... You are steadily inflating your numbers. Is this unintentional, or are you trying to argue by hyperbole?

Those are real numbers.

The 35-50 min. game I think you find would be the average for most tournaments. I think FFG needs to change their guidelines.

This is freaking insane. If you don't like the length of the game, find another game. The gameplay for this game is not designed to be this quick. I mean, hell, problems arise when you only do 60 minutes. The game is designed and balanced for 100 pts. And those games deserve the 75 minute game time.

Then it isn't meant to be large number of player tournament game. Cap it..have preliminary tourneys...but you can't expect human beings to play for 12-17 hours straight.

Or maybe big tournaments aren't for you. Nothing wrong with that. I know I am debating on going to Regionals because of this. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game. I mean, if you are getting enough to 6 rounds before the cut, then you have a much bigger playgroup in the area than most.

Those are real numbers.

Length of X-Wing tournaments haven't been a problem for me lately. I've been getting absolutely ROFL-Stomped in the last 4 tourneys I've been to and have dropped after game 2 or 3 in each of them. Right now I just play like absolute crap in tournaments and can't figure out a way to fix the problem. Playing casually? No problem but, when it counts, forget about it.

I am mainly talking about making it to the final table. The one yesterday ended after 17 hours.

I think stores just NEED to open up early for these tournaments. Noon start times are too late. 10am would give you 2 additional hours.

It has always be an issue for me how long tournaments are becoming. Played in a store championship yesterday with 6 rounds of Swiss cutting to top 8. Starting at 11 am 6th round of Swiss finished at 11 pm. Top 8 was going to start after that. At that point the game isn't fun...it is torture a test of stamina and endurance. I don't know if anything can be done about it especially in a large tourneys. But I believe something has to change...60 min. rounds, making them 2 days, etc. Anyone else feel this way?

12h to play 6 rounds...? TO really needed 45 minutes to prepare next round? Sooo i see who to blame here....

How many people to play 6 rounds, how fast can you do pairings if half the field finish 1 turn after time is called.

Seventeen hours included the top 8 rounds.

I got there at 10am for registration and left at 4am after I finished losing in the championship round to Carlos. Although our championship game was untimed, it did not take longer than 75 minutes. Yes, the tournament started about an hour late, yes there was an hour lunch and a break between swiss and the top 8 rounds and there may have been a few extra minutes between rounds for player setup, but it was not a poorly run tournament and I don't think this is that much of an outlier in the 50+ tournament category. However, my experience with Xwing is limited as I started in Sep and this is the biggest tournament I've been to so far. But I am very familiar with gaming tournaments in general with 20+ years playing Warhammer, 40k and Warmachine in tournament environments.

I think we should keep 75 minute rounds, I think any shorter will prevent a significant number of games from reaching their natural conclusion. If time was shorter then you would need a mechanism to penalize players who take too much time, especially in the planning and action phases. Which would change the feel of the game.

The only thing I can think of that I would support, is prioritizing starting on time and shortening breaks. The Dogs of War tourney in Palm Bay with 40 players, ordered pizza for everyone and significantly shortened the meal break, but also was a round shorter as it did not reach the 6 round threshold.

Growing Pains, as the popularity of the game rises, we are going to have more store and TO staff that don't have the experience running Xwing tournaments especially of such a large size, and newer players who take more time between rounds to reset and get ready. I think we should cut them some slack, but also if there are resources to help them run and participate in large events, maybe publisize them more. Knowing what to expect is part of the issue.

Hopefully there are smarter people out there with more ideas. I love competing in tournaments and don't want to shorten the play time in a round, but the time required yesterday was beyond what should be required.

It's almost like a prize not to make the top 8 because you can get some sleep.

Is anyone that was at the event disputing the initial claim that with a tournament start time of 11am that the Swiss portion concluded at 11pm?

Because if that is the case, no matter how much extra prizing is given out, you can't get around that being a poorly run event.

Even taking into account the additional time associated with the "final turn" after time is called 6 rounds of play should be at most 8.5 hours. That's leaving a minimum of 3.5 hours of non-play time. Starting an hour late is absolutely an example of poorly running an event. Letting 6 rounds take 12 hours is absolutely an example of how not to run an event.

So if you aren't disputing the initial claim, you can't say the event was properly run.

