Im pretty sure a

Gamma Squadron Veteran 19

-extra munitions 2

-proton torpedoes 4

-dead eye 1

-guidance chips 0

Is going to find its way into alot of my lists after vets come out. 26 points to dump on average 3 hits and a crit twice will be a welcome addition to alot of squads.

Solid, but I think for one more point I like:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (27) - TIE Bomber

Crack Shot (1), Homing Missiles (5), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

Could put a pair of those in a list and watch the aces squirm.

I have been giving this some thought with Guidance Chips because you can do something stupid like the following,

4X Gamma Squadron Pilot - Extra Munitions - Ion Pulse Missiles - Seismic Charges - Guidance Chips (25)

You have the option to drop 8 bombs and shoot off 8 missiles which is just stupid.

I would run lots of missiles against a bomber heavy list, a chance to destroy bombers in a single go and can get out of the way of any bombs,

2X Green Squadron Pilot - Proton Rockets - Guidance Chips (22)
2X Tala Squadron Pilot - Cluster Missiles - Guidance Chips (17)
Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

The B-wing is for taking damage.

As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility.

I don't think you understand that a Homing Missile with chips pretty much always hits for 4, right?

One of the things people don't understand about disposable cards is that while they can only be used once, you only have to kill a ship once. Disposables just have to be good enough to be worth not running something persistent, which Crackshot already is and ordnance will be.

Also, triple U-Boats fix all of the problems with ordnance simultaneously.

And no one's ever survived 4 hits, right? Soontir can survive it even without his Evade token and a very average roll. Add in Palp, his frequent guest star, and then your one-shot, 5 point missile is gone, and that's assuming you even get him in arc (a huge if). Rebel regen lists, swarm lists that can absorb a single loss, tank builds like BBBBZ or 4x TLT will murder your missile brigade, especially if you start spending 20+ points on ordnance before factoring in that many of the ships that fire ordnance are usually inagile and can be focused fired down quickly.

Just because YOU believe in it doesn't make it a viable strategy. One shot weapons that are needlessly expensive and restrictive AREN'T efficient compared to cannons or simply having more ships with the points spent on ordnance. HLCs with FCS don't struggle to get 4 hits regularly and they aren't dominating the meta, despite being able to shoot over and over, but you'd have us all believe one-shot missiles are an amazingly viable build. C'mon now.

For those doubting the potential of the list, I just want to list a number of things triple Uboats has going for it.

1) Cost efficiency. Scouts are very fairly priced.

2) VERY complementary upgrade slots. Scum Mech options are all pretty fantastic, especially the agromech and unhinged mechs. And crew is, outside of maybe EPT, the best slot in the game. Oh, look at that! It has an EPT too!

3) The little used EPT (until now), Deadeye. It works wonders on this thing. Any TL redirect shenanigans aren't doing anything against this popular variant.

4) Barrel roll + incredible dial + large base = GREAT baiting. See which of the three the opponent is directing its nose towards on the start up rounds, and make that 1 hard turn, and barrel roll right out of range or arc to keep them from getting a shot. Also, the "crab walk" (one straight and barrel roll back to edge of the board), assures the initial engagement will happen on your terms.

5) Turret primary. While other ordnance dependent builds struggle with the scrum after the initial strike and become fairly predictable, the turrets on these guys means every maneuver on their dial is an option.

6) Big base means wider firing arcs and better blocking. Three of these on the board, and aces aren't nearly as strong of a counter as you may initially think.

7) PS 3. While lists with generics will benefit from having more ships on the board to counter the initial strike, the majority of generics will be shooting after them, and that can easily mean a dead ship before it even shoots.

So I'd say that is a looooot of things going for it.

So, ya. It has a lot going for it.

Anything

But jokes aside if there is one that missile and torpedoes are extremely weakest against it is what this person said:

Arc dodging.

and they still are a dominating part of the meta.

but yeah as the first reply goes here it won't be a dominating part of the meta.

