We're finishing up a casual X-Wing League in my office. Casual, in this case, means most everybody played with my stuff, fifty points at a time, sometimes two v two, with teams sometimes across factions.

After the end of regular play, we cut to the top four players for a single elimination tournament bracket. One of the top four players is one of the people who has gotten in to X-Wing in a big way, and he brought, from his own collection, a clone of Paul Heaver's most recent World Championship list. And of course he had every right to do that. Equally of course, I'm going to give him a hard time about it.

I am looking to strike a balance somewhere between goofy and spiteful.

(Oh, if it matters, I lost my semifinals game against a different player, so I will not be playing against this guy.)

So: what's the appropriate level of shade to throw in this situation?

None? Who cares what another player wants to put on the table? Should we also mock players that bring badly constructed lists to play with?

None.

None. Zero. List-shaming is the beginning of the death of fun.

0 in my opinion because I don't think it's cool ridiculing people for their list choices. Unlike some games netlisting doesn't really do anything because there is so much more than just list building, 90% of the game is flying and playing.

No shaming (maybe a friendly jab, with the emphasis on friendly) is appropriate. X-Wing has a rather small pool of viable configurations for most ships, which is fine, but keeps lists from being truly unique.

Unless you want to potentially turn someone off the game, zero.

Okay, cool. I can now check "misjudge tone of post, appear to be a monster" off my list for today. Thanks, all.

ETA: Really not fishing for consolation here. I see where the initial question went off the rails.

Man, are you asking the wrong crowd. There is nothing wrong with a little "friendly" ribbing. But it's a fine line between that and being a passive aggressive whiner.

I'd do something subtle like changing the label of his bookmarks/favorites of his browser when he steps away. So when he drops down the list instead of:

CNN.com

UPS.com

FedEx.com

He'd see something like:

What would Paul Heaver do?

Paul Heaver's guide to Karmasutra

Paul Heaver's recipe for boiled water

And then call it a day.

I personally have no problem with someone running a good proven list. My problem is when that person only runs that list. There was a guy running the same list over and over around here. He won a store championship and got 3rd in another one. We get it, your decent flying combined with a stellar list lets you win. Now try something else.

So for me, public mocking increases over time. Event 1 => none, Event 2 => friendly pokes and jabs, Event 3 => knock it off unless you're practicing for worlds.

I don't think people think you're a monster, I know I don't, but like many other people who play competitively, I've been "shamed" (condescendingly made fun of) for playing an extremely popular list (Palp Aces in my case). We then feel guilty for playing this game that we love, and a little ticked off at the people doing it. It does have an effect of making the shamed not want to return. So this is a bit of a sore spot for some of us.

THAT SAID, I don't think that's what you meant at all. I believe you meant not to shame the playing of the list, but the bringing of a highly competitive list to a casual tournament of what sounds to be mainly beginners. I play competitvely, but when my buddy asks for a casual game, I leave my competitive list at home, because it's not really a casual list. So, in summary, I see where you are coming from.

It would be like me playing basketball with my friends who don't really play (I'm 6'7" and have played for 10+ years), and dunking on all of them. I can if I want to, and not all of them would mind, but it's still a jerk move.

I don't think you're a monster, I just think it is a juvenile trend in gaming. If the game you are playing is worth playing, it won't matter if someone netlists.

Okay, cool. I can now check "misjudge tone of post, appear to be a monster" off my list for today. Thanks, all.

How did people misjudge your post? You used the word "shame", maybe you should've chosen you words more carefully. If, instead, you had posted "how much friendly teasing should I give my co-worker for bringing Heaver's Worlds list to our casual office tourney?" things would have gone differently.

EDIT: Choosing my own words more carefully.

ANOTHER EDIT: Oh, and the answer to my phrasing of the the question is "a lot", if you're on friendly terms with your co-worker. Otherwise just make like Elsa and let it go.

Okay, cool. I can now check "misjudge tone of post, appear to be a monster" off my list for today. Thanks, all.

How did people misjudge your post? You used the "shame", maybe you should've chosen you words more carefully. If, instead, you had posted "how much of a ribbing should I give my co-worker for bring Heaver's Worlds list to our casual office tourney?" things would have gone differently.

