So, I've been fiddling around with some variants of Palp Aces, (and not to make this the focus of the thread,...) I've decided that the standard Soontir VaderVI Palp is just likely the best combination overall.

Now, one reason I tried to make a variant is cuz I "suck" at playing Soontir Fel.

Here are my problems:

1. I do get blocked or make a silly move into an unintentional bump or even sometimes a rock. (Hey it happens. About once every 2 games).

2. I really hate playing the long drawn out run away game. My playstyle is to go in guns blazing and kill things before they shoot back at me.

So, what do you think is the best way I can start to learn to incorporate a more conservative playstyle?

What mods on Soontir? I tried Targeting Computer and wasn't super thrilled. I'd love Stealth or Hull, but I do like a 98 bid against opposing mirrors. Without the bid you have to learn to play both with initiative and without, and that is pretty difficult. I'd factor that against good player who understand how to block, that initiative is about a 5 to 10% help. Notable, but also not the catch-all. I've had a much harder time beating mirrors with them moving first than I'd expect.

I'm really considering Tie-mk engine cuz I love running VI Carnor with his 3 slights and other moves.

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Movement: How do you create longer term firing solutions with Soontir and Vader? Vader especially, as the TL'ed ship tends to try and fly past Vader, so he can't get them for a second shot.

How do you create your openings? I tend to simply deploy a flank and fly in, but we tend to become nearly face to face upon the first round of firing. Should I skip my first opportunity to snipe at R3 with Soontir, instead, let him take 1 or 2 free TLT R3 shots so I can come in really from a serious side angle?

Finally, how do you start telling if your opponent is guessing your movements well? In a risky situation where something needs to die, how do you know you can make the less conservative move for more firepower?

In Magic, they had "next level thinking" which said that you had to be able to guess what level of interaction your opponent was thinking: 0. they aren't thinking about messing you up. 1. they're thinking of blocking the most obvious move. 2. they think you aren't going to do that most obvious move, so now they're going to try and block or catch the second choice.

Having played a TON of palp/aces lately I'll take a stab at this:

1. Blocking happens. You have to practice flying more unpredictably. Yes, there is probably an amazing OMGSWEET move each and every time you grab that dial. Is your opponent aware of it? Because with Soontir you can just as easily long 3 past a rock, boost/roll and be in another position to shoot as 1 hard. Or, if you're stressed, go the other way a turn, or even straight. Get them OUT of position to where there's nothing they can do about it. Get them to throw unmodified dice any chance you can!

1b: Rocks. Are you using the 3 biggest ones? You should be. You want to fly the rocks better than anyone else. I'd say I'm about 1:15 or 1:20 games of hitting a rock. Every other game? You need practice flying! Flip a coin or a token onto the map, then move your ships into the best shot you can have on it in one turn. Flip it again, one turn, get a shot. Now, flip it and get a range 1 shot in 2 turns. Put all your asteroids on the field, range 1 apart from one another. Fly that field back and forth until you can REALLY get a feel for that!

2. Hell yes! The best defense is a good offense! The only thing you have to be care of is to know when NOT to go blazing in: IE TLT's. Or swarms. Know your limits on the guns blazing part.

Mods on Soontir: My favorite hands down is the targeting computer. You just keep playing defensively (focus/evade) until you're out of all arcs, then TL. Or get that range 1 when you can guarantee to kill them. (TL+Focus will RARELY miss on all dice). I never had any luck with green 3 banks, didn't help too much. Stealth is the way to go if your area is HEAVY TLT's.

The Flank: You have to present a good target to pull off a flank with Fel. He has to be alone. Which means this: Joust with your shuttle. Put them at 3 dice on either side and see what they go for. You can always turtle up Fel with Palp's help. If they take down the shuttle first, you should have destroyed at least a ship, maybe 2, to get Fel/Vader to mid/end game. Then its game over. If you see that they are going for your flanker, run. RUN FOREST RUN. 4 forward + Boost/Barrel roll is really fast! THen your main force becomes the flank. Abuse it!

Creating longer term firing solutions: Run the shuttle up the middle. Turn Fel into one flanker, Vader into the other. If he's coming right at you RUN with that ship and flank with the other 2. Sit at range 3 with Vader, do some pot shots, look for that GREAT shot. Do 1-banks with him, barrel roll backwards. With Fel you have to feign one ship, then move in for the kill on another. Take them by surprise.

I did read "next level magic", but I don't remember the part about thinking. However, there will most likely be a MOST DETRIMENTAL move you could make, I usually plan for that one. Because all other moves may still be bad, but the one where you bump soontir with 3 ships behind him is the super bad one. You can't do that one. However, you can still run soontir at 5, or 1 hard, and probably not be in as bad of a spot. You have Palp, he can take a hit or two (unless he has stealth device of course), just no crits!