I seriously doubt there will be an ordnance meta, in that ordnance becomes so common that you need to build entire list strategies around it. Even with all the additions, it is still less cost efficient than most other ways to boost offense. They just aren't completely pointless now. That being said, ordnance still requires ships to be in arc and often target locked. Anything that sheds or redirects target locks (Expert Handling, for example) will see more use, but generally, arc dodgers will remain effective against them. As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility. Otherwise, I don't think you'll see much other than a shift in target priority to the ships with dangerous ordnance, which are typically not that hard to focus down.

So I have been seeing some proxy play of triple (ordnance heavy) Jumpmaster lists, and they seem to be pretty powerful. Z-95 alpha strikes also seem to be pretty powerful.

Obviously, there is no reason to believe they are overpowered as we don't even have the ship/upgrade in our hands yet, but while thinking about it, I did have an interesting thought to myself- If ordnance proves to be top line competitive, what would you fly to counter it? I'm having trouble coming up with many ideas. Maybe Crackshot swarm deals with it well, but other than that? I'm not sure.

ANY arcdodge works well.

when your pricey torp sees nothing but unflinching void, it's worth nothing...

::cough:: Dantels ::cough::

As much as I like Dantels ability and think that is the bet pilot for torpedo weapons She is still too expensive and again torpedoes don't do much.

I used to try and run her with 2x proton torpedoes and boost those protons to 5 dice with Jan and still fails against popular lists like brobots. Guidance chips won't have that much of an effect.

As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility.

I don't think you understand that a Homing Missile with chips pretty much always hits for 4, right?

One of the things people don't understand about disposable cards is that while they can only be used once, you only have to kill a ship once. Disposables just have to be good enough to be worth not running something persistent, which Crackshot already is and ordnance will be.

Also, triple U-Boats fix all of the problems with ordnance simultaneously.

And no one's ever survived 4 hits, right? Soontir can survive it even without his Evade token and a very average roll. Add in Palp, his frequent guest star, and then your one-shot, 5 point missile is gone, and that's assuming you even get him in arc (a huge if). Rebel regen lists, swarm lists that can absorb a single loss, tank builds like BBBBZ or 4x TLT will murder your missile brigade, especially if you start spending 20+ points on ordnance before factoring in that many of the ships that fire ordnance are usually inagile and can be focused fired down quickly.

Just because YOU believe in it doesn't make it a viable strategy. One shot weapons that are needlessly expensive and restrictive AREN'T efficient compared to cannons or simply having more ships with the points spent on ordnance. HLCs with FCS don't struggle to get 4 hits regularly and they aren't dominating the meta, despite being able to shoot over and over, but you'd have us all believe one-shot missiles are an amazingly viable build. C'mon now.

I have a lot of experience with concussion Z swarms, and I must say, they are very hard to fly successfully. Asteroid placement is huge, as is deployment. They eat up all jousters or ships with 1-2 agility, but it is really hard to take down swarms. Aces like Soontir, Dash, and Jake Farrell can also be difficult, but not impossible. I think the ordnance meta will be a filler ship, but not a spam list because it is too hard to pull off consistently.

I predict bombers with Fel, Vader, or OL for imps to make it hard for your opponent to choose who to shoot for imps. Rebels have Z95 as cheap filler to go with virtually any list, and scum have the same plus the contracted scout.

I don't think it will come to this, but Expert Handling could become much more popular in an ordnance heavy meta.

I don't think it will come to this, but Expert Handling could become much more popular in an ordnance heavy meta.

Expert handling is a waste of your EPT slot, the best ordinance builds will include Deadeye purely because they will be hunting higher PS ships and making sure they engage them at range 2-3.

People have said arc dodging will still beat ordinance, I think not, the range 2-3 cone is a pretty huge area to have to avoid and due to deadeye aces can't just waltz in believing that they aren't going to take 2-3 guided, crack concussion missiles.

I've diced this out over 20 times, Vader or Soontir are likely dead if they are inside the range 2-3 band, Palp, tokens etc are unlikely to save them from serious damage or death.

