Funny enough but in my area the last 4 tournaments have been documented and won with TLT spam. 4 TLT variants. And a 2 TLT variant that used only other generics to give the two TLT room to slowly whittle everything down.
I'm starting to think TLT is just a little too good. It's forced out all the generic jousters too. No more talk about bwings or xwings with ia or khirafjdksbsk. If you have room stick TLT in there.
Let's look at the ships that can carry a TLT, before freaking out about it.
Attack Shuttle: 2 Agility, 2 Hull, 2 Shield
HWK-290: 2 Agility, 4 Hull, 1 Shield
K-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 4 Shield
VCX-100: 0 Agility, 10 Hull, 6 Shield
Y-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 3 Shield
The K-Wing and VCX-100 are easily the most annoying of the bunch, and the K-Wing especially with Miranda to either boost her attack, or regen her shields. The VCX-100 will be annoying simply from it's combined Hull and Shield points. However, Miranda with just her K-Wing and the TLT comes in at 35 points, so there's already one-third of your list, and it's still just a 2 Agility ship.
Everything else brings a low Agility to the field. Sustained and focus-fire will bring down probably at least one ship per round, or every other round if it's being done inefficiently.
If you know that you're in a TLT-heavy area, adapt accordingly. The best defense against a ship carrying a TLT is just to abuse it's 0 to 2 Agility and pummel it with offense. Every time a new element arrives that tips that game balance in one direction, there's always new ways to use existing upgrades to counter it. It just means we need to think creatively. We cannot just keep recycling old lists over and over, and complain that something new has "broken" the game. No, it's just changed the game from last year.
Omg please spend the points on your vcx to shoot at me with a tlt instead of your insane primary.. Giant pile of no agility points wripe for the taking.
You entirely missed the point. Well played.
Funny enough but in my area the last 4 tournaments have been documented and won with TLT spam. 4 TLT variants. And a 2 TLT variant that used only other generics to give the two TLT room to slowly whittle everything down.
I'm starting to think TLT is just a little too good. It's forced out all the generic jousters too. No more talk about bwings or xwings with ia or khirafjdksbsk. If you have room stick TLT in there.
On the other hand,in other metas (like mine), quad Tlt never really made it into the top half of any tournament.
Also, as I said before, you usually take generics for 2 things: blocking (case în which you still take a z-95 or A-wing) and point efficiency. If another ship was more point effective than the TLT Y-wing you wouldn't see more variety. You'd see another ship used almost exclusively.
Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!
Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.
Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.
Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.
*sigh
If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...
I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.
In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.
Guri vs. PtL ace: oh you totally pulled off an awesome maneuver there. Here, let me Boost AND Barrel Roll out of your arc. You haven't achieved anything, but nice move.
Funny enough but in my area the last 4 tournaments have been documented and won with TLT spam. 4 TLT variants. And a 2 TLT variant that used only other generics to give the two TLT room to slowly whittle everything down.
I'm starting to think TLT is just a little too good. It's forced out all the generic jousters too. No more talk about bwings or xwings with ia or khirafjdksbsk. If you have room stick TLT in there.
On the other hand,in other metas (like mine), quad Tlt never really made it into the top half of any tournament.
Also, as I said before, you usually take generics for 2 things: blocking (case în which you still take a z-95 or A-wing) and point efficiency. If another ship was more point effective than the TLT Y-wing you wouldn't see more variety. You'd see another ship used almost exclusively.
Well, the worlds level players in our area (we have a rather advanced meta) have all decided that TLT is the best jouster and a good enough blocker with unhinged. So. yeah, last 4 store champs/tournaments, all 4 TLT.
Not to say you can't beat it but dang.
Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!
Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!
Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.
Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.
Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.
*sigh
If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...
I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.
In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.
Guri vs. PtL ace: oh you totally pulled off an awesome maneuver there. Here, let me Boost AND Barrel Roll out of your arc. You haven't achieved anything, but nice move.
Guri vs PTL ace: oh, yeah, good girl, get a taste of 3-4 dice
and again
and again
and aga-...
oops, you died, sorry, dear, your 3 dice matter not.
Guri vs boosting PWT
WOOOP WOOOOP WOOOOOP!
I shoot you out or my shiny metal aft! Autothrusters? Cool, but you WILL go down eventually, I won't
TLT counter? Yes.
A viable choice in PS8+ meta? Nope.
My brother, my son and I went to a tournament last week that was won by a 4 Scum TLT squadron.
During the Swiss, my brother played against the player that won and beat him (his only loss) 100-0. My brother was playing with 4 tempests with AC and Clusters. They didn't have a chance.
