one hero is doomed
he gets hit from a attack and takes 4 damage, one more for doom, can you make the pins and needles on that doom damage?
and if you cant do that, if a heroe is damaged whit 1 damage and have doom can you make the pins and needles on the damage and then add the doom
I would say no because pins and needles says exactly one damage but dooms damage is during the assign damage phase of combat right? What I did in one instance is refused to spend a surge so that only one damage was suffered against a hero and then he was full on stamina so got another extra point of damage which was exactly enough to knock out a hero. I love pins and needles.
Doom is additional damage. It is not its own instance of damage. That means if a hero suffers 1 wound +1 from doom, he's suffering 2, so pins and needles couldn't trigger.
Actually, since "Doomed" increases all the wound you suffer by 1, if a hero is doomed it's impossible to trigger pins and needles on him (unless somehow he reduces his suffered wound, such as if Jain suffers 1 as damage and 1 as fatigue).
Doom is additional damage. It is not its own instance of damage. That means if a hero suffers 1 wound +1 from doom, he's suffering 2, so pins and needles couldn't trigger.
Actually, since "Doomed" increases all the wound you suffer by 1, if a hero is doomed it's impossible to trigger pins and needles on him (unless somehow he reduces his suffered wound, such as if Jain suffers 1 as damage and 1 as fatigue).
I do not think that part about doomed is correct...
Both the cards trigger on the same condition, a figure suffering one (or for doomed one or more) damage, there is nothing that prevents you from triggering pins and needles first, just like you could decide the order of end / start of turn effects.
Doom is additional damage. It is not its own instance of damage. That means if a hero suffers 1 wound +1 from doom, he's suffering 2, so pins and needles couldn't trigger.
Actually, since "Doomed" increases all the wound you suffer by 1, if a hero is doomed it's impossible to trigger pins and needles on him (unless somehow he reduces his suffered wound, such as if Jain suffers 1 as damage and 1 as fatigue).
I do not think that part about doomed is correct...
Both the cards trigger on the same condition, a figure suffering one (or for doomed one or more) damage, there is nothing that prevents you from triggering pins and needles first, just like you could decide the order of end / start of turn effects.
I disagree because the damage from doomed is not a separate instance of damage. The figure does not suffer 1 damage, and then separately suffer 1 more damage because of doomed. Doomed increases the amount of damage suffered by 1, such that when the figure would suffer 1, it instead suffers 2. When it would suffer 2, it instead suffers 3, etc.
Suppose "Word of Misery" is in play. Are you suggesting that the hero would suffer 1 damage (and a fatigue), and then 1 damage from doomed (and then a fatigue)? I would argue this is not the case, that is, the hero suffers 2 damage and then just 1 fatigue due to word of misery.
Edited by Zaltyre
Doom is additional damage. It is not its own instance of damage. That means if a hero suffers 1 wound +1 from doom, he's suffering 2, so pins and needles couldn't trigger.
Actually, since "Doomed" increases all the wound you suffer by 1, if a hero is doomed it's impossible to trigger pins and needles on him (unless somehow he reduces his suffered wound, such as if Jain suffers 1 as damage and 1 as fatigue).
I do not think that part about doomed is correct...
Both the cards trigger on the same condition, a figure suffering one (or for doomed one or more) damage, there is nothing that prevents you from triggering pins and needles first, just like you could decide the order of end / start of turn effects.
I disagree because the damage from doomed is not a separate instance of damage. The figure does not suffer 1 damage, and then separately suffer 1 more damage because of doomed. Doomed increases the amount of damage suffered by 1, such that when the figure would suffer 1, it instead suffers 2. When it would suffer 2, it instead suffers 3, etc.
Suppose "Word of Misery" is in play. Are you suggesting that the hero would suffer 1 damage (and a fatigue), and then 1 damage from doomed (and then a fatigue)? I would argue this is not the case, that is, the hero suffers 2 damage and then just 1 fatigue due to word of misery.
