For things like the A-wing, where you have to buy the rebel veterans (or is it Aces, I'm not at home and I can't remember) box to get the fix.

Wouldn't it make sense if they included the fix in future printings of the A-wing boxes themselves as well?

Because that way, anyone starting out new in the game won't have to buy two boxes to get the fix, they can just buy the A-wing boxes.

(do note that this comes from someone who buys every expansion no matter what)

I'm also interested to see what they'll do with future printings of the core set, and the Tie Phantom (since the rules in the box are now wrong).

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up releasing "A-wing 1.1" (etc.) in the future, with different pilot/upgrade cards, since you'll reach a point mass where there are too many upgrades and sets to buy, stock and maintain. If they introduced some form of rotation eventually (I think that's unlikely), then this would be the way to do it, but I'm curious in general.

Gotta make that money somehow.

Say you're playing a LCG and there's a card that's pretty much useless in a pack. Then, a few packs later, a single card comes out that makes your useless card absolutely spectacular! Well, now you will have to buy both boosters and will always have to do it like that and most people don't complain.

The Xwing crowd seems more entitled, but I see no difference. The fixes usually add new cool mechanics to a ship but (save the Tie Advanced) the ship still could be played without them, just not to fully efficiently.

If you want the ship and all the upgrades to run it like the meta does? Buy the "I quit" box set, sold at an eBay or gaming group near you.

The cloaking rules in the phantom packs have been updated. FFG has done this with some card fixes as well, like Expert Handling. I don't see them adding fix cards to packs for the simple reason that they want you to buy two packs not just one.

Maybe they could release a line of ace packs which collect popular meta build upgrades with a repainted ship. That would still work because the basic pack would have some different upgrades and players would then buy three packs instead of two.

Why don't they release the ships properly the first time?

Sure, for the earlier ships I understand this. But I'm tired of seeing ships that aren't "complete". Defender, M3A, possibly even starviper, I'm looking at you.

In the end I'd still rather "have" to buy a fix to bring up a ship's power level over FFG needing to nerf something that's already out. I think we're incredibly lucky that the Phantom and Large-base scoring are the only times this has really happened.

Why don't they release the ships properly the first time?

Sure, for the earlier ships I understand this. But I'm tired of seeing ships that aren't "complete". Defender, M3A, possibly even starviper, I'm looking at you.

I agree with this, but would add that the conservative approach to increasing power of naked generics also means that there is slower power creep. It looks like the approach is to design fairly low-power ships and give them nudges with upgrades until they have the right 'level'.

There is 'complete' as in the competative sense, and then there is 'complete' as in the sense of what is required to play the ship.

Every expansion is complete in the second sense... it has the ship, cards, and upgrades that make sense in the limited scope of the expansion that it is in. You never have to buy another set to get the correct dial, for instance. (Only counter example is Most Wanted... which in fact proves the point in being MORE complete than it strictly needed to be). Even the Tie Advanced, Ties and X-Wing that came with Epic Ships are complete in that sense. This is very important

But you are talking about complete in the more competative sense. Lingula above has the right of it... this game is very tightly balanced. Jousting Efficiency calculations bear that out that fact, and slight tweaks made after the fact due to upgrade cards can cause large swings in the meta. Leaving ships 'incomplete' allows the designers more leavers to tweak the game.

When it comes to "power creep" I greatly prefer the idea of trying to boost the low end to be closer to the top end without actually going over the top. If the power of ships covers a wide band I don't want to see the top go higher but would much rather see the band narrow.

While I think it would be very nice of FFG to put the "fix" cards in reprints/revisions of their original expansions that then requires altering what is in those original expansions. If we put the A-Wing fixes in the expansion what do we take out? PtL maybe? I'm not sure that would make people happy either although you could argue that most expansions include cards that could be considered junk until they aren't.

Addition:

When it comes to "complete" ships I'm not so sure that FFG is doing a great job of that anymore. Did Rebel Aces include a Cannon for its B-Wing? There can also be an argument made when FFG does happen to include an upgrade to fill a slot but that upgrade is something getting reprinted for the upteenth time and is generally regarded as poor to begin with. We probably shouldn't start in on expansions were the only upgrade included to fill a given slot is next to useless at best and possibly even harmful at worst.

When it comes to "power creep" I greatly prefer the idea of trying to boost the low end to be closer to the top end without actually going over the top. If the power of ships covers a wide band I don't want to see the top go higher but would much rather see the band narrow.