U-Boat meta? U-Boat meta.

It's Expert Handling's time to shine!!!!

I seriously do enjoy it as a EPT, though. Great on ships that cannot normally Barrel Roll. Nothing like seeing a HWK Barrel Roll.

sidetrack:

Unfortunately the Hwk has problems getting rid of the stress. And is already quite predictable, with stress even more so.

Still an EH EU Hwk is so (overcosted!) pure fun. Imagine they could have something like unhinged on top of that

ANY arcdodge works well.

when your pricey torp sees nothing but unflinching void, it's worth nothing...

::cough:: Dantels ::cough::

As much as I like Dantels ability and think that is the bet pilot for torpedo weapons She is still too expensive and again torpedoes don't do much.

I used to try and run her with 2x proton torpedoes and boost those protons to 5 dice with Jan and still fails against popular lists like brobots. Guidance chips won't have that much of an effect.

Unfortunately probably not really working in reality, as a really expensive build and useless against large ships.

Edit spellcheck

It's Expert Handling's time to shine!!!!

I seriously do enjoy it as a EPT, though. Great on ships that cannot normally Barrel Roll. Nothing like seeing a HWK Barrel Roll.

sidetrack:

Unfortunately the Hwk has problems getting rid of the stress. And is already quite predictable, with stress even more so.

Still an EH EU Hwk is so (overcosted!) pure fun. Imagine they could have something like unhinged on top of that

Good thing that new cloaking device doesn't have that problem - with Dorsal Turret and the limited ranges of the Scum HWKs abilities that seems like a great deal of fun!

I was actually looking forward to the "ordnance meta" until they revealed that the contracted scout is only 25pt. Being able to build a good ordnance carrier like that with PS3 and Deadeye for 33/34 pts is disgusting and eliminates one of the major drawbacks of ordnance spam (getting that TL with your low PS). No wonder they are all the rage on Vassal.

They are pretty sweet, but they're better on paper than they are on table. Their offense is so dramatically reliant on actions that obstacles or bumping can just ruin them, and they have effectively no defensive tokens because they need them for offense. They shouldn't be taken lightly, but there are all kinds of paths to victory against them.

I think that's true, but I think the discussion will be very similar to what we see for TLTs this meta. And, I think it could be more frustrating in the sense that TLTs is a death by tiny cuts while playing poorly against an ordnance focused list is a 10 minute game.

JM5K ordnance lists are the real deal. Z95 ordnance lists will be pretty strong too.

As for counters to it?....

A PS4 Ordnance list should counter a PS3/PS2 Ordnance list

I'm honestly not totally sure yet. To beat things like Deadeye R4 Torp JM5K requires forcing engagements in rocks or limiting actions.

PS1 Tie Swarm is pretty good at that! I action denial reliant lists would be the best bet.

I seriously doubt there will be an ordnance meta, in that ordnance becomes so common that you need to build entire list strategies around it. Even with all the additions, it is still less cost efficient than most other ways to boost offense. They just aren't completely pointless now. That being said, ordnance still requires ships to be in arc and often target locked. Anything that sheds or redirects target locks (Expert Handling, for example) will see more use, but generally, arc dodgers will remain effective against them. As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility. Otherwise, I don't think you'll see much other than a shift in target priority to the ships with dangerous ordnance, which are typically not that hard to focus down.

This would all be true, except that it ignores one thing: ordnance with Guidance Chips will erase ships in the first exchange of fire. That is a huge paradigm shift. The ability to hit a huge TL+F alpha strike has, until Wave 8, meant a very heavy investment in points.

...

The Alpha Strike meta is going to be huge, folks. I am not looking forward to it. And that's not because I don't want to see Bombers and Z-95s (the vast majority of carriers) do well in the game. I do. I just don't want games decided, effectively, at the list-building stage. And we're gonna see that much more than we do now.

