Two things:

I like new players, even at events like store championships. It means the community is growing, and it's an opportunity to show we're better kind of gamers. It also allows me to refresh my understanding of the rules by teaching those willing to be. Be the bigger person and be patient.

Belligerent people are not easy to tolerate, but you should be taking a lesson from Roadhouse: Be Nice. Ultimately escalating against someone who is getting irrational does not help. Your TO should be involved, especially if he KNOWS that person is new.

No no no. The lesson from Roadhouse is "Be nice; until it's time not to be nice." Clearly, you should have been patient until he started throwing miniatures. At which point you should have flying drop kicked him over the table.

While scratching your sack

Well, I've had my share of being upset with games, but usually that's because even being as well-versed in the rules as I am, I hate the feeling of being powerless to change my fate in a game. I can imagine the new player was feeling at least part of this, since his opponent was using rulings he was not familiar with to change the game on him as if arbitrarily, and it didn't help that others were corroborating with the "new rulings".

It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you're not familiar with the rules but confidently walk in expecting to win. Anyone with modesty would step back and realize they didn't know the game as well as they should, and take it as a learning experience.

I think I would have handled it like you did Hastator, let the newbie embarrass himself before the rest of the tournament with his behavior. If he's interested in playing the game and becoming a better player, afterward offer some post-analysis on what he could have done better and thoughts on how to counter your list (since realistically you won't be placed against him in the tournament). If he was there to win and flaunt it, nothing is lost by him storming off.

I hope this individual was either a child or at most in his early teens, if not....bah.

Only one similar experience when I played Warhammer Fantasy on a tournament level. There was one annual tournament where I went like 4 times in a row and there always was the same guy, the archtypical nerd powergamer early 40's manchild, that would always bring the most overpowered cheesy army that was available at the time of the tournament, usually Skaven. He even looked a little bit like a rat himself. He was also a bit unpleasant to play again, gloating loudly as he destroyed your units as if it was his tactical genius at work while in reality all he did during the match was roll dice while his cheesy army did the work for him, and purposefully 'forgetting' rules that hampered him while pointing out every situation and error that benefited him.

After winning the tournament twice, the third time the daemons of chaos armybook (may have been the Storm of Chaos list instead, was some time ago) had just released which had some sick overpowered stuff at the time. Obviously he brought that army. He had already scored 2 massacres, and I was his last opponent, if he won he won the tournament. His list was designed like a meatgrinder and if I fought it head on I'd loose so instead I opted to try and go for a draw. So over the course of the match I attacked and destroyed only his smaller units while mostly evading his humongous powerhouse units of death and carnage. It worked out well and I scored a minor victory, spoiling his chance of winning the tournament.

I have never had so much abuse thrown at me during what to me was a friendly hobby event. I was a snivelling coward. I was the worst opponent he ever played. I was extremely unsportive. He physically turned red when I pointed out his frenzied khorne daemons were forced to charge my baiting skirmishers (which he 'forgot') and I had to show him the rule in the rulebook before he conceded, and at one point I thought he was going to swat my general (a very time consuming conversion of a dark elf general on a huge spider) off the table in rage. At the end of the match he proclaimed how his overpowered army was horribly weak, so naturally he lost. When we shook hands after the match, it was as if I grabbed a wet sponge, good god...

I never again felt so good at winning a warhammer match though.

If he's new and reacting like that don't worry, he won't be around long anyway. We've all played against people who are there for competition not to enjoy the game. The rules for Armada take a little time to learn, but it didn't sound like this guy had tried.

P.S. I'm never shaking hands with Madaghmire or use any of his stuff

Thats cool man...but you got a little schmutz on your cheek...hold still, I'll get it...

I'll admit to asking to see cards I'm not familiar with. It's not that I don't trust my opponent, but rather that I find seeing the text fixes it into my memory more effectively.

For the guy in the OP though? The rest of his behaviour makes me think that his problem is entirely different...

