7.5 = 6 rounds + 1 hour to drive home = 7:30 without no breaks what so ever.

This was back with 60 min rounds. But even with 75 min rounds this year's Store Championship at the event center with around 80 people still ran quite a lot faster then the one you mention.

So once again, the fact that you had one very poorly run tournament is in no way proof that anything needs to change, other than how tournaments are run there.

If FFG and other places can run a 6 round tournament in a reasonable amount of time that proves it can be done, and if it's not it's not the fault of the rules or the system.

Bottom line is, your premise is wrong and has been proven wrong.

Not long enough!!!

I like playing all day versus different opponents with the same squad.

7.5 = 6 rounds + 1 hour to drive home = 7:30 without no breaks what so ever.

This was back with 60 min rounds. But even with 75 min rounds this year's Store Championship at the event center with around 80 people still ran quite a lot faster then the one you mention.So once again, the fact that you had one very poorly run tournament is in no way proof that anything needs to change, other than how tournaments are run there.If FFG and other places can run a 6 round tournament in a reasonable amount of time that proves it can be done, and if it's not it's not the fault of the rules or the system.Bottom line is, your premise is wrong and has been proven wrong.

Edit: FFG OP has a choice to make. Do they have truly competitive tournaments with enough rounds for solid cuts, maybe pushing some people away or do they cap events, make then shorter (either in rounds or game time) or do something else. I think that the former maintains the I integrity of the game and premier events more than the latter.

I'm like the OP, with a lot going on and so I choose to attend fewer store championships, but I realize that's my own choice and not the format.

So to sum up, and in answer to your topic headline of "Who thinks X Wing Tournaments are way too long?", the answer from now 7 pages of discussion is...

Virtually no one except you appears to believe this. Do you see a trend emerging here?

So to sum up, and in answer to your topic headline of "Who thinks X Wing Tournaments are way too long?", the answer from now 7 pages of discussion is...

Virtually no one except you appears to believe this. Do you see a trend emerging here?

harsh, but true.

and as an aside, mentioning the vassal tournament thing... I actually go to Xwing so I can hang out with people. If Im going to sit at home and play video games, xwing for computer is not going to be my choice.

At Pastimes Store Championship in Chicago yesterday there were 55 (!) participants. Round one started at noon (store has a hard opening of 11 am). We played 6 matches with a cut to top 8. The finals match started at 1 am. The tournament organizer gave everyone 10 minutes between rounds with a 20 minute break between swiss and cut.

It was long; I got home at 3:30 am. I heard there is talk of people making Regionals two days (swiss day 1, elimination day 2). I'm not opposed.

Edit: FFG OP has a choice to make. Do they have truly competitive tournaments with enough rounds for solid cuts, maybe pushing some people away or do they cap events, make then shorter (either in rounds or game time) or do something else.

Per the tournament rules the max number of swiss is 7 with a cut to the top 16, that's for over 149 people.

That means the longest a tournament reasonably should run up to the finals is 16 or so hours. Which is a long day no doubt and then you have the finals. That is also for a much bigger tournament than the OP had. An extra round of Swiss and an extra round for the top 16.

I could see an argument being made for limiting Store Championships to 64 people. But that's still a day long event. But even then... You should be well aware of what the day is going to look like before you show up.

If I can't deal with the length of a 150+ person tournament then I can look for smaller ones or just not play.

But time limit has to be over 60 minutes per game, and you can't really expect to get good results with 4 rounds of swiss cut to the top 8 in a 100+ person tournament.

Being one of the players at the event and someone who traveled in over an hour to take part, I'd like to weigh in on a few things.

First the positive: the store, the TO and all the staff there did a great job of promoting a good atmosphere and great prize support for the players, including a very nice custom made trophy for the winner. It's my understanding that they've only recently started ramping up the X-Wing scene and they've seen great response from locals and other folks further out so have been striving to go above and beyond to make their X-wing events something worth coming out to be a part of. They originally capped the event to 50, but tried at the last minute to get more table space and open it up so they could make sure everyone who wanted to take part had a chance to. The right spirit and intentions were in place.

Things that need help/consideration for next time: By trying to be inclusive, the space became a lot more uncomfortable than it needed to be; so in that sense opening the cap hurt overall. At 50, the number of rounds remains the same, so that's less an impact - but the venue coordination, ability to communicate to all participants, confirmation of attendees at start and pairings between rounds - all of these were complicated at scale. This factored into the late start and delays between rounds as we all had to wait for everyone to be dials down before the round timer started. The TO was aware of the problem as the day went on and became more and more aggressive by game 4-6 about pushing to start and time between games - I'm fairly sure that lesson learned will be applied to future events. Lunch break was necessary, but ideas other people have mentioned about ways to bring food in instead of needing to give people time to drive out for food would be a big plus - I was also at DoW's event earlier this year and the way they brought pizza in for everyone was very nicely done.