As of now, even the most lopsided match-up is maybe 3-to-1 in favor of one list, all else equal (and that estimating high, it's likely closer to 2-to-1); in the Alpha Strike meta, expect to see lots and lots of games with a favorite at 9-to-1 or so.

First off, I have to admit that I've been using the Alpha Strike since Wave 1. I've won events in the first two waves with Vader and a Concussion Missile. I would set him and Backstabber to come in at a flank and just pound one ship in the first round. I've been using that strategy for a long time. I know it's not been big in the tournament scene, but it's not a new concept.

I did well at my SC last year with 4 Tie Bombers and no GC. I did finish games very quickly sometimes. I cleared out a 5 Alpha Interceptors list in about 15 minutes.

To think, though, that Ordnance lists are winning the game in the list building stage is incredibly far fetched. You still have to fly well with an Ordnance list, unless the other person has never flown against it before and just waltzes right into your sweet zone. Even if that happens, it probably won't happen many times after that. I've been playing Tie Bombers for the past year in my local area. I can usually win the first one or two games against an opponent, but they learn quickly how to fight against it. When I win a quick game on game night, I'll just suggest we rack and stack again since everyone is still busy. My opponent usually does much better in the second match. It's the same list that I just smashed them with, but flown smarter.

To just suggest "arc dodger" against an Ordnance list is not some sort of magic talisman that means you win. If you have a really good and experienced Ordnance player, you can still kick their butt. Or at least make it an exciting game. It's not an "auto win" on either side by any degree.

While I think there will be some full blown Ordnance lists, I do think that the impact will just be that there will be MORE ordnance in lists, but they won't be the whole concept of the list. Just looking at the SC results (before GC is even out) and I see ordnance in some winning lists. There was one SC won with a K-wing that had a Homing Missile. Another had 3 TLT's and N'dru w/ Cluster Missiles and Glitterstim. Those are the types of tweaks to a list that adds an element of Alpha Strike, but not making the whole list about it. We are already seeing them added to tournament winning (or at least placing) lists and I think we will see more Ordnance, in general.

I do think ordnance lists are one of those "archetypes" that good players will have to practice against.

Even with all that said, I think 4 x Scimitar Bombers w/ LRS, EM, Homing Missiles, and Seismic Charges will be a decent list.....if played well. I mean someone spending a lot of time practicing with it and against a lot of list types. I've found the Tie Bomber to be very versatile.

Personally I think one of the advantages of the Jumpmaster as an ordnance carrier is the fact that it is a great blocker as well, so against a bunch of arc dodgers if you can't bring your torps to bear you can try blocking and feedback array against them. I certainly think ordnance will get played a little more which is surely a good thing but you can't rely on it totally to win you games, you need to have a backup plan.

Essentially, your options - regardless of cards - boil down to surviving a heavy "alpha strike" attack. If you can do that with relatively little loss of combat power, then what's left of your squad should (in theory) be able to take apart whatever's facing you across the board, since ordnance boats are rarely very good dogfighters once they've shot their bolt.

This can be done in the following ways:

