Do we once again have that annoying generics problem of only one best thing being taken?

The TLT Y has a huge hit area and so most of the time has a shot. In fact, I'd say in a list with 2 TLTs, the TLTs have a shot 85% of the time.

In our meta, which is moderately advanced (we have worlds level players and multiple tournaments every weekend), no filler ships exist outside the TLT Y and the Z.

The Z doesn't have a problem because it fills in at half the cost of a TLT, so it fills a different size hole.

We haven't seen any IA Xwings or B wings or Kihrlaksdf anymore at top tables. They are abundant for people trying them but once you get near top 4, they completely disappear and are replaced with 2 to 4 TLT lists. With the last 4 tournaments completely won by TLT spam variants.

I'd say that there's little reason to take the 22 point B or IA X due to the 24 point TLT Y being so much easier to fly and has more shots and does basically more damage.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

I just started playing 4x TLT. And though it's maybe not as fun to play as a list with really interesting upgrades an pilot abilities, it's just consistent and you don't pay as dearly for a bad flying decision. From a competitive standpoint, they are so strong that if you really just want to win, I don't know why you wouldn't have a couple in your lists. Your last sentence there pretty well sums up my thoughts on the TLT Y.

That being said, a well flown swarm can be a problem for them.

IG-88 B is probably the best jouster, but obviously not in the same category as the Xs/Bs.

That said, XXXXZ took first in a local SC, though MOV obviously was a bit lower.

You know what won the last tournament in my area? Tie Swarm. The TLT lists just couldn't cope with the swarm flown well. The TLT is not the be all and end all that people keep making it out to be.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

Bit of an unfair comparison - one Kihraxz is 20pts, 2 Z-95's are 24pts. And I still think I'd prefer one Kihraxz to 2 Z-95's in a straight-up fight.

Well. I'm glad swarm is doing well. But honestly most people don't have the time or mental stamina to push 7 ships for 4 games.

So in that sense a tie swarm is usually not a good hard counter to anything.

Exception for wave 4 vs Han because almost nothing else beat that efficiency.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

Bit of an unfair comparison - one Kihraxz is 20pts, 2 Z-95's are 24pts. And I still think I'd prefer one Kihraxz to 2 Z-95's in a straight-up fight.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1 Kihraxz being better than 2 z-95s.

The z-95s have more durability (8 HP vs 5, same 2 greens), more offense vs. low agility targets (4 dice vs 3) and, debatable but I think so, more potential vs. high agility targets (harder to dodge 2 arcs than 1, 1 can block while the other shoots etc.). The z-95 also has a 1 forward, allowing it to joust better.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

Bit of an unfair comparison - one Kihraxz is 20pts, 2 Z-95's are 24pts. And I still think I'd prefer one Kihraxz to 2 Z-95's in a straight-up fight.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1 Kihraxz being better than 2 z-95s.

The z-95s have more durability (8 HP vs 5, same 2 greens), more offense vs. low agility targets (4 dice vs 3) and, debatable but I think so, more potential vs. high agility targets (harder to dodge 2 arcs than 1, 1 can block while the other shoots etc.). The z-95 also has a 1 forward, allowing it to joust better.

Well the Kihraxz wins the turn fight with that white hard 1, which really helps. They're gonna do a lot better than Zs once they finally get stuck in.

If TLTs are so prevalent, why not take a swarm of generics and eat them for breakfast?

Must resist urge to use the Inigo Montoya picture...

*ahem* TLT Y-wings are not jousters. They are significantly worse in a joust than the IA X-wing, B-wing, AC Tempest, etc. I believe you mean filler ship or workhorse.

I still see B's or occasionally X's in their 22pt versions - but I see them as wingmen to a fat ship where there was obviously, eg, 44pts spare but not 48.

Thing is, TLTs actually outgun 3die primaries against most agilities because while their damage may be capped, the odds of getting that damage is higher, and they've got much better odds of landing the shot.

So yeah, 3-die jousters are being squeezed out, it seems. Particularly ironic for Scum, who got their jouster in the same wave as the card to render it obsolete...

Yup exactly.

Btw, in this case, I mean jousters as damage in role function. Not literally flying straight at someone jousting. Side jousting? Side saddle?

Also, has anyone had the fun times of going against Chewie 2 Y? Wheeeeeeeee.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

Bit of an unfair comparison - one Kihraxz is 20pts, 2 Z-95's are 24pts. And I still think I'd prefer one Kihraxz to 2 Z-95's in a straight-up fight.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1 Kihraxz being better than 2 z-95s.

The z-95s have more durability (8 HP vs 5, same 2 greens), more offense vs. low agility targets (4 dice vs 3) and, debatable but I think so, more potential vs. high agility targets (harder to dodge 2 arcs than 1, 1 can block while the other shoots etc.). The z-95 also has a 1 forward, allowing it to joust better.

Well the Kihraxz wins the turn fight with that white hard 1, which really helps. They're gonna do a lot better than Zs once they finally get stuck in.

What kind of madness is this?

The Kihraxz fighter sucks balls on a pre-iA x-wing level mate, i'm sorry.

What kind of madness is this?