But on the actual subject of the thread, you do not alter the tournament rules because the occasional venue can't handle running things in a timely fashion. The reality is you could shorten the round time, and those venues will still run 12 hour plus Swiss rounds. The 75 minute round timer isn't what's delaying the start of the event for an hour, or pairings for half an hour.

Hey Cliff...I agree that it's growing pains. Maybe feeder tourneys to capped bigger FFG events would help? I just know if you have as many people as yesterday it is going to take a very long time. Regionals will be long as well...and I might just bring another Hawk so I don't make the cut again...which is sad because I would really like to bring an A list...but honestly I don't know if I could make that late like you did! Because after certain point it isn't fun for me anymore. I am not sure what time Regionals finished last year but swiss was right at the limit of time I wanted to play.

Yeah, if you are getting 50+ people for a tournament, that is going to cause issues with the time.

And feeder tournaments aren't exactly the solution. Since these ARE the feeder tournaments.

Starting at 11 am

This is your first problem.

The TO is the second.

running a tournament over 2 days is a really bad idea people cant always find the time for 2 days of gaming. If I told my wife I was playing mutable X wing SC that took 2 day to play she would change the locks on the door while I was away

Starting at 11 am

This is your first problem.

The TO is the second.

running a tournament over 2 days is a really bad idea people cant always find the time for 2 days of gaming. If I told my wife I was playing mutable X wing SC that took 2 day to play she would change the locks on the door while I was away

it doesn't have to be 2 days in a row. that, I would not like. but 1 or 2 weeks apart should work fine. I saw the same people going to 3 different tournaments within a month time. surely one split in 2 days (not consecutively) is better than playing longer than any other sport or job is : )

I would not like going to the Part 2 tourney just to lose in the first round and lose most of my day where I could be at another tourney. Especially since I have to drive 1-2 hours to an event. It's a different story at at Convention like GenCon, where I could go off to do something else if I was knocked out soon Day 2.

Yeah, if you are getting 50+ people for a tournament, that is going to cause issues with the time.

And feeder tournaments aren't exactly the solution. Since these ARE the feeder tournaments.

Seventeen hours included the top 8 rounds.

I got there at 10am for registration and left at 4am after I finished losing in the championship round to Carlos. Although our championship game was untimed, it did not take longer than 75 minutes. Yes, the tournament started about an hour late, yes there was an hour lunch and a break between swiss and the top 8 rounds and there may have been a few extra minutes between rounds for player setup, but it was not a poorly run tournament and I don't think this is that much of an outlier in the 50+ tournament category. However, my experience with Xwing is limited as I started in Sep and this is the biggest tournament I've been to so far. But I am very familiar with gaming tournaments in general with 20+ years playing Warhammer, 40k and Warmachine in tournament environments.

I think we should keep 75 minute rounds, I think any shorter will prevent a significant number of games from reaching their natural conclusion. If time was shorter then you would need a mechanism to penalize players who take too much time, especially in the planning and action phases. Which would change the feel of the game.

The only thing I can think of that I would support, is prioritizing starting on time and shortening breaks. The Dogs of War tourney in Palm Bay with 40 players, ordered pizza for everyone and significantly shortened the meal break, but also was a round shorter as it did not reach the 6 round threshold.

Growing Pains, as the popularity of the game rises, we are going to have more store and TO staff that don't have the experience running Xwing tournaments especially of such a large size, and newer players who take more time between rounds to reset and get ready. I think we should cut them some slack, but also if there are resources to help them run and participate in large events, maybe publisize them more. Knowing what to expect is part of the issue.

Hopefully there are smarter people out there with more ideas. I love competing in tournaments and don't want to shorten the play time in a round, but the time required yesterday was beyond what should be required.

It's almost like a prize not to make the top 8 because you can get some sleep.

It should be about 1.5 hours for each round with a 75 minute time limit, maybe another 5 minutes. Even with and hour lunch breaks, this was closer to 2 hours per round. Way too long. Worlds ran 8 rounds with like 200+ players in that time frame. Regionals regulars run more players and don't have that kind of lag. It may have been growing pains, but it certainly isn't the norm.