• Shoot first and kill them before they fire - essentially out-alpha-striking. The aforementioned Contracted Scout and Gamma Squadron Veteran work well here, due to their above-average pilot skills, but in theory any PS3-5 generic swarm, in enough numbers, should blow away one or more ships with missiles unfired. As a TIE swarm and Z-swarm pilot will tell you, you always bank on losing one ship before you get around to firing. The problem is that even firing at Z-95s, you're unlikely to kill more than one, leaving 4 missiles to erase your most expensive ship, and equally, killing a Jumpmaster-500 in one volley is unlikely without ordnance of your own. If you can kill Blount, great, but again, killing him at PS9 takes some doing; your opponent is unlikely to care if he dies once the tracers have fired.
• Don't let them get into arc of fire. Easier said than done - a Jumpmaster is fairly manoeuvrable for a big ship, and, after all, the fighter can set up a lock on a turn when it doesn't have a shot. Still, a high PS boost/barrel roll ace might be able to do that, but only if you have something to keep them honest - a block of generic TIE fighters, for example.
• Don't let them get into range. Guidance Chips tempts people towards Homing/Concussion missiles rather than Cluster Missiles - this is much more useful for high PS boost/barrel roll aces as there is a range 1 'safe spot'. Even if it means collisions or taking range 1 primary weapon attacks, that's better than letting them dump missiles at you.
• Dodge the shot - unlikely. 4 dice attacks with multiple dice modifiers are **** hard to dodge. Even a TIE interceptor can't rely on evading one. Autothruster/Sensor Jammer/Glitterstim Virago has a decent chance, but even then it's going to survive, not escape undamaged.
• Prevent the shot. Target Lock denying tricks don't necessarily work because of Deadeye, and because XX-23 S-Thread tracers spawn target locks after they trigger. Wes Janson, on the other hand, can be good at this. Shooting away Blount's focus token, hit or miss with the attack itself, leaves him unable to fire the tracers - and this means you're left with 5 17 point Z-95s which have committed to a head-on pass with an X-wing flight. Similarly he can prevent one U-boat from firing, as can Palob Godahli.
• Redirect the shot. Kagi, again, remains useless because he helps neither against Deadeye shots or XX-23 S-Thread Tracers. Biggs, on the other hand, is as good as ever; and with damage coming in in large 'lumps', R4-D6 is a cheap, excellent upgrade.

As a result, I think that nice, mixed squads should do well.

A random squad which might do well is Biggs (R4-D6), Wes Janson (Adaptability/Veteran Instincts) and a third X-wing of your choice. Kind of Old School but that's not a bad thing.

Vader/Engine Upgrade and a pack of TIE fighters is another nice one. You'll lose the TIE fighters en masse, but that's kind of what they're for.....

Yay kagi got a mention! Also are reinforced deflectors > than SJ for dealing with ordinance? I guess it's dependent on what tokens your opponent has and whether they used up their chimps. And even if they are better for ordinance they still do nothing to things like TLT or ships with low attack dice. To me the two upgrades are a toss up unless I'm missing something

The funny thing with Deadeye ordinance and Long Range Scanners is your opponent being acutely aware of the range and arc they don't want to be in. I neutralized Soontir as a treat in one game simply buy flying near him, making him freak out, dodge arc and not have a good arc with only focus to modify, and they shot the shuttle instead like I planned from the get go.

Essentially, your options - regardless of cards - boil down to surviving a heavy "alpha strike" attack. If you can do that with relatively little loss of combat power, then what's left of your squad should (in theory) be able to take apart whatever's facing you across the board, since ordnance boats are rarely very good dogfighters once they've shot their bolt.

This can be done in the following ways:

• Shoot first and kill them before they fire - essentially out-alpha-striking. The aforementioned Contracted Scout and Gamma Squadron Veteran work well here, due to their above-average pilot skills, but in theory any PS3-5 generic swarm, in enough numbers, should blow away one or more ships with missiles unfired. As a TIE swarm and Z-swarm pilot will tell you, you always bank on losing one ship before you get around to firing. The problem is that even firing at Z-95s, you're unlikely to kill more than one, leaving 4 missiles to erase your most expensive ship, and equally, killing a Jumpmaster-500 in one volley is unlikely without ordnance of your own. If you can kill Blount, great, but again, killing him at PS9 takes some doing; your opponent is unlikely to care if he dies once the tracers have fired.
• Don't let them get into arc of fire. Easier said than done - a Jumpmaster is fairly manoeuvrable for a big ship, and, after all, the fighter can set up a lock on a turn when it doesn't have a shot. Still, a high PS boost/barrel roll ace might be able to do that, but only if you have something to keep them honest - a block of generic TIE fighters, for example.
• Don't let them get into range. Guidance Chips tempts people towards Homing/Concussion missiles rather than Cluster Missiles - this is much more useful for high PS boost/barrel roll aces as there is a range 1 'safe spot'. Even if it means collisions or taking range 1 primary weapon attacks, that's better than letting them dump missiles at you.
• Dodge the shot - unlikely. 4 dice attacks with multiple dice modifiers are **** hard to dodge. Even a TIE interceptor can't rely on evading one. Autothruster/Sensor Jammer/Glitterstim Virago has a decent chance, but even then it's going to survive, not escape undamaged.
• Prevent the shot. Target Lock denying tricks don't necessarily work because of Deadeye, and because XX-23 S-Thread tracers spawn target locks after they trigger. Wes Janson, on the other hand, can be good at this. Shooting away Blount's focus token, hit or miss with the attack itself, leaves him unable to fire the tracers - and this means you're left with 5 17 point Z-95s which have committed to a head-on pass with an X-wing flight. Similarly he can prevent one U-boat from firing, as can Palob Godahli.
• Redirect the shot. Kagi, again, remains useless because he helps neither against Deadeye shots or XX-23 S-Thread Tracers. Biggs, on the other hand, is as good as ever; and with damage coming in in large 'lumps', R4-D6 is a cheap, excellent upgrade.