I placed 9th, which I celebrated as 'top of the folks who get to go home now' because it WAS 11pm by the time I left and they had just called an hour break for dinner before starting top 8 eliminations. I love the game, but I was so very much done by then - I knew I was on the bubble and had every intention of dropping if I made top 8 because I was just too spent.

I'm fairly sure this was the first event of this size/scale for X-wing that they've had to run and I'm sure there were some pretty hard lessons learned from an organization standpoint around timing. Honestly the late start was the biggest hit overall; the cadence between games definitely got better at the end. I'm mostly trying to provide context because I'm reading a lot of very strong negative reactions about how it was just a 'bad TO' - I think it's more fair to acknowledge it was a new level of scope and they made it through, but need to take notes for the next time to be more efficient with kickoff and round timing.

I agree in general that I'd like to keep an event to single day and would start around 10 to allow for reasonable travel to/from like to be home before midnight, so any well-run event in my book would fit those criteria for me. I like the double-elimination idea I saw above as it also doesn't keep people having to make crazy choices and stress over can they hang in long enough for MoV to be calculated and see if they got a card to take home.

So to sum up, and in answer to your topic headline of "Who thinks X Wing Tournaments are way too long?", the answer from now 7 pages of discussion is...

Virtually no one except you appears to believe this. Do you see a trend emerging here?

harsh, but true.

and as an aside, mentioning the vassal tournament thing... I actually go to Xwing so I can hang out with people. If Im going to sit at home and play video games, xwing for computer is not going to be my choice.

Perhaps a trend, but by no means universal.

Our 20 person store champ whet this way this weekend. As TO, we opened the store 3 hours early to get ready for the 11 am start. Had a 15 minute break after round 2. Finished awards after 4 rounds of Swiss at 5pm. Top 4 went to time and the final played out at 90 after minutes. We finished just before 8pm. We only had 2 spectators for the top 4, and only 1 for the Final... which somewhat counters the idea that people want to hang out and watch things finish.

So I was at the store for just under 12 hours for a 20 man event. Those that didn't make the cut were there for around 7 hours and had 4 games (which is a good ratio, and I received many complements on how the event was run). It was that cut to the top 4 that was the killer... added another 3 hours for the Finals.

The eventual winner? He went 6-0... so the result would have been exactly the same without the top 4 playoff.

So to sum up, and in answer to your topic headline of "Who thinks X Wing Tournaments are way too long?", the answer from now 7 pages of discussion is...

Virtually no one except you appears to believe this. Do you see a trend emerging here?

I guess lunimus, Redsam, XBear, Holmelund, CDR, FTS Gecko are no one to you. So no I see don't see a trend. Like I said have your little torture fests I could care less...but I won't be stupid enough to attend another. Like I said you get better competition on Vassal anyways and better people without the wonderful smells. I'll just play casual in person and smaller tournaments.

So now xwing players are smelly?

Wow! You're really pulling out of your social graces aren't you...

I think in front of a computer screen playing vassel is probably the best place for an uncultured troll like you.

So I was at the store for just under 12 hours for a 20 man event.

Four rounds of swiss can be done in as few as 5 1/2 hours, that's 75 min rounds with 10 minutes between for getting to the next table. Add in another hour and it's 6 1/2 hours or so.

If there's a trend here, it's that you have people TO'ing events that shouldn't be.

So I was at the store for just under 12 hours for a 20 man event.

Four rounds of swiss can be done in as few as 5 1/2 hours, that's 75 min rounds with 10 minutes between for getting to the next table. Add in another hour and it's 6 1/2 hours or so.

If there's a trend here, it's that you have people TO'ing events that shouldn't be.

You seem to have missed most of my post, or are misrepresenting what I've said.

Four rounds of swiss was done in just under 6 hours... as you pointed out. I ran a tight ship, and received many complements on doing so.

Add 2 rounds of elimination and my prep/teardown as the TO and it was almost 12 hours.

You seem to have missed most of my post, or are misrepresenting what I've said.

I did. I thought you said it took 12 hours for 4 rounds of swiss, my bad there.

If your event took 5 hours for swiss then it was a well run event from the sounds of things. For a TO a 12 hour day doesn't seem to be unreasonable, but rather part of the price of being a TO.

I still go to tournaments even though I think they are too long, because I have fun. I'm just posting here to see if some idea comes out that could help with the length.

I think the long post above with earlier eliminations and the side events is interesting.

I think delays are not uncommon. I was at a tournament the other day and the start time was 10 am, 50+ players, the 6 rounds finished at 8 pm.

I only have 2 ideas:

1. capping the time it takes to set your dials (chess style) and slightly reducing the time per round down from 75

2. have some kind of tournament/league combination where your performance at one tournament assigns you a score in an online database which is accessed by all TOs and is used in future tournaments to place you in the initial rounds, reducing the number of swiss rounds needed.

So now xwing players are smelly?

Wow! You're really pulling out of your social graces aren't you...

I think in front of a computer screen playing vassel is probably the best place for an uncultured troll like you.

