So I have been seeing some proxy play of triple (ordnance heavy) Jumpmaster lists, and they seem to be pretty powerful. Z-95 alpha strikes also seem to be pretty powerful.

Obviously, there is no reason to believe they are overpowered as we don't even have the ship/upgrade in our hands yet, but while thinking about it, I did have an interesting thought to myself- If ordnance proves to be top line competitive, what would you fly to counter it? I'm having trouble coming up with many ideas. Maybe Crackshot swarm deals with it well, but other than that? I'm not sure.

I seriously doubt there will be an ordnance meta, in that ordnance becomes so common that you need to build entire list strategies around it. Even with all the additions, it is still less cost efficient than most other ways to boost offense. They just aren't completely pointless now. That being said, ordnance still requires ships to be in arc and often target locked. Anything that sheds or redirects target locks (Expert Handling, for example) will see more use, but generally, arc dodgers will remain effective against them. As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility. Otherwise, I don't think you'll see much other than a shift in target priority to the ships with dangerous ordnance, which are typically not that hard to focus down.

Omega Leader /thread.

Arc dodging.

Swarms seem the obvious choice. Whoop, we have more fighters than you have missiles. Have fun!

Swarms seem the obvious choice. Whoop, we have more fighters than you have missiles. Have fun!

unless they have assault missiles + ruthlessness, or just assault missiles.

Flares. But they don't exist yet.

Swarms seem the obvious choice. Whoop, we have more fighters than you have missiles. Have fun!

unless they have assault missiles + ruthlessness, or just assault missiles.

Then swarms without howlrunner....

Expert Handling.

Yeah, I would expect Swarms to be a fairly powerful counter to ordnance builds. Arc-dodging could also work, but would probably be much more hit or miss.

A ship build like Super Dash, or Whisper could work if flown well. It also depends on the ordnance brought to the table. Ion missiles could lock down an ace, and assault missiles could wreck swarms.

Expert Handling.

So trollish... imagine, blount gets his lock, lining up an assault missile. Then <nope!> over, and over again.

thank god for deadeye.

It's Expert Handling's time to shine!!!!

I seriously do enjoy it as a EPT, though. Great on ships that cannot normally Barrel Roll. Nothing like seeing a HWK Barrel Roll. And with all the FCS and TL shenanigans going on, seems like a good time to break it out again.

Having an "ordnance list" implies a lot of ships with ordnance. That means generics. Generics have low PS. Anything that can blast a ship before it unloads the ordnance is considered good against ordnance ships.

I think having a list that was more than 3 ships would be a good thing. Maybe not a swarm, but a good number of ships. That said, but cheap ships with high agility are the worst. You might get a good roll and evade an entire missile that way. Or most of one.

B-wings are a lot of ship to chew through. So are Hound's Teeth and other big ships.

It's Expert Handling's time to shine!!!!

I seriously do enjoy it as a EPT, though. Great on ships that cannot normally Barrel Roll. Nothing like seeing a HWK Barrel Roll. And with all the FCS and TL shenanigans going on, seems like a good time to break it out again.

or how about a BR'ing Oincunn with ion projectors!! TAKE THAT LOW PS Ordnance carrier!

fingers crossed for conner Ks

Corran/Biggs/Stresshog.

Corran/Biggs/Stresshog.

CAPTAIN KAGI REPORTING FOR DUTY!!!!!!!!!!

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!187:152,153:-1:-1:;53:161,-1,132,-1:-1:14:;163:18,73:27:15:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Captain Kagi

Reinforced Deflectors

Palp

Tactical Jammer

OL

Juke Comms

Inquisitor

PTL

Prockets

Title

AT

OR....

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!187:152,153:-1:-1:;53:161,-1,132,-1:-1:14:;62:18:5:15:M.1&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

Exchange Inquisitor for...

Carnor Jax

PTL

AT

SD

Title.

If your running a large ship as a center point for your list countermeasures could be useful. At 3 point it's a little pricy for a one time use though IMO.

alternatively,

there is no counter; only BOOM!

Countermeasures are crazily overpriced. It really should be 1 point. But even at 1 point, most of the time you'll want Engine Upgrade anyway.

High-ish PS, high damage ships that idealy have good damage mitigation. I am thinking Crackbots right now, but those already fall to 4 Bombers with Homing Missiles, so my intuition obviously is off.

Countermeasures are crazily overpriced. It really should be 1 point. But even at 1 point, most of the time you'll want Engine Upgrade anyway.

Countermeasures is one of those cards that could be so fun if priced correctly. So sad it's 2 points too many...

Countermeasures are crazily overpriced. It really should be 1 point. But even at 1 point, most of the time you'll want Engine Upgrade anyway.

Countermeasures is one of those cards that could be so fun if priced correctly. So sad it's 2 points too many...

I think a list with a lot of mid-PS strong jousters is the toughest sort of list for an Ordnance heavy meta to take down. Those sorts of ships can thin down the alpha strikers before they fire, and they can sustain damage better than a lot of lists. They're also better up close, where Ordnance is usually not as strong. Basically, any list with one really important ship is at a disadvantage against ordnance. If you have 3-4 roughly equal ships, you're in much better shape, because the loss of one in an ordnance barrage is much less crippling.

Edit:

Also, specific counters like Expert Handling, Countermeasures, and Kagi are probably still not going to be all that useful. A lot of the strongest ordnance lists, I think, will be Deadeye based, and those will all be pretty much dead weight against Deadeye alpha strikes.

I seriously doubt there will be an ordnance meta, in that ordnance becomes so common that you need to build entire list strategies around it. Even with all the additions, it is still less cost efficient than most other ways to boost offense. They just aren't completely pointless now. That being said, ordnance still requires ships to be in arc and often target locked. Anything that sheds or redirects target locks (Expert Handling, for example) will see more use, but generally, arc dodgers will remain effective against them. As far as secondary weapons go, cannons are still way more effective both in points and flexibility. Otherwise, I don't think you'll see much other than a shift in target priority to the ships with dangerous ordnance, which are typically not that hard to focus down.

This would all be true, except that it ignores one thing: ordnance with Guidance Chips will erase ships in the first exchange of fire. That is a huge paradigm shift. The ability to hit a huge TL+F alpha strike has, until Wave 8, meant a very heavy investment in points.

This is only an illustration, showing why the Alpha Strike meta is going to be huge, so take it only in the way intended.

A really good ship: Dagger + FCS + HLC (33).

Two cheap Alpha Strike Meta ships: Tala + ConcussionM + GuidanceC (34)

There are some possible outcomes (and obviously init is huge):

(1) The Dagger wins init, rolls awesomely and its chosen target blanks out on greens. Win for the Dagger.

(2) Anything else happens? Win for the Talas, with at least one, possibly both still alive. Weak, yes: just Headhunters, possibly one of them crippled. But alive. And the Dagger is not.

The Alpha Strike meta is going to be huge, folks. I am not looking forward to it. And that's not because I don't want to see Bombers and Z-95s (the vast majority of carriers) do well in the game. I do. I just don't want games decided, effectively, at the list-building stage. And we're gonna see that much more than we do now.

As of now, even the most lopsided match-up is maybe 3-to-1 in favor of one list, all else equal (and that estimating high, it's likely closer to 2-to-1); in the Alpha Strike meta, expect to see lots and lots of games with a favorite at 9-to-1 or so.