As a result, I think that nice, mixed squads should do well.

A random squad which might do well is Biggs (R4-D6), Wes Janson (Adaptability/Veteran Instincts) and a third X-wing of your choice. Kind of Old School but that's not a bad thing.

Vader/Engine Upgrade and a pack of TIE fighters is another nice one. You'll lose the TIE fighters en masse, but that's kind of what they're for.....

I think you're overestimating Deadeye.

Alpha-Strikes will often want as much ordnance as they can afford, and that means being unable to afford the PS bid to grab an Elite Talent slot

I don't think Alpha Strikers really need a lot of ordnance to be effective. As I stated, I have played Vader w/ Concussion Missile to good effect and he was the only one in the list with ordnance. I think a list that has the ability to put the smack down on a single ship....even just one time....has an edge. Even if that one shot doesn't kill the target, it can put the hurt on him. In my example, if Vader and Backstabber couldn't kill something in their opening shots, the other lower Tie Fighters could usually finish it off with their measly 2 red dice attacks.

Many lists really suffer from losing a ship early on. TLT's are a great example of this. If you can kill one or two TLT's really fast, then you have a much better chance to win in that game. You might not need for everyone to have ordnance or even those that do to have more than one. You just need to do extra damage early to make it worthwhile. It's the same concept with Crack Shot. You only need to use it once to ensure that one shot gets through and does a heck of a lot of damage.

I think Guidance Chips can also play havoc with target priority. If you have a balanced list with a number of ships, imagine if one or maybe two of them are something like a Z-95 with a Missile and GC. Do you shoot at the real threats in the list? Or try to take out the Z-95 fast? It can create problems for your opponent to really figure out what the real threat is in your list. Or, if you are smart, you set it up so that many ships are threats and if they take out one element, the others will punish them. This type of an idea leads to a more balanced list.

I'm going to state this again, I think it's crucial to understand. Disposable cards can only be used once, however you only need to kill a ship once.

Essentially, your options - regardless of cards - boil down to surviving a heavy "alpha strike" attack. If you can do that with relatively little loss of combat power, then what's left of your squad should (in theory) be able to take apart whatever's facing you across the board, since ordnance boats are rarely very good dogfighters once they've shot their bolt.

This can be done in the following ways:

• Shoot first and kill them before they fire - essentially out-alpha-striking. The aforementioned Contracted Scout and Gamma Squadron Veteran work well here, due to their above-average pilot skills, but in theory any PS3-5 generic swarm, in enough numbers, should blow away one or more ships with missiles unfired. As a TIE swarm and Z-swarm pilot will tell you, you always bank on losing one ship before you get around to firing. The problem is that even firing at Z-95s, you're unlikely to kill more than one, leaving 4 missiles to erase your most expensive ship, and equally, killing a Jumpmaster-500 in one volley is unlikely without ordnance of your own. If you can kill Blount, great, but again, killing him at PS9 takes some doing; your opponent is unlikely to care if he dies once the tracers have fired.
• Don't let them get into arc of fire. Easier said than done - a Jumpmaster is fairly manoeuvrable for a big ship, and, after all, the fighter can set up a lock on a turn when it doesn't have a shot. Still, a high PS boost/barrel roll ace might be able to do that, but only if you have something to keep them honest - a block of generic TIE fighters, for example.
• Don't let them get into range. Guidance Chips tempts people towards Homing/Concussion missiles rather than Cluster Missiles - this is much more useful for high PS boost/barrel roll aces as there is a range 1 'safe spot'. Even if it means collisions or taking range 1 primary weapon attacks, that's better than letting them dump missiles at you.
• Dodge the shot - unlikely. 4 dice attacks with multiple dice modifiers are **** hard to dodge. Even a TIE interceptor can't rely on evading one. Autothruster/Sensor Jammer/Glitterstim Virago has a decent chance, but even then it's going to survive, not escape undamaged.
• Prevent the shot. Target Lock denying tricks don't necessarily work because of Deadeye, and because XX-23 S-Thread tracers spawn target locks after they trigger. Wes Janson, on the other hand, can be good at this. Shooting away Blount's focus token, hit or miss with the attack itself, leaves him unable to fire the tracers - and this means you're left with 5 17 point Z-95s which have committed to a head-on pass with an X-wing flight. Similarly he can prevent one U-boat from firing, as can Palob Godahli.
• Redirect the shot. Kagi, again, remains useless because he helps neither against Deadeye shots or XX-23 S-Thread Tracers. Biggs, on the other hand, is as good as ever; and with damage coming in in large 'lumps', R4-D6 is a cheap, excellent upgrade.

As a result, I think that nice, mixed squads should do well.

A random squad which might do well is Biggs (R4-D6), Wes Janson (Adaptability/Veteran Instincts) and a third X-wing of your choice. Kind of Old School but that's not a bad thing.

Vader/Engine Upgrade and a pack of TIE fighters is another nice one. You'll lose the TIE fighters en masse, but that's kind of what they're for.....

I think you're overestimating Deadeye.

Alpha-Strikes will often want as much ordnance as they can afford, and that means being unable to afford the PS bid to grab an Elite Talent slot

Quad Gamma Veterans can also do it, albeit if they want EM they'll have to go with a 3 point torpedo.

Also, Long Range Scanners is coming in Imp Vets. That fixes the low PS TL problem like Deadeye does, and gets even better with Deadeye.

You can put HM's on Miranda with TLT and EM for 42 points. Run that with some Tala chips Homing Missiles.

So you're not restricted to the genericwing version of ordnance lists. Some named pilots will work really well with them.

I don't think Alpha Strikers really need a lot of ordnance to be effective. As I stated, I have played Vader w/ Concussion Missile to good effect and he was the only one in the list with ordnance... Many lists really suffer from losing a ship early on.

I think this is a key observation. The topic post talks a lot about massed ordnance fire from (mostly) generic ships, but I think that--like TLT spam, or like BBBBZ, or even like 8-ship swarms--lists that have lots of ships with ordnance are going to have a fairly low impact on tournament play.

You think about how you're going to fight 4 TLTs if you find them, and you might even build around them to some degree. But when you see them in play, they either win or they fall hard and early: if you figure out a trick to beating TLTs, you've beaten the whole list. Likewise with ordnance: if you have a ship that can reliably dodge enough arcs and roll enough green dice to survive the first round, you can probably beat an alpha-strike list.

What's going to be harder to fight against is a list that folds some ordnance into a more diverse profile of threats. Off the top of my head:

Who looks at that list and thinks "Okay, easy target priority choice"? If you focus on the shuttle or Fel, Bren has the guns to make you pay for it. If you focus on Bren, you're pretty much handing Fel a pass to the endgame. There are no easy choices here, and no one strategy that's going to account for all of the possible approaches the list might use. That's the kind of ordnance list I'm afraid of.