But this all leads to the obvious answer: practice more.

My honest recommendation?
​Play a Fortress list at some point.

My version of the Fortress, at least: one that sits stationary until the enemy is in striking distance, then explodes into a surprise kill.

A list where any inopportune extension is over-extension will help to reign in your impulses.

Find a bodhi tree there you shall meditate on the fel, leave you will not until patience you have learnt.

..... I am actually astounded at the level of wisdom I just received. Hahaha! I'll get that tree. And I've been thinking maybe I should practice some fortress!

Okay: With Soontir Vader Palp, if you put the palp shuttle in the middle, doesn't it make it much harder to get any more shots into not just late-game, but MID-GAME also? On a corner, I find that the shuttle flanking gives me shots all the way into midgame.

Though, I can see that I'm definitely having a problem of triple flanker in this case. The problem is this: everyone so far that I've met in this area has wanted to 4 5 straight and blow up my shuttle as fast as possible. And honestly, I don't want to give them palpatine for free like that.

Give me more thoughts and some examples? =)

*almost* everyone does that "park it in the corner for awhile" on palp. I may do that for a turn at most depending on how the asteroids are setup and how the other fleet is setup. If everyone is gunning for the shuttle as fast as possible, then set it up in the middle behind some dense asteroids. Joust them. Or run that shuttle right across the rocks. Do whatever you can to get them out of position so your aces can get in that donut and do work! Not only does the shuttle make an awesome blocker... but its also pretty good at shooting! 3 dice and all, and if you don't use Palp beforehand you can really make it hurt with the shuttle!

Unless your area is filled with boosting big ships, you have a turn to plan. You can also put your shuttle completely sideways in the corner and do a 3 straight with it along the back edge. That thing is actually pretty good at running!

I try and run from TLT lists to get them in bad positions in the asteroids. I try and joust aces to get them in bad positions. I try and get anyone to follow me into the rocks to (you guessed it) put them in bad positions. I almost always bank on my ability to fly better and predict their movements better in the rocks to get the hand up. Palp does the rest! In your list, Palp is arguably the jouster. Unless you get both Fel and Vader at range 1 tokened up on something with 5 hitpoints or less... you may not kill it before it fires.

Give us an example of an opponent's list that you just can't figure out what to do with!

My Palp+aces list is OGP/Emp, Whisper/VI/ACD/Kallus/SJ, Omega Leader/Comm/Juke. And twice now I've just been nailed by Palp/VI Vader/Juno. Juno is impossible to block, and Vader with Prockets is just my bad matchup. I've tried out guessing them with Whisper, doing crazy stuff like parking her in front of an asteroid to shoot. Cloak, K turn behind a shuttle, you name it. I've tried it. And I guess this list is just my kryptonite. One day I'll get it! I've got 14 wins with mine (and a store champ) and 2 losses to "The" bad list. My only hope is to fly against it more, figure out more of what Juno can do (adjusting speeds is ridiculously good at PS10 against my list).

Another trick you can do is play the "other" list. THe one that always gets you. Figure out what the ideal way to play it is, what its weaknesses are, and what matchups are bad for that list that keeps killing you. Then exploit it!

Maybe think of someone other than Fel?

I've flown Carnor (stealth ptl auto) Omega Leader (comms, juke, stealth) OGP with emperor, sensor jammer and engine...

Fly Jax into the middle of the enemy, keep OL and the shuttle at long range ..

I played CarnorVI version for 10 or so games. Enough to note that it was not an appreciable advantage.

OL is nice, but you're wasting about 10 points in that particular configuration with Carnor. OL's other problem is that he still only throws 2 dice and commonly doesn't do more than 1 damage a turn.

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As for what beats me... Well, the mirror is a pain. And large ship lists oddly enough. Han Jake, Bossk 2 TLT.

I do know how to beat them, its about even. But I want my list and prep to give me at least a little boost. 50-50 aint good enough odds for me. I ain't no Han Solo.

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Yes, I do use Palp for the joust, but lately my opponents have simply decided they wanted to blow up Palpatine no matter what. I love those 3 extra dice. Ugh. So good. And the block. So good. =) Shuttle is my favorite ship.

best way to learn patience? get married and have kids. you learn patience fast

I teach elementary and middle schoolers tho

(Definitely not English though.)

I teach elementary and middle schoolers tho

(Definitely not English though.)

I teach Primary, and I run a school club. Two of the 12yr olds attended their first tournament a month back. Sure, they got last and second last, but they had a great time

I remember some wise words from a friend. "Play like a scared baby"

I remember some wise words from a friend. "Play like a scared baby"

Wet yourself then suck your thumb?