I agree completely. I believe that X wing is designed as an entry game to miniatures (comparitvely low cost to start up and fly competitive list, easy rules, Star Wars brand, pre painted etc) for Star Wars fans. I absolutely love the game, and I play regularly between work and the gym for 3 hours in 3, 45 minute, rounds every Wednesday at our FLGS. And that's it. I don't touch it other than that. Half my shop are guys like me, and the other half play Saturday tournaments. Notably, all get tournament players are college age of just after and single. The the rest of us are homeowners, married etc. I would love to play in Saturday tournaments, but by the time they start ~12pm the day is half over as far as I'm concerned. I recognize that there is a gamer crowd that is willing to devote all afternoon and evening to playing, but many of us (I believe an even larger percentage of the target player base) is unwilling to devote that time. I know that at my shop, which is just beginning to support X wing as of January, of the 8 of us that have started playing there, 3 play in Saturday tournaments regularly, 1 did it once and for the rest of us the timing is prohibitive. I'm just in a phases of life where my free time is Saturday mornings. Hunting, golf, screwing around in the tool shed, first thing on Saturday. If registration were at 7am, and first round at 8am, if sign up tomorrow. That said, I respect that others are in a different phase of life, but even when I was in college and competed in tournaments, weigh in and registration ended at 6am. First race was 6:45. Maybe it's just what I'm used to? Well constructed and respectful thoughts?

I think something like that is completely dependent on the individual. At my game shops and tournaments, there is a very even mix of younger folks that are probably in college or just out of college and those that are married with children, and everything in between. Some although playing in a competitive field like a tournament are probably really doing it just for fun, and if they win that's just extra perks along the way. It's how they want to spend their free time. Just different strokes for different folks is all. What works for one may not work for all. Not everybody will always be happy, no matter what changes are made.

I was fine with how our shop ran their store championship. Registration was 9-9:45, first round starting at 10. Played 3 rounds, lunch break for 45 minutes, finish out the last 2 Swiss rounds, cut to top 4, had a little extended break to give people time to go to the restroom, etc. It was all wrapped up by around 8:30. We had 38 participants, which is the biggest turnout for any kind of tournament ever at that store.

The only thing I disliked about this is that 75 minutes is way too much time for me. I was at the Borderlands tournament, too. Not one of my (5) games went more than 45 minutes. Granted, I had a 4-ship list, and didn't face any huge lists (2 Decimator / Phantoms), but I can't remember the last time I actually had a game go to time. So I end up spending a lot more time just standing around doing nothing at the tournaments.

Starting at 11 am

This is your first problem.

The TO is the second.

running a tournament over 2 days is a really bad idea people cant always find the time for 2 days of gaming. If I told my wife I was playing mutable X wing SC that took 2 day to play she would change the locks on the door while I was away

it doesn't have to be 2 days in a row. that, I would not like. but 1 or 2 weeks apart should work fine. I saw the same people going to 3 different tournaments within a month time. surely one split in 2 days (not consecutively) is better than playing longer than any other sport or job is : )

I take it you have never played cricket?

1-2 weeks would be even worse now I would have to skip another store champ in X wing or Armada just to finish off one that could have been done in 1 day

last year's regionals here in Victoria had 60 players and a top 8 cut we started at 10 and were done by 11pm and there was a tie swam in top 8 that made it to the final table so the games were long.

It can be done you just need good TO's

Starting at 11 am

This is your first problem.

The TO is the second.

running a tournament over 2 days is a really bad idea people cant always find the time for 2 days of gaming. If I told my wife I was playing mutable X wing SC that took 2 day to play she would change the locks on the door while I was away

Start times need to be stricter. If the event starts at 1 pm and you show up at 1 pm with your Plano and you still have to setup, first round loss. Bring a box with just your one list and cards and tokens and templates so that setup is just a 2-3 minute thing.

I agree completely. I believe that X wing is designed as an entry game to miniatures (comparitvely low cost to start up and fly competitive list, easy rules, Star Wars brand, pre painted etc) for Star Wars fans. I absolutely love the game, and I play regularly between work and the gym for 3 hours in 3, 45 minute, rounds every Wednesday at our FLGS. And that's it. I don't touch it other than that. Half my shop are guys like me, and the other half play Saturday tournaments. Notably, all get tournament players are college age of just after and single. The the rest of us are homeowners, married etc. I would love to play in Saturday tournaments, but by the time they start ~12pm the day is half over as far as I'm concerned. I recognize that there is a gamer crowd that is willing to devote all afternoon and evening to playing, but many of us (I believe an even larger percentage of the target player base) is unwilling to devote that time. I know that at my shop, which is just beginning to support X wing as of January, of the 8 of us that have started playing there, 3 play in Saturday tournaments regularly, 1 did it once and for the rest of us the timing is prohibitive. I'm just in a phases of life where my free time is Saturday mornings. Hunting, golf, screwing around in the tool shed, first thing on Saturday. If registration were at 7am, and first round at 8am, if sign up tomorrow. That said, I respect that others are in a different phase of life, but even when I was in college and competed in tournaments, weigh in and registration ended at 6am. First race was 6:45. Maybe it's just what I'm used to? Well constructed and respectful thoughts?

