I have recently gained a bit of an obsession with creating stat blocks for new species in Edge of the Empire. Characteristics not mentioned count as 2, and wound/strain thresholds count as 10+ brawn and 10+ willpower.

Zeltron:

Presence 3

Cunning 1

1 rank in charm

Distracting Behavior talent: This is from Fly Casual. They can send a maneuver to suffer strain equal to ranks in Cunning, then make an equal number of NPCs (at short range) gain an extra threat automatically on all checks.

St 11+

Wt 9+

85 XP

Zeltrons can have charm ratings of up to 3 during character creation. (However, I personally let any species have any skill rated as high as they want during character creation)

Zeltrons are already in the species menagerie/oggdude's character generator.

The Managerie is as unofficial as this version, so there is no reason to not have other ideas.

At the very least, when creating stats for species, people should make it clear that they’ve already consulting the USM and the GMAC thread on this forum, and then provide their own version of what they think that species should look like — and why they disagree with the previous version(s).

IMO, of course.

I think giving Zeltrons two free ranks in Charm is much too beefy.

Also not convinced that they'd have a higher strain threshold and lower wound threshold. If anything, the reverse might seem true, as they're a bit more capable of bouncing back from the many physical excesses they indulge in, but generally don't seem as hardy in terms of mental fortitude.

As for Cunning being their low stat... I can see cases both for and against, but for me personally I don't see them as being dull-witted and can they can generally think pretty quickly on their feet as needed. They do seem to be a species given to acting on impulse, which is why for the USM we went with giving them a Willpower of 1.

Zeltrons are considered quite gullible, so I figued that cunning 1 would make sense.

Um, no they're not. At least not the examples I can think of. . . . .

Even if they were gullible, Deception opposed Discipline, and Discipline is based on Willpower.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeltron/Legends

At the end of the first paragraph, it says, "They were also known for being extremely gullible."

While discipline does oppose deception, I still feel that narratively, being gullible would imply a lack of cunning.

The accuracy of Wookieepedia can be... questionable at times. Many of the pages try to cite their sources, but that page has almost none. Ultimate Alien Anthology gives them ability modifiers for high charisma, low constitution and willpower, and the description brings up their hedonism a lot, so low Willpower/Discipline makes more sense.

At the very least, when creating stats for species, people should make it clear that they’ve already consulting the USM and the GMAC thread on this forum, and then provide their own version of what they think that species should look like — and why they disagree with the previous version(s).

IMO, of course.

So some fans are more important than others? The creators of other fan made things were not required to consult anything prior to contributing, nor should new people. They should consult the books, but there should NEVER be a requirement that 1 fan is required to care at all what another fan made prior to them being ALLOWED to make a contribution. Does that mean if someone wants a new take on the character sheet they have to look at every single other character sheet that anyone else made first? no, they can just make one. Same with a species idea.

The only thing he really did wrong was do his species each in a separate thread rather than all in 1. This method has the same tired "it is already in the USM" line from a different (or the same) person in every thread.

Also, the "activity" that Zeltrons are so well known for would likely induce strain (if it were to be represented in game) Hence, they should have a high strain threshold. (11+ willpower) Lowering willpower, however, would offset this.

So some fans are more important than others? The creators of other fan made things were not required to consult anything prior to contributing, nor should new people. They should consult the books, but there should NEVER be a requirement that 1 fan is required to care at all what another fan made prior to them being ALLOWED to make a contribution. Does that mean if someone wants a new take on the character sheet they have to look at every single other character sheet that anyone else made first? no, they can just make one. Same with a species idea.

Any work to be done in a space and published where others can or are expected to comment on it, well the people doing that work would be well-advised to not only consider previous work in the space, but to make explicit reference to it and to state their opinions of that previous work. If they find the previous work lacking, then they should be prepared to support their claims.

Ignore previous work in a given field at your own peril.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeltron/Legends

At the end of the first paragraph, it says, "They were also known for being extremely gullible."

Dani? Not gullible Deliah? You bet your ass she wasn't gullible. Demagol? Not only was he not gullible. he ran against type by being goddamned brutal for a zeltron.

So yeah, that's a load of crap.

So some fans are more important than others? The creators of other fan made things were not required to consult anything prior to contributing, nor should new people. They should consult the books, but there should NEVER be a requirement that 1 fan is required to care at all what another fan made prior to them being ALLOWED to make a contribution. Does that mean if someone wants a new take on the character sheet they have to look at every single other character sheet that anyone else made first? no, they can just make one. Same with a species idea.

