My local store is friendly enough...but it's filled with loads of old crap, and very little current merchandise. As a result they've moved their gaming space to a hidden location (which is dirty and otherwise scruffy-looking, windowless and with lots of chairs and tables that are broken - you get the picture?) on another floor - like the Isla de Muerta you can't find it unless you've already been there.

So A) I can't find no products there (usually) and B) there isn't any incentive to play there.

also WizKids is doing the same thing

which "same thing"?

Eclipse is the best board game ever!

Catan is far to repetitive (I'll state... for me...here).

Nice to see Armada is doing well, honestly I do not understand why retailers keep the base game priced so high comparatively to online retailer prices, yes they have potentially more overheads, but my local shops have probably had the same stock in, sat there for the better part of a year, surely selling it for £20 less and shifting a few dozen, is better than 1-2 per year.

They may have agreements with their distributor that they have to replenish stock to a certain level at all times. This is an issue that has recently started to contribute towards local gaming stores in my area dropping some very well known game systems. If you drop the price to a net loss and have to re-buy a product you couldn't sell all of to begin with there won't be much incentive to buy five more copies.

Glad to hear official confirmation that FFG still had plans for Armada.

i Facebook messaged FFG about Armada news. I will copy-paste the text:

Just hold on. That's all we can say.

See, just hold hold. The sky is rising indeed. :-) plenty of combos to work with in the mean time. Experts, built two non-optimal builds that are just for fun and let your opponent pick a side after you come up with a home reed objective/scenario. Plenty to do in the meantime.

See, just hold hold. The sky is rising indeed. :-) plenty of combos to work with in the mean time. Experts, built two non-optimal builds that are just for fun and let your opponent pick a side after you come up with a home reed objective/scenario. Plenty to do in the meantime.

Um hm, Um hm.

Suuuuure

I NEED MY PRACK!

You know what its called when you take your prack star destroyer off its stand?

Freebasing.

You know what its called when you take your prack star destroyer off its stand?

Freebasing.

*groan*

You know what its called when you take your prack star destroyer off its stand?

Freebasing.

*groan*

With regards to the idea of single faction starters, there's nothing to stop FFG from releasing them in future if it turns out that the high initial cost is hurting sales. I just don't thing they'll make that move based on past behaviour. (Also, I fear that such sets would contain upgrades that you can't get elsewhere, therefore meaning that I'd need to buy another 2 starters >.<)

You mean a kind of "Fleet pack?" Mmm...no, I don't think they'd do that. Everything (ship-wise) in the core set is available on it's own already. Besides, if you're doing it as a way of getting people to buy into the game and avoid the high initial cost, it would do the opposite. I mean sure, you can sell a "starter fleet" maybe cheaper than the core set, but you still need someone else to buy one too. As well as the dice and other game assets driving the cost of a fleet pack higher than just getting the ships themselves.

And yes, if they ever did do this? I fear they would do it as "Sector Fleets." Theme the entire fleet with unique cards and possibly even paint schemes, with missions just for them. Like the clone trooper figures repaints from Hasbro, or the Armada version of the "Aces" packs.

Yeah I could see them doing packs. Like a couple of small ships or a couple of small and a medium ship. If they make the pricing advantageous or on par with getting separate blisters and they add unique upgrades it could be pretty compelling. Plus if they replace existing ship types it might generate quite the secondary market of used ships that can be exploited by new players.

I mean all the gubbins you need to play the game (dice/templates/damage deck/obstacles/etc), the rules reference, and one or two ships. Even better (in my eyes) would be such a pack with no ships at all - the main concern is allowing players to buy what they need without forcing them to pay the off-faction tax.

For those of you who are about to say to just split a box:

- Such a tactic only gives you the gubbins for a single player, so is no use for 2 players starting together.

- Buying 2 starters for 2 players is doubling the cost, therefore ignoring the original issue in the first place. Plus, is 3 VSDs (Inc the obligatory expansion) really going to get played that often anymore?

- If you're not starting up with someone else, you need to go to the time and effort of finding someone who already plays to offload the extra ships on. Someone who will already have the starter ships and upgrade cards

All in all, the starter cost is a significant hurdle to players wanting to join in with Armada. As someone who is in an area for which the last tourney only brought in 2 players, I'm starting to worry that that hurdle may be too high.

For every unfortunate area that only has 2 players at a Tournament, there is an area that has 2 Stores and brings in 16+...

Its just too difficult to judge things on a 'worldwide' basis with our limited anecdotal informational views...

Would areas with greater uptake for the game be harmed by the game becoming more accessible to new starters?

I mean all the gubbins you need to play the game (dice/templates/damage deck/obstacles/etc), the rules reference, and one or two ships. Even better (in my eyes) would be such a pack with no ships at all - the main concern is allowing players to buy what they need without forcing them to pay the off-faction tax.