While I think it would be very nice of FFG to put the "fix" cards in reprints/revisions of their original expansions that then requires altering what is in those original expansions. If we put the A-Wing fixes in the expansion what do we take out? PtL maybe? I'm not sure that would make people happy either although you could argue that most expansions include cards that could be considered junk until they aren't.

Addition:

When it comes to "complete" ships I'm not so sure that FFG is doing a great job of that anymore. Did Rebel Aces include a Cannon for its B-Wing? There can also be an argument made when FFG does happen to include an upgrade to fill a slot but that upgrade is something getting reprinted for the upteenth time and is generally regarded as poor to begin with. We probably shouldn't start in on expansions were the only upgrade included to fill a given slot is next to useless at best and possibly even harmful at worst.

From the a-wing? THe missiles, for sure. Everybody has dozens of the things, they almost never get used.

My bottom line at the end of the day is that my pool of money isn't infinite. These types of games have never been balanced in my experience, to the extent where I honestly don't mind whether or not it is considered balanced as long as it's fun to play. At the end of the day, it isn't in their best interest to produced the best balanced game on the planet because otherwise I'm fairly certain that their profit margin's will dwindle.

So I get irritated when I have to buy the same ship again, for any reason.

Why don't they release the ships properly the first time?

Sure, for the earlier ships I understand this. But I'm tired of seeing ships that aren't "complete". Defender, M3A, possibly even starviper, I'm looking at you.

For things like the TIE Advanced sure. It could have been better at release. But for TIE Interceptors and power creep like the advent of the turret in the meta it really needed a boost by way of the Auto-Thrusters via the StarViper expansion. Far too many glass cannons were getting blow out of the sky before they even closed the range.

My bottom line at the end of the day is that my pool of money isn't infinite. These types of games have never been balanced in my experience, to the extent where I honestly don't mind whether or not it is considered balanced as long as it's fun to play. At the end of the day, it isn't in their best interest to produced the best balanced game on the planet because otherwise I'm fairly certain that their profit margin's will dwindle.

So I get irritated when I have to buy the same ship again, for any reason.

Quite the opposite; it's absolutely in their best interests to produce a well-balanced game, or no-one will play it. Just look at Attack Wing. Or Age of Sigmar. The cards are only really necessary as tournament tokens, without the tournament scene there would be a LOT less gaming and a LOT less sales of X-Wing.

You never have to buy the ships again. You may want to, and you're well within your rights to resent what is absolutely an exploitative marketing strategy on FFG's part. But you're never obliged to do anything. And unless you're playing in tournaments, you've no particular reason to ever need to buy the fixes.

[...]

You never have to buy the ships again. You may want to, and you're well within your rights to resent what is absolutely an exploitative marketing strategy on FFG's part. But you're never obliged to do anything. And unless you're playing in tournaments, you've no particular reason to ever need to buy the fixes.

Not directed at spaceinvader, thank you for qualifying your comment but I'll go on anyway.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but why is it that when someone says they "have to buy" we seem to always get the response is "you never have to buy". We know that! However I believe the comment "have to buy" was not meant to be taken literally. Sure the literal use of the word "never" may (see below) not be used appropriately in this context; but responding that way does show that arguing the semantics and the precise use of the word "never" completely misses the point and shows that the respondent didn't even understand or grasp the point of the post.

Let us make a quick list:

• Game - Check
• Luxury - Check
• Game + Luxury = You don't have to buy it. - Check

On the other hand.

• To stay current in the meta and field your squads competitively you need to stay up with the components, upgrades, fixes and buffs. Even if the fix/buff/upgrade for your $15.00 USD ship comes in an expansion for $100.00 USD.
• Meaning: If that is your goal you "have to buy" - Check

I'm off my soap box and will apologize upfront.

No, I absolutely understand what you're saying. You want to buy the things. So do I. But I never have to. Given the choice, I will. but I consciously make myself stay away from the idea that I MUST buy these things. They are luxury pastimes, not essentials.

(Also, the fix for your £10 expansion is about £10 on ebay)

fly casual...just buy what you want and play what you want. Proxy any cards you think you need to enhance your fun. Hell, make up new upgrades if you want!

Tournament players: quit yer bitchin and pay up. This is the real deal, if you want to be competitive you have to cough up the dough, just like any other miniature/collectible tournament scene. FFG's business model has kept this game thriving, it's not about to change, and it could be MUCH worse.

Next?

I'd really prefer it that they release ships that have actually been thoroughly playtested and don't need fixes in order to perform at an adequate level. But I agree that when fixes are needed and justified, they should be more available than the TIE Advanced fix being buried in a $100 epic ship that you will never use. That's a total Games Workshop move there.

