My question would be - that character has to be active and on the table or it could be a character in your hand? Because you do control those too I guess?

Thank you.

Rules Reference, Page 11

When a character is killed, it leaves play and is placed faceup on top of its owner’s dead pile.

So a character has to be in play (not in your hand) in order to be killed.

It sure is very confusing.

I know it is highly likely that the rule is just like you described it kauai196 but I just wished it was clearly written somewhere in the rule book.

Military Claim, Page 13

When a player loses a military challenge as the defending player, that player must choose a number of different characters he or she controls equal to the claim value on the attacking player’s revealed plot card, and kill those characters. The chosen characters are all killed simultaneously. If the player controls fewer

Ownership and Control, Page 14

A card’s owner is the player whose deck held the card at the start of the game. x Cards by default enter play under their owner’s control. Some abilities may cause cards to change control during a game. x A player controls the cards located in his or her out of play game areas (such as the hand, deck, discard pile, and dead pile ).

Sure, but there are plenty of effects that affect cards people control, but are restricted - by the game rules and not the card rules, to only affecting entities *IN PLAY*.

And sure, Claim is not a card effect - kauai cited the correct rulings supporting why mil claim has to be from cards in play - but the above ruling establishes that this sort of interaction is standard practice in the game.

You know, it occurs to me that while you do occasionally get the question whether or not you can "kill" cards in hand for military claim - based on this confusion that you "control" the cards in your hand - but no one has ever asked whether or not you can "kill" cards in your deck, discard pile or dead pile. Since the rules say you "control" those cards, too, if you could "kill" cards in hand for military claim, shouldn't you also be able to "kill" cards already in your dead pile for military claim?

One could say that discard pile and especially dead pile were cards that you have once controlled - however, you very much control what's in play and what's in your hand.

One could say that discard pile and especially dead pile was cards that you have once controlled - however, you very much control what's in play and what's in your hand.

Sure but Military claim is cards in Play. In your hand is not in Play.

One could say that discard pile and especially dead pile was cards that you have once controlled - however, you very much control what's in play and what's in your hand.

Sure but Military claim is cards in Play. In your hand is not in Play.

Well, the rule book never explicitly says that killing a character must come from 'cards in play'. Instead it says from 'cards you control'. That is the main source of confusion.

We will have to assume it concerns characters in play alright.

All we have is a tiny segment that first reply posted that isn't to be found at all in military challenge sections in the rule book.

Kill, Killed - Page 11

"When a character is killed, it leaves play ..."

It says they leave Play. They cannot leave Play if they are not in fact in Play. No assumptions necessary.

Military Claim When a player loses a military () challenge as the defending player, that player must choose a number of different characters he or she controls equal to the claim value on the attacking player’s revealed plot card, and kill those characters. The chosen characters are all killed simultaneously. If the player controls fewer characters than would satisfy claim, as much of the claim as possible must be satisfied.

Kill, Killed Characters can be killed by framework effects and by card abilities. When a character is killed, it leaves play and is placed faceup on top of its owner’s dead pile. Related: Dead Pile, Leaves Play, Save

One could say that discard pile and especially dead pile were cards that you have once controlled - however, you very much control what's in play and what's in your hand.

But the rules explicitly say you "control" the cards in your discard and dead pile, in the exact same list that it says you "control" the cards in your hand, in fact. The are not cards that you "once controlled," but rather cards that you DO control.

"- A player controls the cards located in his or her out of play game areas (such as the hand, deck, discard pile, and dead pile)."

So, either the use of "control" in the description of military claim applies to cards in all of those place (hand, deck, discard pile, dead pile), or none of them - based on the definition of the word "kill" - wouldn't it? There is no valid "one could say" justification here.

If a "one could say..." argument is enough to clearly indicate that a player cannot "kill" cards in his/her deck, discard pile or dead pile (because they somehow do not fully "control" those cards, despite the rules saying they do), a "the definition of 'kill' requires..." argument should be enough to clearly indicate that only cards that are in-play can be killed.

The RRG just doesn't seem to be ambiguous or confusing on this point to me as it seems to be to others.