So unless I'm misunderstanding you, essentially you're saying take the Victory out of the starter set. Or take out the CR-90 and replace the Neb with an Assassin, and sell them that way?

Marketing-wise, I'd say this is a bad idea. You would want different box art for each faction, need different plastic inserts for the ships, two lines producing (or one line splitting production between two products), all to sell a core set that still doesn't let you play out of the box.

You'll have created a box set that might be 20 dollars cheaper (maybe 30), but now you can't play the game with anyone unless they've bought one as well (making the net purchase actually higher). The current core set can be purchased, and two friends can sit down and play as is, right out of the box.

Now if you're saying you don't think you should be forced to get ships of both factions just to get the gubbins (since the ships are all sold separately), then I see your point. Sort of. You can already buy just the dice. And the movement tool. Pretty sure the rules are online somewhere, and a lot of the tokens come with the ships themselves.

So, you kind of already have what you're describing?

Honestly, I think the lack of players in your area is less about price and more about interest in the game. Ranked #3 over-all, the price clearly can't be having that detrimental of an impact. As has been noted elsewhere, the price point on the core set is actually (debatable) right in line with other games of its type. Axis and Allies, Zombicide, Firefly, Smallworld, even Pathfinder/Dungeons and Dragons run near the same price point to purchase and actually be play ready. Heck, it's actually cheaper than some games of its type (coughcoughWarhammercough).

Do I agree that the price tag is keeping a few players out? Sure, I'll concede that. Heck, I know just such a case personally (though his interest was tepid before he saw the cost). But I'll counter with you could give copies of the game away for free, and there will still be players that won't step up for one.

I live in an area where there was only one shop that held Armada nights, and that shop just closed, so I feel your pain. But I think Drasnighta has the scope of it; we can't judge the hobby by our lfgs alone.

As to fleet packs, I don't see any way (in my limited vision) they could do fleet packs any cheaper than the core set already is, so I can't see why a player would be inclined to buy them unless they did something like they did with the Aces packs in X-Wing. Which, if they did a fleet pack, I wouldn't put past them; as I remarked already.

@Arowmund

The key things needed in the core set which are not present elsewhere are the obstacles, range rulers, and the damage deck. If FFG were to put together a non-factional (e.g.) no ship "booster" with all of these items, so that players could buy those, and then separately acquire dice, maneuver tools, and ships/squadrons, that would also work fine.

Cost of entry is an interesting point for a game like Armada where the pieces are few, but expensive.

Would areas with greater uptake for the game be harmed by the game becoming more accessible to new starters?

In theory? Yes, absolutely. By making the game cheaper, you cut into the margins of not just FFG, but also the store where you purchased the game. Smaller margins mean lower incomes, and that means less capital to pay the light bill, cover rent, design, play-test, and produce more ships. I've worked in retail, and been responsible for figuring prices and maintaining margins, and it's often tighter than you might think. For every dollar we sold, we made 2 cents profit. Some companies go as high as 5. I'm not an expert, I'm only quoting what I know from experience, so you major in this field and folks with doctorates, please don't crucify me.

My point is yes, making the game cheaper just to try and pick up a few on the fence players who, in all likelihood, probably won't continue to support the game over time, could absolutely hurt everyone.

@Reinhold

I almost mentioned that exact idea.

Thing is, to devil's advocate the idea; for starters I think the obstacles are a trivial issue. They're already just artwork on cardboard, so just draw something on post-it notes.

Even a blister-pack with just the range ruler and damage deck is shot down by the whole stance of "I want only what I need and keep it cheap." I can already hear someone saying "I don't need another damage deck, I just want another range finder. Why can't they sell just that?" It rapidly turns into "Why have a core set at all?" and by putting extra packaging design into each piece, you're going to eliminate any savings you might have achieved.

I'd absolutely not complain if FFG lowered the costs, but it's also easy to see how quickly this issue can go from legitimate to an excuse. I've bought a lot of things in my lifetime, as have we all, I'm sure. And if there was something I really, really wanted, the price didn't matter. If I didn't have the money, I saved for it. If I didn't get it because of the price, it was because I didn't honestly want it that badly. I think this is true for pretty much everyone.

Regardless of this, I do think we'll see the range rulers released in a more sturdy version (in fact, I think I've seen at least one on Shapeways already). I've already seen plastic holders for the movement dials in X-Wing, even ship card holders for Armada on Shapeways.

Cardstock doesn't have the durability to last forever if it's used a lot, so I expect FFG to put out their own, more sturdy version of this, at least.