Each time you suffer 1 or more X, suffer 1 additional X
Each of your attacks gains:
: Discard this card or token.
That is doomed.
So, yes, it is suffer one additional damage. It is not a separate INSTANCE, but you miss the core argument:
It is a matter of which triggers first. Doomed will of course invalidate the trigger for Pins and Needles, however, it works perfectly when on the event of suffering one damage (as a hero), the overlord immediately triggers pins and needles and THEN lets doom apply to increase the damage by one more: 1 damage + 2 damage and 1 fatigue + 1 damage.
Of course, given that the golden rule explicitly states that timing conflicts are resolved by the player whose turn it is, a doomed and poisoned hero would have the right to first resolve his conditions both, before the overlord plays pins and needles, which then of course he cannot do anymore.
I understand your argument, but I still do not agree. I do not believe there is a timing conflict because the hero never suffers 1 wound. Doomed alters the amount of wound suffered before the hero suffers anything, so there is no valid trigger for Pins and Needles. I think your interpretation would be exactly the case if doomed were a separate instance of damage.
Aloha,
I have another question revoling around pins and needles. If an mirror image from a conjurer is killed, he suffers 1 damage and 1 fatigue.
He is therefore eligible to be the target of pins and needles. Can pins and needles trigger when the conjurer is at max fatigue?
I hope you can explain the reasoning behind it.
Greetings Funkfried
Edited by FunkfriedI gather you could be asking one of two things:
1) If a hero is at max fatigue and suffers 1 damage, can "Pins and Needles" trigger?
Sure. The fatigue "Pins and Needles" makes him suffer will just be suffered as a wound.
2)If a hero is at max fatigue and suffers 1 damage and 1 fatigue, can "Pins and Needles" trigger?
No, I don't think so. The fatigue he suffers will be suffered as a wound, meaning he'll suffer 2 wound, which doesn't fit the "exactly 1 wound" requirement.
2)If a hero is at max fatigue and suffers 1 damage and 1 fatigue, can "Pins and Needles" trigger?
No, I don't think so. The fatigue he suffers will be suffered as a wound, meaning he'll suffer 2 wound, which doesn't fit the "exactly 1 wound" requirement.
That means damage is always calculated in a single step although fatigue and damage are two different things? The damage-step is only explained as part of combat.
I would argue that both are seperate triggers and therefore have to be calculated seperatly. Especially since the damage is not the result onf direct attack on the hero but an effect from his class card.
Edited by Funkfried
2)If a hero is at max fatigue and suffers 1 damage and 1 fatigue, can "Pins and Needles" trigger?
No, I don't think so. The fatigue he suffers will be suffered as a wound, meaning he'll suffer 2 wound, which doesn't fit the "exactly 1 wound" requirement.
That means damage is always calculated in a single step although fatigue and damage are two different things? The damage-step is only explained as part of combat.
I would argue that both are seperate triggers and therefore have to be calculated seperatly. Especially since the damage is not the result onf direct attack on the hero but an effect from his class card.
I disagree. As a counter-example, let's say "Word of Misery" is in play when your conjurer's image token is destroyed (and he is already at full fatigue). Would you be willing to say that the conjurer takes 1 damage (+1 fatigue from WoM which becomes a damage) and then a fatigue, which he takes as damage (+1 fatigue from WoM which becomes a damage).
Alternately, if the hero were doomed: are you saying he'd take 4 damage when his image token is destroyed (1+1 and then 1+1).
The wound and the fatigue are suffered at the same time- there is nothing separating the suffering of damage from the suffering of fatigue (which is suffered as damage in this case). Therefore, it's my position that it would be a single instance of suffering damage, not two. Referring back to the above examples, that means I think if WoM were in play, it would be a total of 3 damage (1 damage and 2 fatigue as damage) and doomed would also be 3 damage (1 damage, 1 fatigue as damage, and 1 additional damage.)
That is a good example thank you. I still like the plot card though
That is a good example thank you. I still like the plot card though