The problem with play testing is that they start with a concept that's utterly broken and dial back from there, it's almost never that a shop is over costed for its performance in the initial run. The Starviper and Ewing both were majority dialled back to what seemed reasonable but then after a longer run, actually ended up being over costed. It's impossible to tell. As with the Toe advanced? I bet you that was play tested to insanity and made total sense, for wave 1. Then they learned their mistakes.

Gotta make that money somehow.

At the same time you want to keep this interesting for new players and people on a budget. P2W is the last thing you want for a healthy game to grow a global community of customers around it.

Still, imo the A-Wing is one of the really minor cases, you get another A-Wing + B-Wing from the Rebel Aces Expansion, while A-Wing Swarms are ... not common.

So you get a good value of the the rebel aces expansion, just like you get decent value out of imperial aces expansion. Still, updating a reprint of the standard A-Wing Package would be nice to keep the old packages interesting for buyers.

One positive side-effect of adding most updates via "aces of …", "veterans of …" style expansions is that you get unique models. In many cases you can just buy one of the classic packages and add one of the updated double packages and you are golden. That is really a good way to add value for us customers. I am really looking forward to this style of re-visiting older releases and it is for sure a lot more interesting this way than to pack updates for small-ships into huge ships for epic play.

I'd really prefer it that they release ships that have actually been thoroughly playtested and don't need fixes in order to perform at an adequate level. But I agree that when fixes are needed and justified, they should be more available than the TIE Advanced fix being buried in a $100 epic ship that you will never use. That's a total Games Workshop move there.

With a changing meta and a evolving game some forms of imbalances are inevitable and to some degree even desireable, because they are fun for players to figure out. So constant tweaks to balance via new cards and interactions of the ships with those cards are a really good way to keep the game fresh without falling victim to power creep. And on top of that does this make a good business model.

And yeah, fixes in $100 epic ships are a **** move and as a matter of fact the only reason why I did not buy the advanced, nor the epic when I started to play. GW business practises are not acceptable and I will survive on not completing my collection and denying ffg a few bucks on that specific issue.

edit: So, yeah, I really hoping for a TIE/x1 updated box. Because I actually love the TIE Advanced, especially in the TIE/AD version AKA Avenger. Though the Avenger would use a different model than the x1 as well, so naturally I would be totally fine with just getting a Avenger expansion with the x1 updates for the older TIE Advanced models.

When it comes to "power creep" I greatly prefer the idea of trying to boost the low end to be closer to the top end without actually going over the top. If the power of ships covers a wide band I don't want to see the top go higher but would much rather see the band narrow.

While I think it would be very nice of FFG to put the "fix" cards in reprints/revisions of their original expansions that then requires altering what is in those original expansions. If we put the A-Wing fixes in the expansion what do we take out? PtL maybe? I'm not sure that would make people happy either although you could argue that most expansions include cards that could be considered junk until they aren't.

Why should we take anything out? Just either add simply those cards or print their effect directly on the ship cards and include that onto those new ship cards the old fixes can not applied anymore to prevent double dipping. Printing a few extra cards is not really an issue here.

If all these cards are only included for the people that happen to play official tournaments, I wonder why they are there at all in every single expansion. Either customer is in for a bad deal: the tournament player cannot simply buy the exact cards he wants, and casual players get piles of redundant cardboard.

No, I absolutely understand what you're saying. You want to buy the things. So do I. But I never have to. Given the choice, I will. but I consciously make myself stay away from the idea that I MUST buy these things. They are luxury pastimes, not essentials.

(Also, the fix for your £10 expansion is about £10 on ebay)

I'm on disability benefits and a small military pension, I have to think very carefully about any money I spend on luxuries/hobbies. I'm playing rebels, have both core sets, the falcon and Rebel Aces. I also bit the bullet and saved up and bought the rebel transport as I wanted the red sqn pilots and that's the only way to get them. I don' have PTL, autothrusters, TLT or half the other upgrades (tons of missiles/torps) so I look on the sites like EBay for specific cards I need, thought most of them are pricey.

If I could afford anything I wanted I'd have a lot more, but I slowly built up my old 40K stuff with a mix of new and secondhand (fortunately I love scale models, building/rebuilding and painting/detailing) and now rarely play - GW prices are a joke.

I also play Dust, which is fun, moving a squad at a time instead of complete armies is easier for me than 40k.

I saw X wing being played, being a Star Wars fan, had played Sails of Glory, movement was similar so had a go and liked it. I'm really not into tournaments etc, I just want to play, have fun, amd improve my game.