It's unfortunate you had to play against such an opponent. This type of person is exactly what drove me out of Magic decades ago. *puts on tin foil hat* And you know, from what I've heard, Magic players are upset about a rules change, and leaving in droves. It's possible they are flocking to Armada as an alternative, so be ready for more of "that guy." *removes tin foil hat*

Seriously though, there are a lot of folks out there, and it's sadly inevitable that sooner or later, new or experienced, we're going to find ourselves at a table with "that guy/girl." I think you handled it well. Good on ya.

Oh, and Mad? I was in a game shop once and watched in horror as the sweatpant wearing, non showering store rep (yeah, the didn't just have "that guy," they hired him) reached into the back of his sweats, scratched his crack, and then immediately adjusted the opposing players model on the table. ... I never played there, and never went back.

I hope that wasn't you?

Couldn't be me, you said he was wearing pants?

First game of my first Armada tournament, wave 1 had just dropped and I was sporting Frigates with the Gallant Haven. My opponent had Rebels and a frigate of his own, and was quite happy to express his delight in the balance of the game in comparison to other systems (especially 40k).

We get going, and he launches his fighters at mine, targeting Wedge. Thanks to bracing and Gallant Haven, I took perhaps two points of damage. Swear to God, the next words out of his mouth were "Rebels are broken", and he was playing Rebels! Dude was a grumpy so-and-so the rest of the day, and I don't think he came to any more tournaments after that.

When he questioned you on the rules, you should have said if a deep voice with a fist pump... "I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Seriously, at the end of the day, this is a game of little ships... it's best to stay calm like you did and not get shot or stabbed. I would have called the TO over to observe the game.

In today's world, I would argue that he/she was bullying you and frankly diminishing your happiness which is unacceptable.

I play against new players often and most are happy to have their opponent help them understand the rules and good combos so that they play better next time. If I ever played against somebody that was belligerent, I'd ask the TO to come over and watch the rest of the match. If I've done my best to be a good sportsman but my opponent won't, it's up to the TO to decide what to do. I feel bad for you - that sort of stuff just sucks the fun out of the game.

You kept your cool, and that's all you can do. A little empathy goes a long way. If you were tired and cranky after a long day of gaming, so was he, probably. First tournaments are stressful things, and if whatever "meta" he is used to (which may very well just be him literally reading his own cards, over and over again!) is different than what he ran into at the tournament, he probably felt very ambushed by stuff. Ships doing crazy stuff, tournament-ready opponents assuming he knew how things worked, unexpected card combos sneaking up on him...an FFG tourney can be an exhausting thing, to folks who aren't used to them.

The only suggestion I'd make is to get the TO next time, not nearby players. If he's not from the store, it might feel to him like you and "your buddies" are in on it together, with every little rules decision going against him, y'know? Get the ref over, and get official answers from an impartial observer. Let the TO O the T, that's what they're there for.

I'm glad you didn't blow up back at him, and I hope he's in a better mood next time he shows up at the store.

Me? I would have TOed this guy all the way out the door. This is a competitive GAME. I'm no pro but I sure don't question every rule ad nauseam. And I have invested too much time and money to play THAT guy. Rude dudes? No way Jose.

For another point of view, this is why we all have to be patient with other players:

He refused to understand the order of operations on critical effects vs using brace and redirect and the fact that APTs have nothing to do with shields....

....It didn't help that the first time I hit with the APT and insisted he took the card before he used redirect it was a shield failure.

It almost sounds like you were resolving critical effects before he got to spend defense tokens. Defense tokens are spent before critical effects take place. They just aren't resolved until the after the critical effect. It's a key distinction. If, for example, he spends a redirect and then draws capacitor failure, he can still redirect that turn from a hull zone with no shields since the redirect has already been spent.

If I'm misinterpreting your comment, I apologize for wasting your time =)

This is a complicated game and the attack - defence interation is one of the most complex I've come across.

I am not offering a justification for hastiator's opponent's behaviour, which sounds very unsporting, but it turns out one of his many grievances was in fact legitimate. When that happens, the opponent will flip this around and be able to claim that his so-called expert opponent was using the rules incorrectly - ignoring the fact you were sincere (obviously, or you wouldn't have posted the mistake here lol).

And that is why we all have to be patient even with the most obnoxious of players, because let's face it; we all make mistakes.

