Could FFG solve this issue by adding in the additional regular and elite cards for the duplicate troops in the expansions but give them the skirmish icon?

That's not a bad idea really.

Huh? Hasbro doesn't have a SW minis game. They gave up on that years ago.

That's the whole point... If Star Wars was really all it took, then that game would still be going.

There are many reasons why the WOTC game failed. WOTC planned poor expansions, the collectible minis market took a hit when the economy dropped (I'm surprised Heroclix is still around), and it was a lull in the Star Wars movie timeline. WOTC and FFG are handling a minis game at two different points in the life of Star Wars.

WOTC's game didn't fail, so much as WOTC really, really wanted to get out of everything other than Magic and D&D, I'd blame Dreamblade more for them getting rid of all their extra games.

Yes, but right now Star Wars is the hotness.

Nuh-uh, your MOM is the hotness!

The problem is though, with the map rotation as of the 2nd of April, to play officially sanctioned IA you NEED the core set, Twin Shadows AND Return To Hoth, the latter 2 just for a couple tiles.

Is there a link to that? I don't doubt you I just didn't see anything in the news about it.

Edit: Nevermind I saw the thread on the Skirmish forum with the twitter link.

then eventually just like anyone who gets into the game they go deep getting all or most expansions anyways.

While I think that's likely too, it's still an assumption on our part. The people who need to be convinced of that is FFG not us.

As it is the buy in up front is the biggest barrier to the game becoming more popular.

Yeah it is. The core set isn't bad, $100 is a good chunk of money but for what you get it's not bad and it's on par with starter packs for most other games. But when you're looking at $200 to have the bare minimum... That's going to turn most anyone off. Worse in a year they could have maps from all 3 packs meaning the entry point for sanctioned skirmish is $240... It pains me to say it, but we're not talking about GW level prices.

You get a ton of stuff for that price, but unless you play the campaign that's a lot of money for the sake of a few tiles.

Ya and that is just it, we are complaining now, but imagine what it will be like in another 2-3 expansions. Nobody is going to want to pay 300+ just to be able to show up at tournaments.

This model is backwards with the large upfront spending and then picking off little AVP's to flush out your list as you decide what you want to play.

I understand with X-Wing the starter set isn't enough, but at least it has a good price point to get into the game. It gets you playing the game at home, you like it, you start building out your list and buying X-Pacs from there. Your total cost for a competitive list that is comparable to what you get from the box expansions of IA has already been confirmed as cheaper by multiple posters in multiple threads, and quite a bit cheaper I think it was half the cost. That is a massive problem and will only make things worse the farther along we get. So if you think that this player base is small now, wait a year and see. Not only will you have people refusing to pay that much to get into a game, you will also see people sick of being forced to buy these big boxes just to show up at tourneys. It's one thing to drop a sweet buff in a X-Wing expansion that people really want in their lists. And another thing to drop a card that basically says "Hey you have to have this at the tourney to show up or to bad you can't play."

How much out rage would there be?

Thats not going to happen it seems, players have been asking for legalised printed maps virtually since competitive skirmish began in March last year and there has as far as I know not been any respone to the question at all.

The issue with printed maps is that they would in theory let you play Skirmish without actually buying a core set.I mean what do you really need to play Skirmish? You need the map, the figures, dice and a few tokens. Other than the tokens if you could use printed maps, you could buy a few A&V packs, a set of dice and be done with it.Even if not having the tokens was a big issue, so everyone bought the core set, it would really damage the sales of the box sets. If you play Rebels, what exactly in that box do you need for skirmish? You can get 3PO and R2 from a A&V pack, you don't need the heroes... Even Imperials only miss out on Heavy Stormtroopers.So if you didn't need the tiles then there isn't a ton of reason to buy that box if you only play skirmish. Or any other box as far as I can tell.

Well you do need the command cards from the core set/expansions, too. Although you can get away from that buy buying a bunch of AV packs.

i almost exclusively play at my house or my friend's so were eventually going to either buy printed maps or one of us will end up building a gaming table with a built in LCD tv for the playing surface. I really empathize with anyone else who wants to play this game competitively due to the initial cost of getting started but there are worse starting costs for some other hobbies out there yhan this game.

I understand with X-Wing the starter set isn't enough, but at least it has a good price point to get into the game.

The thing is, for X-Wing, and Armada, or even the LCG's... You need a core set and then everything else is in theory optional. With X-wing and Armada you don't have enough stuff for a full list, but you can get that easily by buying expansions. But no single expansion is required.

Which is not true of Imperial Assault. That is going to harm the game in the long run, when people have to buy not only the models they want, but also buy box sets they don't want for the sake of the tiles.

I really empathize with anyone else who wants to play this game competitively due to the initial cost of getting started but there are worse starting costs for some other hobbies out there yhan this game.

