With Sabine inc, maybe more light will be shed on conners and less on stressy

For example, I have this SC list

Miranda (TLT c3po seismic seismic)

Warden (TLT tactician)

Stressy

By subbing out c3po for Sabine and turning the k into a conner carrier (nets + extra + aslam + autoblaster) I still have 26 points to drop

This could normally be stressy, but the control offered by conners makes it redundant and its limited (unmodified) damage potential leaves me wanting in this particular list. Ergo, r4d6 Biggs

He gives me 3 dice and a soak for the maybe ordnance meta, not to mention opposing stressys

The best squads I've seen are the ones that really seem designed to take on those "auto-include" ships. For example, at my first Store Championship game, I ran into a Palp-Aces list that incorporated FCS Yorr instead of a regular shuttle, replacing Soontir with Juno Eclipse. It's a list that basically makes R3-A2 into a waste of two points.

I have ships that I consider to be auto-include at certain price points. The Imperial 26-point slot permanently belongs to Omega Leader. 14 points belongs to Wampa, while 15 points goes to a Crackshot Black. I rarely consider flying Soontir anymore, as there are just too many ways to hard-counter him. For Rebels, I consider R3-A2 to be more auto-include than the actual Y-Wing, especially if I'm running ships that can use Astromechs and won't see much benefit from other droids.

Continue to persist with the delusion that there is no such thing as an autoinclude, and that 35 point Soontir isn't an autoinclude.

Anything that assaults our precious hugbox must be stopped. Autoinclude, that's /hyperbole/.

Continue to persist with the delusion that there is no such thing as an autoinclude, and that 35 point Soontir isn't an autoinclude.

Anything that assaults our precious hugbox. Autoinclude, that's /hyperbole/.

Everything is auto-include, until it isn't.

C3-PO and Gunner were considered auto-include until Paul Heaver beat them with R2-D2 crew.

35-point Soontir is auto-include until he faces Bumpmasters, Blount swarms, and Crack Squadron pilots who force him to roll really, really well to avoid taking damage.

Stresshogs are auto-include until you start seeing Captain Yorr, 4-LOM, Hera crew, Electronic Baffles and high-PS swarms who can wipe a PS2 ship off the map before it even has a chance to fire. Or just face a mob of ships that don't particularly care about stress or double-stress.

By all means, let me continue to plan my squads around the stuff you consider to be auto-include. It makes it a lot easier to predict ways to beat you.

Meh I do fine without soonts

Running my silly deathrain + ol, I highly considered taking soonts for TLTs

Then I remembered that Vader hits harder and out PS soonts, making him the ideal anti Palp ace (which had won lit every SC previously)

Worked wonders

So as many of you know, Paul Heaver mentioned awhile back that the TLT stressbot ywing should be an auto include ship if you are playing rebels.

Up until this past week I hadn't played x-wing in over 2 months. I've gotten 4 games in on vassal during this time. Three of the 4 games were against rebel lists, and all 3 had the TLT stressbot ywing.

I hope this is not a trend starting. I realize it's a powerful ship for the points, but this game will get boring fast if you start seeing a certain ship for every faction's lists. I know Soontir is border line auto include for imperials already as well.

If it keeps showing up a ton I wonder if the stress bot will be nerfed to limit it to one use per round or something.

The stresshog is only an autoinclude because every single list you face has 1-2 invincible hyper action economy Acewings in it. Palp Aces is literally 3 autoinclude ships, and many Rebel lists are just VI regen Poe and 62/63 points of something else.

Maybe if Soontir with Palpatine wasn't genuinely ******* invincible one wouldn't need the ability to put 2 stress on something.

When there is a nerf to Soontir and just doing a hard green 2 and doing 3 actions every turn, (5 if you count palp and Autothrusters) maybe then we can talk about nerfing the one god **** thing that can deal with Soontir.

Is Palp Aces not overpowered enough Imperial players? Have to nerf the stresshog now?

conner im

Deathrain, baby!