My son faced another 4-TLT with his Seismic Boba Fett and Sensor Jammer+Predator+AT Guri and killed them with Guri single handedly.
I reached the final against that guy and destroyed two of his Y-Wings without much trouble, but I was really tired by then and made many mistakes and end losing (the tournament lasted almost 14 hours non-stop). I was playing with Miranda, Y-Wing, B-Wing and Z-95 and I totally believe I could have won it had I not been so tired.
The 4 TLT list is easy to fly and it taxes the player's mind less than other lists, but cannot do much more than what it does. You can overwhelm them with firepower, or exploit their range 1 dead zone, or swarm them. In come wave 8, they will be also prey to Tractor Beams, Boba Fett.
They seem to be a problem because just anyone can successfully fly a 4 TLT list. Not many complain about the overabundance of IGs, Soontirs, Dashes, Poes or Corrans because not everyone fly them well, even when there were likely more of some of those than TLTs in the whole tournament.
Really sorry to hear you lost through tiredness. Friend of mine just fell apart after the whole day of owning. Stay focused all day is by far the hardest part of a tournament.
There might be a hope for Guri in wave 8 though, in a Dengar/Guri list: SJ Guri kills TLTs and generics, Dengar kills Aces.
There might be a hope for Guri in wave 8 though, in a Dengar/Guri list: SJ Guri kills TLTs and generics, Dengar kills Aces.
Well, Manaroo opens up even Talonbane Mc'Awesome Cobra shenanigans, so maybe we'll see some S&V Shift from brobots
Guidance chips will..erm...chip the TLTcarriers real hard, that's for sure!
Guri vs PTL Ace
"Oh, I'm sorry mr soontier, am I in your way? Here, let me get that focus for you. By the way, my friends have some things they want to say to you..."
Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!
Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.
Regarding Guri: The Virago's strength is the combination of the perfect dial+action bar for blocking and access to lots of action-less force multipliers. The main problem is that blocking while catching another ship in arc is tricky, and Guri is too expensive to not contribute to the fight on multiple rounds.
you misspelled "Sensor"
My sensor jammer Kallus whisper laughs at your TLT.
Guri vs PTL ace: oh, yeah, good girl, get a taste of 3-4 dice
and again
and again
and aga-...
oops, you died, sorry, dear, your 3 dice matter not.
Guri vs boosting PWT
WOOOP WOOOOP WOOOOOP!
I shoot you out or my shiny metal aft! Autothrusters? Cool, but you WILL go down eventually, I won't
TLT counter? Yes.
A viable choice in PS8+ meta? Nope.
If you can't figure out Guri, then maybe you need to find a game closer to your level.
May I suggest Hungry Hungry Hippos?
Guri is the best knife fighter in the game she laughs at TLT's and all other Turrets she can handle any Ace and I find the times I lose with her is because I made a mistake with the rest of my squad that sets her up for failure later in the game
Give he LW, AT, Title, SJ and you will find she is a really really awesome
Auto... thrusty?
Autothrusty.
Guri vs PTL Ace
"Oh, I'm sorry mr soontier, am I in your way? Here, let me get that focus for you. By the way, my friends have some things they want to say to you..."
The rest of the list facepalms, because you paid over a third of it for a...BLOCKER
Guri vs PTL Ace
"Oh, I'm sorry mr soontier, am I in your way? Here, let me get that focus for you. By the way, my friends have some things they want to say to you..."
The rest of the list facepalms, because you paid over a third of it for a...BLOCKER
I already can do that with an a-wing or z-95.......why am I spending points on Guri again?
Guri vs PTL Ace
"Oh, I'm sorry mr soontier, am I in your way? Here, let me get that focus for you. By the way, my friends have some things they want to say to you..."
The rest of the list facepalms, because you paid over a third of it for a...BLOCKER
I already can do that with an a-wing or z-95.......why am I spending points on Guri again?
Because the Virago is better in a knifefight than an intercepter. (though not better than the Inquisitor...)
Guri vs PTL Ace
"Oh, I'm sorry mr soontier, am I in your way? Here, let me get that focus for you. By the way, my friends have some things they want to say to you..."
The rest of the list facepalms, because you paid over a third of it for a...BLOCKER
I already can do that with an a-wing or z-95.......why am I spending points on Guri again?
Because the Virago is better in a knifefight than an intercepter. (though not better than the Inquisitor...)