I'm pretty sure he means that he misjudged the tone of his own post when writing it, not that anyone else misjudged it

Also, if you're asking the public the appropriate amount of hard time to give someone over something all in good fun, you likely aren't close enough with that person to be heading down that road anyway.

I say friendly ribbing is a good thing. Maybe you guys don't want to go all cut throat and netlisting all the time. I say it's just fine. Set the tone for the type of gaming you want your group to have, but don't ostracize someone.

I also think you are asking the wrong crowd. Most people on these forums are hard tournament players and love the hyper competitive version of lists that have made it to the top tables of Worlds. So, know that when you read answers here.

Dude....you got your office to play a x wing league.

That ....is....the coolest thing I can think of right now.

That kicks ass!

Okay, cool. I can now check "misjudge tone of post, appear to be a monster" off my list for today. Thanks, all.

ETA: Really not fishing for consolation here. I see where the initial question went off the rails.

Here's the thing... your head is in the wrong place. The ships are not what makes a list good. The player does. Case in point, Nathan Eide's list. That is a tricky list and things can go wrong quick. Nathan practiced and is a master of E-wings because of his skill and time he has put into the game. You cannot buy a winning list in this game. Every 100 point list has a chance of winning.

Part of flying casually is to let others fly what sounds fun to them. There is no way to institute "don't build a good list" and insure that all players are enjoying themselves. Push Star Wars toys around a table, make pew-pew sounds, have fun, and...

Okay, cool. I can now check "misjudge tone of post, appear to be a monster" off my list for today. Thanks, all.

How did people misjudge your post? You used the "shame", maybe you should've chosen you words more carefully. If, instead, you had posted "how much of a ribbing should I give my co-worker for bring Heaver's Worlds list to our casual office tourney?" things would have gone differently.

I'm pretty sure he means that he misjudged the tone of his own post when writing it, not that anyone else misjudged it

My apologies to the OP then. It appears that I misread the word "shade" as "shame". Sorry about that man!

To the OP: Looks like a lot of people took the tone of your topic wrong. It's hard to convey things like a bit of light banter on the tinterwebz.

As for said ribbing: just a few light comments, as he's playing ask him; what would Heaver do? Stuff like that.

I say friendly ribbing is a good thing. Maybe you guys don't want to go all cut throat and netlisting all the time. I say it's just fine. Set the tone for the type of gaming you want your group to have, but don't ostracize someone.

I also think you are asking the wrong crowd. Most people on these forums are hard tournament players and love the hyper competitive version of lists that have made it to the top tables of Worlds. So, know that when you read answers here.

I play in some local tournaments, but never anything higher than a Store Championship. The majority of my play now is with friends at one of our houses. We like to try things and often come up with some zaney lists. Personally, I enjoy learning to fly ships I don't have much experience with and might borrow a popular list to learn. Other times, I just go over kill and fly a list full of the same ship. My first TFL lists were 2x Red Vet+PTL+AT and Poe+BB-8+PTL+AT and 4x Omega+PTL+WG+SD. My Rebel list did OK, but my 4 Omegas went down in a ball of pew-pew flames! I learned a lot from those games.

We all grow in this game in different ways and find different aspects of it fun. Let the only limit be the agreed point cap. Keep things casual by winning and loosing with grace. Remind players of missed opportunities and allow a little template/ruler fudging. Always be the person whose's more interested in fun. These attitudes are contagious in a friendly and casual setting.

I agree. I just hate it when a casual scene suddenly becomes cut throat. I think a lot of it matters in attitude of players around the game. I think trying zany things and talking about having fun is a good thing. That's why I think it's ok to rib someone good-naturely about bringing a netlist, but not stopping them. Encourage people to have fun over just winning. That's the important aspect.

Preach Herm

In a tournament setting, you play to win. In a casual weekday setting, you play to have fun and try new things (and win). In a tournament you play to win. I don't care how "casual" the tournament. That is not licence to be a jerk and good natured ribbing among friends is always in good fun. If you can't take a little good humored fun being poked at you, look in the mirror and relax. It is, in fact, a game.