My only concern is the damage deck. I am the only supplier of the gear in my small group (I a also one of the lucky few who's wife will play on occasion!). I have bought a starter, at LEAST 1 of every expansion (2+ of several), a dice pack and an additional maneuver tool (suffice it to say I have done my share to support sales of this game). I refuse to buy two starter sets simply for the damage deck, but each player really should have their own deck. Not happening in my games. FFG obviously sees value in selling individual parts of much of the core set, I only wish they would sell that one other part.

Really, the damage deck should be sold separately anyway. It's too easy to lose the odd card sooner or later, and losing a single card shouldn't require the purchase of an entire new 2 player starter. As an additional advantage, selling damage decks separately would allow for sealed deck rules as tournaments considered important enough for deck fixing to be a concern.

Really, the damage deck should be sold separately anyway. It's too easy to lose the odd card sooner or later, and losing a single card shouldn't require the purchase of an entire new 2 player starter. As an additional advantage, selling damage decks separately would allow for sealed deck rules as tournaments considered important enough for deck fixing to be a concern.

Now this I am 100% behind. Takes me back to the days of sealed deck Magic Tournaments. Okay, so back to when I was interested in them.

But would the sales of this product support actually making it? And again, using the same stance taken from the start, should you really have to buy a whole new deck just to get the one or two cards you lost? Or want?

With respect (and I mean that, not being snide) I think this where the secondary market comes in. I hate the idea of seeing Armada cards laid out in cases like Magic or Yu-gi-oh, but...

Even in Xindell's position, it sounds like he's footing the bill for other people to play, and I myself see no reason the other players couldn't at least chip in for him to get a second set since they're the reason he needs one.

It seems it's just people trying to play for free; and that won't support the hobby.

Honestly, for myself, I see this as little more than "I want something but I don't want to pay for it!" You do have some very good points, and I'm not trying to be dismissive, I just don't see it the way you do.

Regardless of what FFG, I think it's safe to say they'll never make everyone happy.

Really, the damage deck should be sold separately anyway. It's too easy to lose the odd card sooner or later, and losing a single card shouldn't require the purchase of an entire new 2 player starter. As an additional advantage, selling damage decks separately would allow for sealed deck rules as tournaments considered important enough for deck fixing to be a concern.

Now this I am 100% behind. Takes me back to the days of sealed deck Magic Tournaments. Okay, so back to when I was interested in them.

But would the sales of this product support actually making it? And again, using the same stance taken from the start, should you really have to buy a whole new deck just to get the one or two cards you lost? Or want?

With respect (and I mean that, not being snide) I think this where the secondary market comes in. I hate the idea of seeing Armada cards laid out in cases like Magic or Yu-gi-oh, but...

Even in Xindell's position, it sounds like he's footing the bill for other people to play, and I myself see no reason the other players couldn't at least chip in for him to get a second set since they're the reason he needs one.

It seems it's just people trying to play for free; and that won't support the hobby.

Honestly, for myself, I see this as little more than "I want something but I don't want to pay for it!" You do have some very good points, and I'm not trying to be dismissive, I just don't see it the way you do.

Regardless of what FFG, I think it's safe to say they'll never make everyone happy.

While I agree, it would be nice if other players chipped in on this, the fact is that none of them are interested enough in the game for that to realistically happen. They all enjoy it, but if they never played again they wouldn't miss it. As a lover of the game, with a family situation that makes it very difficult to drive the hour it takes to get to my FLGS, my only option if I want to play even remotely regularly is to supply the game for my friends. Since I have the prack bug anyway, I have plenty of stuff for that, but I have 0 need for ANYTHING from that starter set aside from a second damage deck. So, we share a damage deck every time. No big deal, but since FFG believes everyone should use their own, they should make it more available, IMHO. Besides, as others have said, it is awful easy for a card to be lost from the deck (or damaged when someone has had 1 too many beers during the game and a spill happens ). They see the value in selling additional maneuver tools and dice. Sell the decks too!

@Xindell

"While I agree, it would be nice if other players chipped in on this, the fact is that none of them are interested enough in the game for that to realistically happen. They all enjoy it, but if they never played again they wouldn't miss it. "

But...this just kind of proves my main point; even lowering the cost would most likely not get these people to actually spend money to play the game.

I'm in the same spot you are, so I totally relate to how it sucks, but that doesn't change that FFG has to model their business to the most players who will not just buy in, but continue to buy the expansions. Heck, if anything, I'd say your (and my own) situation proves they're doing it right, as we're spending our own money so other people can play. Essentially, buying it for them.

All that said, I do hope you get your damage decks.

Unfortunally Armada (and Attack Wing) dropped from the top 5 in Fall 2017:

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/39858/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2017

However that could also just be that number 4 and 5 just sold very well and just peaked over Armada, are these games new?

Still Warmachine ( a.k.a. the bad bank of the tabletop community) outsells Armada now.