You kept your cool, and that's all you can do. A little empathy goes a long way. If you were tired and cranky after a long day of gaming, so was he, probably. First tournaments are stressful things, and if whatever "meta" he is used to (which may very well just be him literally reading his own cards, over and over again!) is different than what he ran into at the tournament, he probably felt very ambushed by stuff. Ships doing crazy stuff, tournament-ready opponents assuming he knew how things worked, unexpected card combos sneaking up on him...an FFG tourney can be an exhausting thing, to folks who aren't used to them.

Went for my 1st store casual and 1st national tourney the week after, I have to agree that it can be mentally exhausting. Heck, even last Sunday's double casual at the community club left my brain pulsating for the next 2.5 hours.

But really, I must say that the OP kept his calm. If it was me, I might have flipped him or used words that I would regret.

Sometimes you just have to take the hit and move on, not everyone gets on with everyone else.

I think too if you have a player that believes they know the rules the the local store guys ganging up on them can be rather grating. So if you put his shoes on for a second it may have looked like you were all playing some secret house rules that he didn't know about. Sometimes it can feel like you are getting hit from all directions if this starts happening and it can very quickly become overwhelming.

i use the YES model.

Yield - "Demolisher is pretty powerful when used this way"

Empathy statement - "and i can see its making you frustrated"

Solution - "may i suggest ways you can beat it normally within the rules after the game?"

When all fails call a TO.

Wait a minute!

You did this to me!

In my very first tournament!

I've got to say, when dealing with a new player, even at a competitive event, the best course of action is to explain everything as you're doing it.

As you deploy Demolisher, you say "This is Demolisher, have you played against it before?"

And even if he says yes, you say "So you know how dangerous it can be since it can attack after moving?"

So before the game even begins, there are no surprises. He knows what all your ships can do.

Hell, I do this with veteran players. It's always nice for everyone to be on the same page.

The worst thing you can do to a new player is surprise them with a powerful move in the middle of a game. It sounds to me like you surprised this guy with the Demolisher title, and let's be honest, that's a pretty brutal surprise. I'm certain he could have handled the whole thing better, but at the same time if the surprise could have been avoided I think that would have been best for everyone.

Like Chucknuckle said, show and tell helps a lot. Even with the usual guys I play against I have kept it this way - at least name every upgrade on each ship, and if that upgrade has not been used by you against that player, explain it. This game is complex, and I like to make sure that the other guy has heard my fleet layout and its more exotic upgrades at least once.

Regarding the behaviour, there is unfo not much you could have done other than what you did already - stay calm, explain, if it escalates too much call a TO. Have to admit that I have been on the grudging side of a table as well with other games. Especially when playing more experienced players it always feels like they have kept that one special rule that just killed your uberunit in one turn in hiding. As the less experienced guy you are in a vulnerable position, and getting kicked by demolisher or some of the other nasty combos which this game offers can quickly kill your mood as well, double so if you are little of a sportsman or are getting tabled in front of lots of audience.

Showing and telling takes you five minutes max, and totally eliminates arguments about hidden combos or upgrades that allegedly have belonged to another ship before.

Not being funny, but this was a tournament, not a casual game, the onus is on the player to have knowledge sufficient to the games he/she is partaking in.

My first ever tournament, I didn't know as much as I do now, I certainly didn't start throwing my toys out of my pram when something happened I was not all that aware of, I went knowing that this was probably going to be the case, and so adjusted my expectations accordingly, because it was my lack of knowledge that was the issue, mine, not anyone else.

All this tell them everything, is crap, plain and simple, it places you at a distinct disadvantage by specifically highlighting right as the game begins where your opponent should be focusing his/her attention, and this is not the point of a tournament, a tournament is a competition, meant to be a test of skill, not a hand holding session.

And so what if you get tabled in front of an audience, that is part and parcel of choosing to play in a competition, it is not your opponents responsibility to play nice, handicap him/herself, to save you some blushes, if you chose to play in a competition in a public venue then you expect to have to deal with being beaten comprehensively in public, if that is too much for you, do not chose to play in a competition in public.