My 30-40 point Acewing of choice is Vader with VI, ATC, Engine Upgrade, and Prockets.

Continue to persist with the delusion that there is no such thing as an autoinclude, and that 35 point Soontir isn't an autoinclude.

Anything that assaults our precious hugbox must be stopped. Autoinclude, that's /hyperbole/.

Nothing to do with hug boxes, I think a good majority of the people on this forum are group mind drones that follow jousting numbers and net lists way to hard. You on the other hand are on the other spectrum, raging lunatic that's "against the system, man" or hipster pilot, you can choose. There are good ships with low skill floor and high ceiling, and then some ships that are high skill floor but low ceiling. People tend to gravitate to the prior, and that includes a lot of the so called "auto includes".

I played in a SC the other day. I faced a stresshog/miranda/poe, and I wiped it out. this game is a lot about skills too, not only what list you bring.

I see far more VI Poe, Vader and Soontir than I do stresshogs in my meta. I do see a lot of TLT though it is on varied ships.

It's like waves on a beach .. There was a time when every Imp player had a TIE swarm, then every Rebel had a Fat Han, then every Imp had a Soontir, then every Rebel had a Stresshog, then every .. had a ..... so on and so forth.

It's like they have a name for it..META something...

Continue to persist with the delusion that there is no such thing as an autoinclude, and that 35 point Soontir isn't an autoinclude.

Anything that assaults our precious hugbox. Autoinclude, that's /hyperbole/.

Everything is auto-include, until it isn't.

C3-PO and Gunner were considered auto-include until Paul Heaver beat them with R2-D2 crew.

35-point Soontir is auto-include until he faces Bumpmasters, Blount swarms, and Crack Squadron pilots who force him to roll really, really well to avoid taking damage.

Stresshogs are auto-include until you start seeing Captain Yorr, 4-LOM, Hera crew, Electronic Baffles and high-PS swarms who can wipe a PS2 ship off the map before it even has a chance to fire. Or just face a mob of ships that don't particularly care about stress or double-stress.

By all means, let me continue to plan my squads around the stuff you consider to be auto-include. It makes it a lot easier to predict ways to beat you.

I myself fly a 58/59 point Boba and Vader meta hatred squadron. The very fact that these builds of certain ships and lists including them are so common that you can easily just fly the same thing everyone else is with some tweaks and counter them handily proves my point about autoincludes.

C-3PO is still auto include. Now you have a choice of two autoinclude falcon builds, one with gunner and one with R2-DCrew.

"Soontir isn't autoinclude, I just took him and Vader out of the list and copy and pasted 26 point Omega Leader and 44 point Buzzsaw Whisper into the build. Come on, I used /Yorr/ instead of an Omicron Group Pilot for my Palp Aces."

if you start to extrapolate too many auto-includes, then we've basically hit a balanced state of affairs

havn't seen Omega Leader or Buzzsaw whisper anywhere near auto-include status, mostly because Omega Leader takes palpie's spot and Buzzsaw whisper gets nommed by Vader

The best squads I've seen are the ones that really seem designed to take on those "auto-include" ships. For example, at my first Store Championship game, I ran into a Palp-Aces list that incorporated FCS Yorr instead of a regular shuttle, replacing Soontir with Juno Eclipse. It's a list that basically makes R3-A2 into a waste of two points.

I have ships that I consider to be auto-include at certain price points. The Imperial 26-point slot permanently belongs to Omega Leader. 14 points belongs to Wampa, while 15 points goes to a Crackshot Black. I rarely consider flying Soontir anymore, as there are just too many ways to hard-counter him. For Rebels, I consider R3-A2 to be more auto-include than the actual Y-Wing, especially if I'm running ships that can use Astromechs and won't see much benefit from other droids.

First off, I am not a great player. But what I have learned from playing semi weekly and going to a couple tournaments helped me design a squad that let me place in the top four of my last tournament. I came up with a list to hard counter Aces and when I flew it well, it worked like a charm. In the last tournament I went to four of the five lists I saw had aces, the fifth was bro bots.