The Kihraxz fighter sucks balls on a pre-iA x-wing level mate, i'm sorry.

LOL no, learn to play the game. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1 Kihraxz being better than 2 z-95s.

Note I'm not saying it's mathematically better; just that I'd prefer the Kihraxz. Especially considering for the same points value I could throw Glitterstim on it and still have initiative over 2 x Bandits.

What kind of madness is this?

The Kihraxz fighter sucks balls on a pre-iA x-wing level mate, i'm sorry.

LOL no, learn to play the game. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

What?

I get the feeling more and more that TLT should have been a 2 dice turret instead of three. That would pretty much solve everything about it. It would still be a good counter to fat 1-die turrets, but wouldnt be as big of a threat to anything else.

I get the feeling more and more that TLT should have been a 2 dice turret instead of three. That would pretty much solve everything about it. It would still be a good counter to fat 1-die turrets, but wouldnt be as big of a threat to anything else.

Also, it's be rubbish against most other things, so such lists would be knocked out early in the competition and thus be irrelevant.

The TLT Y is a bit less efficient than a jouster

But not less efficient enough that the advantages of a range 2-3 turret diminish

They're very efficient turrets, compared to most pwts apparently (and the garbage that is blaster turret)

The crack tie is best jouster, until defenders hit

Problem is jousters can't do diddly to palp swarm

Like above, I think once TIE/D Defenders hit the tables they'll be the top dog regarding jousting.

Even without TLTs, why take a Kihraxz when you can take 2 z-95s? That ship is at best bit better than non-IA X-Wings.

Bit of an unfair comparison - one Kihraxz is 20pts, 2 Z-95's are 24pts. And I still think I'd prefer one Kihraxz to 2 Z-95's in a straight-up fight.

I'm having a hard time imagining 1 Kihraxz being better than 2 z-95s.

The z-95s have more durability (8 HP vs 5, same 2 greens), more offense vs. low agility targets (4 dice vs 3) and, debatable but I think so, more potential vs. high agility targets (harder to dodge 2 arcs than 1, 1 can block while the other shoots etc.). The z-95 also has a 1 forward, allowing it to joust better.

Well the Kihraxz wins the turn fight with that white hard 1, which really helps. They're gonna do a lot better than Zs once they finally get stuck in.

What kind of madness is this?

The Kihraxz fighter sucks balls on a pre-iA x-wing level mate, i'm sorry.

Thats why our latest Winter Kit and Store Championship were won by the same guy with the same list:

2 x Cartel Marauder + Glitterstim (22 a piece)

Palob TLT Bossk Crackshot

Torkhil TLT Tactician

You severely underestimate how much better the Kihraxz dial is. That hard 1 and those 4-5 K turn are golden.

He's undefeated, 4 games and 6 games at those tournaments

In my area, we have a fairly competitive X-wing community. In the 12+ stores within an hours drive for me, it is common to see top level players at just about every tournament. The 4 TLT Y lists were popular when they first came out. We would see 2 or 3 at any given tournament. Now it is very rare to see any at all. They are far from unbeatable. Yes, they are a noob killer and fairly easy to play if you can roll average on your attacks. An experienced player with a solid build can defeat them though. When they arrived, it really helped the meta. Non-dodgy ships got melted away in a couple of rounds of combat. There is only a couple of holdouts playing them anymore. It really goes against the "Fly Casual" attitude of our experienced players. If you play them and are not a noob, you are just a jerk! lol

What kind of madness is this?

The Kihraxz fighter sucks balls on a pre-iA x-wing level mate, i'm sorry.

LOL no, learn to play the game. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

What?

He's right, Khiraxzs may have the same problem that X-wings do, but they do have a hard 1 which is *awesome* and they're a point cheaper. 4 points cheaper than two Zs with their piddly two dice attacks and roughly same-as X-wing dial, so yeah they're probably better than a pair of Zs in capable hands.

Best Jousters? I don't know. Predator of TIE Fighters and their fickle green dice? The alt art depicts that pretty clearly.

Offhand I'd say no, they're not. They don't have huge damage potential, it's actually really weak in that regard.

That being said, I am an Imperial player so if I'm jousting you then I'm probably doing something wrong (and stupid). Beyond that, TLT Y-Wings are actually worse than some other Y-Wings for being attacked from the side. Normally with something like, say, an Ion cannon, you'd be at an advantage. After the initial attack, many faster ships might have trouble slowing down enough to get repeated shots at good angles, since the Y-Wing is the king of slow-playing. However, if a TLT Y-Wings wants to shoot in subsequent turns, it has to take fast maneuvers, allowing dogged attackers to stay at range 1. I've made sure to get in games against them this week, and I've found that Defenders (no proxies), Bombers, and even regular TIE Fighters seem to be the utter bane of the TLT Y-Wing's existence. Though I must say that I haven't gotten to face any quad lists yet. They've mostly been mixes lists. But in all actuality, being mixes lists actually made them harder to deal with because of other cheeky characters like Biggs, who did a good job of making it **** near impossible to focus on the Y's.

Except for Rexler, I always made sure he didn't have Biggs in arc.