So tired of apologist behaviour, the guy was out of line, end of story. There is no responsibility on Hastatior, to feel bad for using his fleet properly, this was a competition match, I have several friends who will not play in public competitions for either this or X-Wing, because they don't feel comfortable with their ability to play in public under pressure, they choose not to, one of them is worried he would lose his temper with people playing overly defensively (you know set up on the complete opposite corner of the table, and at speed 1, turn 1 drop to speed zero, and if you are lucky you get into range in turn 5 or 6) so he chooses not to play in public, this is people I know being responsible for themselves, choosing not to be in a situation that would leave them behaving incorrectly because they could not handle the situation.

If it was a casual game, by all means hand hold the hell out of them, encourage them, teach them. But a tournament is not the place for any of them things.

Not being funny, but this was a tournament, not a casual game, the onus is on the player to have knowledge sufficient to the games he/she is partaking in.

My first ever tournament, I didn't know as much as I do now, I certainly didn't start throwing my toys out of my pram when something happened I was not all that aware of, I went knowing that this was probably going to be the case, and so adjusted my expectations accordingly, because it was my lack of knowledge that was the issue, mine, not anyone else.

All this tell them everything, is crap, plain and simple, it places you at a distinct disadvantage by specifically highlighting right as the game begins where your opponent should be focusing his/her attention, and this is not the point of a tournament, a tournament is a competition, meant to be a test of skill, not a hand holding session.

And so what if you get tabled in front of an audience, that is part and parcel of choosing to play in a competition, it is not your opponents responsibility to play nice, handicap him/herself, to save you some blushes, if you chose to play in a competition in a public venue then you expect to have to deal with being beaten comprehensively in public, if that is too much for you, do not chose to play in a competition in public.

So tired of apologist behaviour, the guy was out of line, end of story. There is no responsibility on Hastatior, to feel bad for using his fleet properly, this was a competition match, I have several friends who will not play in public competitions for either this or X-Wing, because they don't feel comfortable with their ability to play in public under pressure, they choose not to, one of them is worried he would lose his temper with people playing overly defensively (you know set up on the complete opposite corner of the table, and at speed 1, turn 1 drop to speed zero, and if you are lucky you get into range in turn 5 or 6) so he chooses not to play in public, this is people I know being responsible for themselves, choosing not to be in a situation that would leave them behaving incorrectly because they could not handle the situation.

If it was a casual game, by all means hand hold the hell out of them, encourage them, teach them. But a tournament is not the place for any of them things.

You are right, there has been no responsibility on Hastiators part, and I think nobody said something like this. You are also right that a Tourney is a different kind of play, and that it is legitimate to powerplay the hell out of it to get your win.

Then again, its a game. Tabling a noob who is getting all grumpy about it costs you what, two hours of lifetime? Its not that I worry too much for Hastiators opponent, but thought to share some ways which I have implemented in my tabletop games to mitigate the grumpyness pre-emptively.

Mind that this is not WHFB or anything similar where you keep your items hidden from the enemy. All your ships, upgrades etc. are visible and your opponent could even take a picture or whatnot to get that knowledge, so showing and telling is not giving anything away your opponent would not be able to get aware of anyway. Again, you dont have to explain your strategy, combo or where you want to be with your demo within turn 3 - state the name of the upgrade, if you see that the opponent is not familiar with it give a summary of the upgrade.

In this case, it would have kept the opponent from being caught by demo by surprise. And yes, you are by no means required to explain it to him or save him from that kick to the balls, and if you are competing for rank 1-3 or anything with a chance to grasp a price, feel free to utilize as much advantage as you can get. But if the loot table is already out of reach, saving him from the disgrace of being surpriced by the demo might save you 1-2 hrs of annoying, argument-filled playtime.

All this tell them everything, is crap, plain and simple

No, it's polite, plain and simple. If a person was to acknowledge that springing a nasty surprise on someone can result in some hard feelings, but was to spring that surprise anyway because it gives them a better chance of winning a game of toy space-ships, then I really believe that person needs to go home and rethink their life.

I mean, whatever happened to just being kind to people? You want to win so bad that you're afraid of full disclosure? In an open list game?!

All this tell them everything, is crap, plain and simple

No, it's polite, plain and simple. If a person was to acknowledge that springing a nasty surprise on someone can result in some hard feelings, but was to spring that surprise anyway because it gives them a better chance of winning a game of toy space-ships, then I really believe that person needs to go home and rethink their life.