Any work to be done in a space and published where others can or are expected to comment on it, well the people doing that work would be well-advised to not only consider previous work in the space, but to make explicit reference to it and to state their opinions of that previous work. If they find the previous work lacking, then they should be prepared to support their claims.

Ignore previous work in a given field at your own peril.

If the U in USM didn't mean Unofficial, I would probably agree that commenting on it, is appropriate. Instead of putting arbitrary hurdles for new folks to jump through, why not do it this way. Rather than forcing them to read ANYTHING fan made, why not comment on why you think the version your prefer went the same way, or why it went different (depending on which way it went). That way you are not requiring prostration before people that did something just as fan made as they did.

Back on topic, I feel the stat block is not game breaking and seems fair enough that it would be fun to see in play.

If the U in USM didn't mean Unofficial, I would probably agree that commenting on it, is appropriate. Instead of putting arbitrary hurdles for new folks to jump through, why not do it this way. Rather than forcing them to read ANYTHING fan made, why not comment on why you think the version your prefer went the same way, or why it went different (depending on which way it went). That way you are not requiring prostration before people that did something just as fan made as they did.

I’m not “requiring prostration”. Nothing of the sort.

However, I feel it would be appropriate and courteous if people would do things like read FAQs before they post questions that do tend to get frequently asked.

I also feel it would be appropriate and courteous if people would read other work in a given space, before just blindly assuming that everyone wants to read what they have to say on the subject.

Failure to do so means that you are much more likely to wind up being discourteous and even offensive to the very people you’re trying to present your idea to.

To reiterate — I don’t care if your name is Albert Einstein or J. Fred Muggs, you ignore previous work at your own peril.

I think it's more due to the fact that they are so outgoing and carefree, that they are not as guarded as other species. I would totally give them the cunning hit. It's something easily fixed with starting XP

I would only give them one rank in charm though, but give them some other perk based on racial species. Perhaps a blue on social checks.

What about dropping 1 free rank in charm, and replacing it with a free rank in Distracting Behavior. Keep the XP total as is.

What about dropping 1 free rank in charm, and replacing it with a free rank in Distracting Behavior. Keep the XP total as is.

Great idea. I will edit the profile.

At the very least, when creating stats for species, people should make it clear that they’ve already consulting the USM and the GMAC thread on this forum, and then provide their own version of what they think that species should look like — and why they disagree with the previous version(s).

IMO, of course.

So some fans are more important than others? The creators of other fan made things were not required to consult anything prior to contributing, nor should new people. They should consult the books, but there should NEVER be a requirement that 1 fan is required to care at all what another fan made prior to them being ALLOWED to make a contribution. Does that mean if someone wants a new take on the character sheet they have to look at every single other character sheet that anyone else made first? no, they can just make one. Same with a species idea.

The only thing he really did wrong was do his species each in a separate thread rather than all in 1. This method has the same tired "it is already in the USM" line from a different (or the same) person in every thread.

I think what Brad is getting at is that we should consider our audience. The unofficial menagerie came from this very community. It is so widely accepted that it is included in one of, if not THE most used tool in oggdude's character generator. Your audience is guaranteed to make the comparison. We're going to be interested in your opinion as to why you prefer your version.

My first thought when I heard the subject was, "Aren't Zeltron in the menagerie, already?" It might be unfair but i'm keenly aware of life's unfairness.

I couldn't play a Zeltron at my gaming table. My character is charming and has even had romantic feelings for other characters (including one doofus pc but we don't speak of that) but I don't see a Zeltron holding back from.... you know. And my GM is my dad!

A few years ago, this would have been a non issue but I'm a little older now and it would be fun to see my character actually in love. I mean truly in love. Deeply in love. But telling my dad stuff like that is weird for both of us! You should have been around to hear the, "MY LITTLE GIRL" rants when he found out there was a sex scene in Breaking Dawn, which I read right after I turned 13. I don't mean that I have to describe sex in any detail more than having it happen off screen.. or just implied. Sex aside, describing to your dad how your heart flutters around a certain npc or how you hope they'll kiss you or that they make you feel... well...

It isn't like sex doesn't happen in Star Wars. Padme didn't get a baby bump from holding hands with Anakin and Ben Solo is proof that Leia may have kissed her Brother but she did a bit more with Han... a lot more... INFINITELY more, I pray. Maybe that's the new hope??? Ewwww.... i'm glad i'm blind because this line of thought would make it hard to look at my brother. Double, no triple.. wait! Giga-ewwww!