That depends on what hobby you're talking about. In the miniature game world, there aren't many that are much worse. I mean the worse one is Warhammer 40k, but at least with that game most of what you buy is stuff you actually want.

But with Imperial Assault, someone who has no interest in the campaign can look at spending $100 for Twin Shadows and Return to Hoth, and only because they need a couple tiles from each box. $100 for 4-5 pieces of cardboard is hardly a good deal.

This policy will rather quickly ensure that the only people playing IA skirmish at official events are people who play both the campaign and skirmish.

And also tocino we aren't really trying to compare this game to other hobbies but directly to other games in its space, like X-Wing. My fishing gear cost me a hell of a lot more than IA did, I am one of those rare weirdos around here who has his Plano tackle box actually full of tackle But we want to look at this game versus similar games and see why they are so much more popular. And right now the main thing we are able to identify is the price of entry.

The point is to try and attract new players, it is nice for FFG that some of their main competition is other titles they run, win win for them, but it isn't their ONLY competition and if you want a product to not only survive but be successful they need to look at the bigger picture.

I understand with X-Wing the starter set isn't enough, but at least it has a good price point to get into the game.

The thing is, for X-Wing, and Armada, or even the LCG's... You need a core set and then everything else is in theory optional. With X-wing and Armada you don't have enough stuff for a full list, but you can get that easily by buying expansions. But no single expansion is required.

Which is not true of Imperial Assault. That is going to harm the game in the long run, when people have to buy not only the models they want, but also buy box sets they don't want for the sake of the tiles.

I really empathize with anyone else who wants to play this game competitively due to the initial cost of getting started but there are worse starting costs for some other hobbies out there yhan this game.

That depends on what hobby you're talking about. In the miniature game world, there aren't many that are much worse. I mean the worse one is Warhammer 40k, but at least with that game most of what you buy is stuff you actually want.

But with Imperial Assault, someone who has no interest in the campaign can look at spending $100 for Twin Shadows and Return to Hoth, and only because they need a couple tiles from each box. $100 for 4-5 pieces of cardboard is hardly a good deal.

This policy will rather quickly ensure that the only people playing IA skirmish at official events are people who play both the campaign and skirmish.

Well, they are getting more than just the tiles for the $100. Paying $100 for the required map tiles also gets you units to use in the skirmish game as well, but I see your point.

If a player is only interested in a single faction, the expansions are definitely a diminished return, especially when you look at the fact that when you get two trooper units, you only get one of each level's deployment card:

Imperial: Snowtrooper Squad x2, SC2-M Repulsor tank, Heavy Stormtrooper x2 = $76 in A&V packs if you rationalize the SC2-M as the same price point as the Bantha.

Merc: Wampa x2, HKs x2, Tusken Raiders x2 - $78 in A&V packs

Rebel: Single Hero x5 = $50 in A&V packs

Rebel players really get the short end of the stick.

The point is to try and attract new players, it is nice for FFG that some of their main competition is other titles they run, win win for them, but it isn't their ONLY competition and if you want a product to not only survive but be successful they need to look at the bigger picture.

Actually, that's the last thing a company wants to do: poach the players of one of their lines to become players of another of their lines. That just leads to stagnation of income. They really need to look into poaching other companies miniature player bases to increase their own profits.

We know that component limitation (# of deployment cards) and map set-up are two big sticking points with skirmish players right now.

FFG would do well to look at other mini skirmish games and see if the current issues with IA are plaguing other games. If there are other successful games that are able to get around component limitations and map set ups, those games may be more attractive to gamers. They may not jump ship if they are used to getting everything they need in one purchase and have printed maps readily available for use.

Paying $100 for the required map tiles also gets you units to use in the skirmish game as well, but I see your point.

Sure you get units you can use, but how many of them are really viable? Does anyone use the heroes from TS in skirmish? I mean you can, but are they competitive?

Clearly a bit part of the cost of those box expansions are the campaign stuff in them, which if you play the campaign is completely worth it. But if all you do is skirmish there has been so far little value in those boxes. Or in some cases the need to buy more than one...

I just think that having non-core maps in the rotation will end up biting FFG in the butt at some point. I mean at some point you could have a map rotation that has maps from two big box expansions and one small box. At that point you're looking at having to spend $260 plus the cost of any A&V packs you may want.

If there are other successful games that are able to get around component limitations and map set ups, those games may be more attractive to gamers.

That's just it... Most other skirmish level games or even the larger ones like 40k or Flames of War, don't require tiles to play on. It's assumed that the TO's will provide the scenery for each table and the only thing you have to have is the models for your list.

Take Warmachine for example. For $120 you can buy a all-in-one Army Box. That has enough units to build a full sized list. At that point anything else you buy is completely optional. If you want to go play at official events, all you're really expected to bring with you is those models and some dice.