Except:
Loaded Guri costs more than loaded Soontir (LW, Title, SJ, AT Guri is 39, fully loaded Soontir is 35)
Guri has 4 less PS than Soontir
Late game (1v1) Soontir still wins: you either bump, case in which your free focus is useless since none of you shoots or you don't bump, case in which he can 90% of the time PtL Boost and/or Barrel Roll out of your arc. Soontir has an infinite easier time of getting shots on Guri than viceversa.
Early game if you use Guri as a blocker you're forfeiting the offense of roughly 40% of your list. That's a lot when you can do the same job with 12%.
Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!
Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!
Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.
Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.
Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.
*sigh
If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...
I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.
In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.
Guri vs. PtL ace: oh you totally pulled off an awesome maneuver there. Here, let me Boost AND Barrel Roll out of your arc. You haven't achieved anything, but nice move.
Guri vs PTL ace: oh, yeah, good girl, get a taste of 3-4 dice
and again
and again
and aga-...
oops, you died, sorry, dear, your 3 dice matter not.
Guri vs boosting PWT
WOOOP WOOOOP WOOOOOP!
I shoot you out or my shiny metal aft! Autothrusters? Cool, but you WILL go down eventually, I won't
TLT counter? Yes.
A viable choice in PS8+ meta? Nope.
As much as I hate to use such language, it's pretty much "git gud" here... it's hard to fly against high PS arc dodgers (you better be quite excellent at planning your moves, no question, but good flying plus the tendency for mid PS ships to have great abilities can make it work. Guri is most definitely in that category.
Not sure that TLT is that big of a threat. It is consistent slow damage but their are enough options out there to combat it. Autothrusters are a huge headache for TLT players because of the firing arc, high agility ships have a decent chance of escaping damage, the range 1 donut on most ships (excluding the K), the low agility of TLT ships, and the odds of rolling 3 hits on those 3 attack dice are low.
The larger low ability ships like the decimator are torn apart by them, but high agility ships like brobots do well against them.
I fly TLT's because it means I get to use my Y Wings again, but I will also add in a couple of high agility ships with them.
In practice, guri can put herself in a position where soont will bump, have no shot, and/or be at range 1 under guris guns.
Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!
Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!
Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.
Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.
Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.
*sigh
If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...
I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.
In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.
Guri vs. PtL ace: oh you totally pulled off an awesome maneuver there. Here, let me Boost AND Barrel Roll out of your arc. You haven't achieved anything, but nice move.
Guri vs PTL ace: oh, yeah, good girl, get a taste of 3-4 dice
and again
and again
and aga-...
oops, you died, sorry, dear, your 3 dice matter not.
Guri vs boosting PWT
WOOOP WOOOOP WOOOOOP!
I shoot you out or my shiny metal aft! Autothrusters? Cool, but you WILL go down eventually, I won't
TLT counter? Yes.
A viable choice in PS8+ meta? Nope.
As much as I hate to use such language, it's pretty much "git gud" here... it's hard to fly against high PS arc dodgers (you better be quite excellent at planning your moves, no question, but good flying plus the tendency for mid PS ships to have great abilities can make it work. Guri is most definitely in that category.
Its 100x this... many posts here about guri are 1v1 late game vs soontir and the like, if you got to that point ya you will probably loose but the game isn't guri vs soontir. in a full list i can often block a prime enemy and still have a shot on another ship, if i block soontir in this way he most likely dies real fast to the rest of my list while guri is till doing tons of work, sure a z95 can also block but its useless after that and goes down hard to things like TLT that could not care less about your blocker. I think people are forgeting just how predictable PTL arc dodgers are, while a ship like Guri has there entire dial to do whatever.
Early game if i am forcing your arc dodger to use 2x actions to dodge guri then hurray for me because that arc dodger with no tokens will go down to the rest of my list.
Full TLT lists go down hard in our meta, every once and a while someone tries them and they win a few games but get hammered when they come up against a ship like guri, or in my last tournament where i ran 3x TIE/FO Omegas with comms and juke and vader (vader went down hard) but the omegas shoot first and they land there hits the amount of times that lone defense die got juked was amazing, on top of that with my hole dial open to me i got in range 1 and i stayed in range one ripping the TLT's apart.
Maybe don't run pure aces and try some other ****, because honestly guys TLT is not that good. They die really fast and they put out **** for damage, but if all your points are tied up in 3, 3 hitpoint ships well you probably are going to have some issues as the TLT consistence can rip through them given enough time and you don't do enough damage to answer.
Edited by IcelomThe problem with TLT is NOT that it is overpowered, but that it negates the maneuvering part of the game (aka the fun part of the game).