Omg, I can feel myself blushing! Lol... which, I guess, proves my point. I couldn't ever play a zeltron.

For something like the above reasons, some of my players are dreading when these get an official write-up...

Of course, you can always play one that was ugly or prudish or otherwise went against type.

Personally I think they're trying a bit too hard; twi'leks are my first pick for the 'sexy alien' archetype.

And that name... ugh. Doesn't sound very Star Wars-y to me. Feels like the 'Zeltrons' should be helping the Mekon fight Dan Dare or something.

The big problem with the USM is it is incorrect.

• It was created during the Beta
  • On the first page it lists "free rank of coerce", which no longer exists.
• It has incorrect stats for published species
  • Species that have made it to published species are incorrect.
    • Take the first page again.... Aqualish,
      • They have the Characteristics all at 2, the published version has 3 Brawn and 1 Intellect.
      • They list 12+ Brawn 10+ Willpower, the published lists 11 + Brawn and 8 + Willpower.
      • They list a free boost to swimming, the published version uses -1 setback from cold and wet environments
      • They list 100 Starting XP, the published lists 90, plus a free rank in brawl and resilience.
      • The published species also has 3 sub species for more variety.
      • Basically they are different enough that it is a total different species.
      • There is no need to go through every published species that is in the USM because they ALL suffer from this.
• It has not been updated in a long time.
  • It is pretty clear the current "unofficial" species design method that is listed in the recent Keith Kappel interview is not followed.
  • New game builders are not required to consider Xbox 360 architecture before developing for xbox one.
  • If the USM wants to even be in the conversation, it needs to be updated and the published species removed.
• Due to the changes between accepted methods and wildly different stat blocks any GM considering using ANYTHING from the USM needs to take heed.
  • What if a Player selects a USM species stat block and then during the course of play, that species gets published..
    • Does the Player get to switch to the new one, if it is more fun?
    • Does the Player get stuck with the old one even if the differences are large (like the Aqualish)?
    • How does that affect XP and the other Players?

So, in summary, USM should not be considered at all, let alone in comparison, except as a lesson on why to be very careful with fan made materials.

A note to PrettyHaley, I am not stating these comments because this is my work, but I have written other fan materials (some that I even shared) and the thought that some other fan is deemed higher importance just because their work was done earlier seems unfair. It is MMO style thinking that only the "I've been here since beta" folks matter more. That is unacceptable and it is putting unneeded barriers to entry for new folks. If you want a community to thrive you need to not put up walls.

As I said before rather than require the earlier work be consulted at all, instead of the first comment being "isn't that in the USM" it should have been "First, I appreciate your contribution." then "There is a fan made product called the USM, that also did a stat block for this species, after studying both, here are my comments comparing the two."

Instead, the community went straight to "hey noob, our stuff is better, I will sit here and wait while you consult it before contributing anything relevant to the conversation."

Stat blocks are not published so often that a more welcoming method was unable to be followed.

I would like to point out:

The big problem with the USM is it is incorrect.

• It was created during the Beta
  • On the first page it lists "free rank of coerce", which no longer exists.
• It has incorrect stats for published species
• It is pretty clear the current "unofficial" species design method that is listed in the recent Keith Kappel interview is not followed.

My copy of the Edge of the Empire Beginner Game, which I ordered from FFG, uses the beta skill names; coerce, deceit, pilot, etc..

Of course they're incorrect, as they were based on guesswork compared to official species.

Kappel says quite clearly that the method he used is not the official method, and there is no true official method, and he was just describing his method.

I would like to point out:

• It is pretty clear the current "unofficial" species design method that is listed in the recent Keith Kappel interview is not followed.

My copy of the Edge of the Empire Beginner Game, which I ordered from FFG, uses the beta skill names; coerce, deceit, pilot, etc..

Of course they're incorrect, as they were based on guesswork compared to official species.

Kappel says quite clearly that the method he used is not the official method, and there is no true official method, and he was just describing his method.

I also list it as unofficial. My comment was "They didn't do this other pretend thing" you responded with "this thing you mentioned is pretend"... The only response possible is ... yes, I stated that.

My point was "in comparing things to accepted unofficial things, the USM even fails to do this". So if people want to force new stuff to follow the USM, the USM should follow similar arbitrary rules.