I am building my next competitive list based on my expectation that I will see a stress hog, Poe, Soontir, and Vader. I'm working on a new list that is more of a swarm but importantly, I don't care about stress hogs and I have two ways to try and deal with opposing aces. The lists that would give me the most trouble are well flown bro bots, TIE swarms, or a variation of BBBBZ. I only saw one bro bot list at my last tournament and no TIE swarms or BBBBZ type lists.

Wait... Did para go from hating on turrets to hating on arc dodgers now? God, have we come full circle? Now I'm waiting for a really good straight up non repositioning or turret ship that gets popular so he can hate on that next.

It's been clear for a while that he hates X-wing in general. He thinks the game has gone downhill since the moment he picked it up.

I don't think he hates X-wing - or rather I don't think he hates X-wing in particular. Para hates all things for you see, he's just a troll. Not an internet troll mind you, but a real live troll that lives under bridges and demands tolls from travelers. Of course, in this case he doesn't really maintain the bridge (a la Witcher) but instead provides the valuable service of illustrating an extreme position so others can find themselves along the spectrum. His negativity is more of a measuring stick - do you hate something as much as Para?

When a super jouster comes out that "ruins" ace-wing for him and we'll get to hear how this new ship is making the game awful and then we can all think about how it does or doesn't actually legitimately "ruin" anything but provides options that may be good or bad for certain lists.

The troll may not be pretty and it may not always have the nicest things to say but by embodying the worst of the forum talk it helps us humans understand how much of us is man and how much of us is monster. And isn't that really the essence of being human?

Carry on ParaGoomba Slayer, for your works are necessary and your road is wrought with anger and disappointment. May you never be satisfied so we can all appreciate what is means to be alive!

*Obviously a needlessly elaborate joke and Para I always love reading your opinions, even if they tend to be the polar opposite of everything I've ever thought. But good on you for going against the grain - even if it's silly, you know what you are about and at the very least I'm sure we all appreciate your candor*

I think, and have said for a while, that there's a huge groupthink problem in X-wing. A big group of players hangs out on the same 3-4 forums, listens to the same 3-4 podcasts, and builds the same handful of lists. At least partly as a result, when Pail Heaver says "stresshog is an auto-include," lots of people take it as gospel.

While Pauls 'Autoinclude' comment was probably hyperbole, you don't get to be 3 time world champion of something if you don't know what you're talking about. Dumping 2 stress on a target at range 2-3 is an exceptionally powerful ability, and I agree with Paul that you'd be hard pressed to find a better 26 points in a Rebel list.

I think there are lots of ways to spend points that are about as good as stressbot. That is, I'm not at all in opposition to the idea that it's a powerful tool that's relatively inexpensive for what it does--but I don't think that makes it an autoinclude, especially when it's in a faction that has a lot of those tools.

Basically, of course Heaver knows what he's talking about! But lots of people who don't know what they're talking about, or at least don't know to the same extent he does, swallowed what he had to say without taking it apart and evaluating it first.

Wait... Did para go from hating on turrets to hating on arc dodgers now? God, have we come full circle? Now I'm waiting for a really good straight up non repositioning or turret ship that gets popular so he can hate on that next.

It's been clear for a while that he hates X-wing in general. He thinks the game has gone downhill since the moment he picked it up.

I don't think he hates X-wing - or rather I don't think he hates X-wing in particular. Para hates all things for you see, he's just a troll.

He's not a troll, though. At least, not in the classical sense of Internet trolls--rather, I think it's a performance art. He's genuinely an X-wing player, but I think he puts on a persona when he interacts here.

Obviously a needlessly elaborate joke and Para I always love reading your opinions, even if they tend to be the polar opposite of everything I've ever thought. But good on you for going against the grain - even if it's silly, you know what you are about and at the very least I'm sure we all appreciate your candor*

Speak for yourself, please. I know what he is, too, but it doesn't bring me any pleasure or satisfaction to deal with him.