I mean, whatever happened to just being kind to people? You want to win so bad that you're afraid of full disclosure? In an open list game?!

No, inviting them around your side of the table to examine all your ships, upgrades and squadrons is polite, explaining to the depth you initially talked about is crap, a tournament is not the time or place for it.

I never once said be rude, or aggressive, or even nasty, you can be kind just fine without holding your opponents hand, perhaps that is the difference between us. I don't expect to go to competitions and have to deal with a player with little to no understanding of the rules of the game we are playing, that is an error in choice by them, if they had some knowledge of the game, there would be no nasty surprises, and the place to learn the game and rules is in casual play with friends or strangers, that is when you go the extra mile to be helpful, and break everything down for someone.

I always make sure my apponent understands my list before we start the game. I explain cards, effects and specific rule questions that I know come up.

It tends to stop the " salvation question" happening on turn 3 ( what do you mean.......If your using the Crit role for for double damage, you can't use it as a Crit affect as well..... Um yes I can, that's how it works I'm not spending the Crit.... No you can't.....honest I can..... No that's not right, it must mean you turn the die to a double damage.... No it just adds on one damage, the Crit icon is still there, the dice has not been spent, the Crit affect has not been used...but... )

It's dissapointing to see a lack of personal responsibility for ones self advocated in gaming. If you are going to play in a public setting, let alone in a tournanent, learn the rules of the game. Learn how to play the game, which includes being aware of what your opponents list does. Or at the very least don't act like a petulant child when you don't do either of those things, and low and behold your play suffers for it.

It is just astounding to see people defend the described behavior (whether the description accurate or not). The onus can not be on everyone else to ensure that one player not act out because he didn't do his own due diligence in either learning the rules or being aware of what his opponent brought to the table.

It's dissapointing to see a lack of personal responsibility for ones self advocated in gaming. If you are going to play in a public setting, let alone in a tournanent, learn the rules of the game. Learn how to play the game, which includes being aware of what your opponents list does. Or at the very least don't act like a petulant child when you don't do either of things, and low and behold your play suffers for it.

It is just astounding to see people defend the described behavior (whether the description accurate or not). The onus can not be on everyone else to ensure that one player not act out because he didn't do his own due diligence in either learning the rules or being aware of what his opponent brought to the table.

Exactly, this says perfectly what I have been trying to, no implications of being rude or an *******, just cannot understand the justification and hand holding being advocated, if you want to play in a public competition, it is up to you and no one else to ensure you can do so in a competent manner, and it is not in any shape or form acceptable to not do so, and then have a fit about it.

It's dissapointing to see a lack of personal responsibility for ones self advocated in gaming. If you are going to play in a public setting, let alone in a tournanent, learn the rules of the game. Learn how to play the game, which includes being aware of what your opponents list does. Or at the very least don't act like a petulant child when you don't do either of those things, and low and behold your play suffers for it.

It is just astounding to see people defend the described behavior (whether the description accurate or not). The onus can not be on everyone else to ensure that one player not act out because he didn't do his own due diligence in either learning the rules or being aware of what his opponent brought to the table.

This is getting out of hands. Nobody tries to defend anything or blame anybody - its not a court, its a public forum for a toygame. In fact, I even stated that my post is by no means meant as a defense or blame, so if that was not helping to make my intention clear, please tell me what is.

Play your games as you see fit and as the rules allow. If that means to limit sportmanship to the absolute minimum to gain some minor advantage and table a newcomer, please go ahead. That in return could however mean that you waste 2-3 hours of lifetime tabling a grumpy kid, as it happened to the OP. Again, not saying that any grumpiness would be justified or on you to blame, but thats how some people are. That is why some of us shared how they treat this topic, as they extend the "open list" concept a bit in order to pre-emptively avoid the usual arguments. I personally feel that it helps little to be right about some rules if the opponent decides to be the worst possible player afterwards, with the intention to totally ruin the fun to me.

From other wargames I played in tourneys before I also experienced that the threshold for getting someone disqualified for bad behaviour is extremely high, so that is no alternative.