That's why having to spend up wards of $100 or more simply so you have the required tiles is a big problem.

Compare IA to other skirmish level miniatures games made by other companies. Actually, it's quite cheap.

Compare IA to other skirmish level miniatures games made by other companies.

Depends on which game. Some games are actually cheaper, some are more. But if they keep putting maps from the expansions into the mix the price of Imperial Assault starts to go up rather quickly for a skirmish only player.

Yea that's a major problem, the cost will grow exponentially with each required box expansion instead of just ... here is an optional, although awesome, new figure for a flat rate. Buy it if you like or not.

The current Own every expansion or don't show up tournament policy is not great for promoting the game.

Like I said before, what would happen if X-Wing required every player to buy their newest shiniest expensive big ship or not even be able to play in their tournaments?

Attendance at that tournament would suffer, and by the third or fourth time that happened? Game would be crippled permanently. I understand they hide upgrade cards in these packs, and that is a clever business model. But they would never flat out say Sorry you can't play without that ship. That is what is happening to IA players right now.

So what is better:

Requiring skirmish players to buy the bigger expansions for the game tiles to play in events

-or-

Requiring skirmish players to buy a new FFG produced slip resistant natural rubber mat 3 times a year as they rotate new mats in and out of the OP structure?

Because if skirmish players really would be up for paying $100 a year to stay current with the mat choices, I'm sure FFG would be happy to look into producing the printed mats everyone wants like they produce the mats for X-wing.

Compare IA to other skirmish level miniatures games made by other companies.

Depends on which game. Some games are actually cheaper, some are more. But if they keep putting maps from the expansions into the mix the price of Imperial Assault starts to go up rather quickly for a skirmish only player.

Which ones?

Not challenging you, just curious.

Which ones?

Deadmans Hand is under $50 for the rules and a full set of miniatures. Warmachine can be less expensive. $120 for a 35 point list box set. Malifaux and Infinity are about the same cost I think, maybe a little cheaper, maybe a little more.

Killteam Overkill is a new game from Games Workshop that's $165, but offers more models in the box then the IA core does. You get 50 odd models in there, and it plays a fair amount like Imperial Assault does.

Which ones?

Deadmans Hand is under $50 for the rules and a full set of miniatures. Warmachine can be less expensive. $120 for a 35 point list box set. Malifaux and Infinity are about the same cost I think, maybe a little cheaper, maybe a little more.Killteam Overkill is a new game from Games Workshop that's $165, but offers more models in the box then the IA core does. You get 50 odd models in there, and it plays a fair amount like Imperial Assault does.

Deathwatch Overkill is basically JUST models.

The game itself plays like a poor man's Imperial Assault with 40k fluff and d6 tables, with an extremely limited set of linear missions.

Deathwatch Overkill is basically JUST models.

It includes cards, rules, tiles, dice, 9 missions, and a lot of models. It is in fact a complete game, and not 'just the models'

Your opinion on how fun it is, really doesn't matter. It's an example of another game that really isn't much more expensive than Imperial Assault.

Lol, "Not as bad as 40k" is rather faint praise, if you ask me.

Which ones?

Deadmans Hand is under $50 for the rules and a full set of miniatures. Warmachine can be less expensive. $120 for a 35 point list box set. Malifaux and Infinity are about the same cost I think, maybe a little cheaper, maybe a little more.

Killteam Overkill is a new game from Games Workshop that's $165, but offers more models in the box then the IA core does. You get 50 odd models in there, and it plays a fair amount like Imperial Assault does.

A friend of mine wants to get a minatures game that is NOT fantasy/magic or Star Wars. Infinity and Deadman's Hand both look real good. Do you know of any others? Maybe something with a pirate theme?

Infinity and Deadman's Hand both look real good. Do you know of any others? Maybe something with a pirate theme?

I don't know of anything for Pirates. There's Bolt Action which is WWII skirmish level, a squad's worth.

Infinity and Deadman's Hand both look real good. Do you know of any others? Maybe something with a pirate theme?

I don't know of anything for Pirates. There's Bolt Action which is WWII skirmish level, a squad's worth.

Okay, thanks for the ideas. Dust looks cool, but it's dead now isn't it?

Dust looks cool, but it's dead now isn't it?

I'm not sure what's going on with that. But I do think you can pick up a fair amount fairly cheap if it is.

Deathwatch Overkill is basically JUST models.

It includes cards, rules, tiles, dice, 9 missions, and a lot of models. It is in fact a complete game, and not 'just the models'

Your opinion on how fun it is, really doesn't matter. It's an example of another game that really isn't much more expensive than Imperial Assault.

I'm aware of the components. I've played it.

If you think *that* game system is worth $165 well.... okay I guess, but it's pretty obvious that it's just an excuse to sell the figures in one big bundle.