I honestly don't think you have a problem with me Soontir...but you seem to have a problem with the truth. Fact, human beings aren't smell neutral. Put a lot of human beings in a warm, cramped space for multiple hours and smells will occur. Not a diss to anyone...I am sure I didn't smell my best after 12 hours.

Again, I believe, and I am not the only one...that 6-7 rounds and cutting to a top 8 or 16 is too much for one day. I am expressing this belief...FFG can consider changing tournament structures or continue them. If they want to keep people like me in these tournament they will change. If not I will move on...and I'll do it without calling anyone any names. Peace out.

I honestly think vassal is the future of tournaments. Played on your schedule and your own time frame. I honestly don't think I'll play in another tourn er y unless it is the 4 round kind...with no cuts.

Vassal will never be able to replace tournaments. X-wing tournaments are a social event that doesn't translate to Vassal.

I still go to tournaments even though I think they are too long, because I have fun. I'm just posting here to see if some idea comes out that could help with the length.

I think the long post above with earlier eliminations and the side events is interesting.

I think delays are not uncommon. I was at a tournament the other day and the start time was 10 am, 50+ players, the 6 rounds finished at 8 pm.

I only have 2 ideas:

1. capping the time it takes to set your dials (chess style) and slightly reducing the time per round down from 75

2. have some kind of tournament/league combination where your performance at one tournament assigns you a score in an online database which is accessed by all TOs and is used in future tournaments to place you in the initial rounds, reducing the number of swiss rounds needed.

Good ideas Xbear...playing off it a bit. Maybe make all Store Championships 5-6 rounds...top 4 or 8 from each Store Championship moves on to regionals?

Vassal is also in a legal grey area that boardgame companies only tolerate at the moment. It can't be the future of tournament play, because if it gets to that level, you can be sure a C&D will come.

And dear god, no limiting who can play in the higher level tournaments. A few such invitational events are nice, now and again. But not the stuff that is meant to draw players in. Also, you are looking at having the opposite effect on Store Championships that way.

1. capping the time it takes to set your dials (chess style) and slightly reducing the time per round down from 75

They tried 60 and it was too short. Caping the time on your dials is not fair to some types of lists and there's already a way to deal with people staling.

So unless your goal is to force swams out of the metta completely, this is not a good idea, because any amount of time that's fair to the swarm player would have to be long enough to no longer really be a factor.

to place you in the initial rounds, reducing the number of swiss rounds needed.

Most people go to a tournament to play 4 or more games of X-Wing, reducing the number of games someone gets to play is not going to be an improvement.

Maybe make all Store Championships 5-6 rounds...top 4 or 8 from each Store Championship moves on to regionals?

That's a even worse idea.

First off Regionals aren't invitational events. Anyone can show up, even if they've never played in a Store Championship. Plus the whole point of them like the Store Championship is to get lots of people playing X-Wing.

5-6 total rounds means 4 rounds of swiss and cut to the top 2?

Vassal is also in a legal grey area that boardgame companies only tolerate at the moment. It can't be the future of tournament play, because if it gets to that level, you can be sure a C&D will come.

And dear god, no limiting who can play in the higher level tournaments. A few such invitational events are nice, now and again. But not the stuff that is meant to draw players in. Also, you are looking at having the opposite effect on Store Championships that way.

There also isn't much in the way of mitigating controls in Vassal. Your opponent could be premeasuring everything and you'd never know.

I'm much less worried about someone cheating in person than some anonymous person doing so online.

Anyone who thinks that Vassal which doesn't even require you to own a single item sold by FFG will replace official sanctioned events... Is simply delusional.

Vassal is part of its own (healthy, flourishing, awesome) ecosystem, and shouldn't be conflated with over the board play.

60 minutes is normal for our area... though I didn't feel comfortable doing that for a store championship when I knew that Regionals would be 75 minutes. At most, 2 games went to time each round of Swiss, so I'd say that we are used to 60 minute rounds.

Chess clocks get touted as a solution, but at over $40 a piece... they become problematic for a TO to purchase. They also become a problem in training people to use, etc. In the end, chess clocks could be the solution or they could cause a lot more problems.

A system of regional invitations rather than regional byes might be a good solution. The number of invitations based on the attendance of the tournament would be good as long as the system of tie-breakers was well understood. That would be a nice way to eliminate the elimination rounds completely. Even small stores that haven't had tournaments before have had good turnouts. Bigger stores in more established areas are having 50+ store championships. I don't think that Regionals needs to be the entry point like it was 2-3 years ago.

A system of regional invitations rather than regional byes might be a good solution.

So someone who finished say 9th out of 32 at a Store Championship should be barred from Regionals? Exactly how is this good for the OP circuit?

If someone isn't willing to set aside a whole day perhaps as much as 12 or so hours to play X-Wing, then the answer is simple. Stay away from large tournaments, you know as opposed to trying to ruin them for everyone else.