I think something like that is completely dependent on the individual. At my game shops and tournaments, there is a very even mix of younger folks that are probably in college or just out of college and those that are married with children, and everything in between. Some although playing in a competitive field like a tournament are probably really doing it just for fun, and if they win that's just extra perks along the way. It's how they want to spend their free time. Just different strokes for different folks is all. What works for one may not work for all. Not everybody will always be happy, no matter what changes are made.

I was fine with how our shop ran their store championship. Registration was 9-9:45, first round starting at 10. Played 3 rounds, lunch break for 45 minutes, finish out the last 2 Swiss rounds, cut to top 4, had a little extended break to give people time to go to the restroom, etc. It was all wrapped up by around 8:30. We had 38 participants, which is the biggest turnout for any kind of tournament ever at that store.

The only thing I disliked about this is that 75 minutes is way too much time for me. I was at the Borderlands tournament, too. Not one of my (5) games went more than 45 minutes. Granted, I had a 4-ship list, and didn't face any huge lists (2 Decimator / Phantoms), but I can't remember the last time I actually had a game go to time. So I end up spending a lot more time just standing around doing nothing at the tournaments.

I only had one match come close to going to time, but I was able to kill off the last ship just before time in my 5th Swiss round. If I didn't have 75 minutes, I may not have won, which would have kept me out of the top 4 cut. I actually like getting done before time is up. Gives a chance to stretch my legs or have a seat, look around at what others are running and observe other games. Some people do need that time, and if it were 60 you'd have a lot more going to time because people are probably going to try and play keep away. But like I said before, not everyone is going to be happy no matter what is done.

This thread will probably just keep running around in circles.

Starting at 11 am

This is your first problem.

The TO is the second.

running a tournament over 2 days is a really bad idea people cant always find the time for 2 days of gaming. If I told my wife I was playing mutable X wing SC that took 2 day to play she would change the locks on the door while I was away

Sometimes I wish I was gay. Guys like to play X-Wing and would understand. It just seems so optimal.

I say this to my best mate all the time or one of us (him) should have been born as a pretty lady.

here is a time table for our local Regionals later this year

Round timing should look like this:
Round 1: 9:30am
Round 2: 10:50am
Round 3: 12:10pm
Round 4: 1:30pm
Round 5: 2:50pm
Round 6: 4:10pm
Quarter Finals: 5:30pm
Semi Finals: 6:50pm
Finals: 8:10pm

that's how its done people

here is a time table for our local Regionals later this year

Round timing should look like this:

Round 1: 9:30am

Round 2: 10:50am

Round 3: 12:10pm

Round 4: 1:30pm

Round 5: 2:50pm

Round 6: 4:10pm

Quarter Finals: 5:30pm

Semi Finals: 6:50pm

Finals: 8:10pm

that's how its done people

Push everything back 5 minutes. You have to account for that post-time final turn.

And a lunch break of at least 30 minutes.

1 - Players know that there will be 75 minute rounds. Given a rough attendance estimate, players can calculate the tournament's approximate duration. An upper limit of one Swiss round per 90 minutes is about right. If you do the math and you're not happy with the time, THEN DON'T GO! Maybe those tournaments ARE NOT FOR YOU. Why are you complaining about something that you KNEW would happen BEFORE you went there???

2- Some players tend to think that they are forced to stay until the end of the finals. NOT SO! The reality is that most players don't make the final cut and they are free to leave after the Swiss rounds. If you plan on making the final cut, then you should KNOW that you will be there LATER than most others. Are you really going to complain that you HAVE to stay late because you're in the final cut???

3 - Stores should have a realistic understanding for how many players they can accommodate on the day. If you can't abide by FFG's guidelines for a tournament, THEN DON'T APPLY TO HOST IT! Maybe those tournaments ARE NOT FOR YOU. Alternatively, impose a player cap and give first preference to your local players. You are not obliged to make space for every interstate player when you are only running a Store Championship Tournament. Run with player numbers that makes you feel comfortable.

Seriously, why is this whole thread even a thing???