I played at a tournament over the weekend and got stomped in every match by various lists made of multiple TLT ships (2-4 TLT ships in different lists). In every case, even the lists with only two TLT ships in the mix, it was the TLTs that did the majority of the work weakening my ships. In two cases I got my opponent down to only one ship but still ended up losing. Even autothrusters wasn't enough to save me.

In short, there was nothing fun about playing any of the matches other than conversations with friends ... but if that's the only good part then why play X-wing? I can talk to friends without repeatedly getting stomped by TLTs.

My point, other than whining about TLT lists repeatedly stomping me to death, is to say we need a unique modification card added to X-wing:

TLT Jammer: Automatically evade all damage by twin laser turrets (6 points) unique modification

A mod like this would let you upgrade any ship (but ONLY one ship) in your list to negate the advantage of multiple TLTs. Any TLT ships can still damage you with a primary attack, but their TLT is useless against the ship with this mod.

Six points makes it the most expensive mod in the game, but it's the same cost as a TLT.

If this unique mod was in my list on Saturday I would have still lost several matches, but I also would have won at least 2 if not 3 of my matches.

TLTs TLTs TLTs TLTs

if there's only 2 TLTs in the late game and you have a ship with thrusters, you are more than capable of mitigating or never getting shot at by abusing the range 1 doughnut hole. More than likely, you could have flown differently and more effectively against them

we do not need a modification that only works against one card and is literally useless against everything else. Find room for sensor jammers if you're so opposed

more often than not, though, it's not good to fixate on one thing (especially not the one thing that gets such a lopsided reaction out of the internet) lest you miss the real reason why you lost

There is a lot of angst out there about TLT spam in tournaments...it is a very efficient way to get consistent damage on your opponent. That being said, it is not without its weaknesses. The more you play, the better you will get at being inside the range one donut. Also, if autothrusters is not doing enough for you, try pairing it with sensor jammer. Also experiment with list building to fit different types of ships in your list. Some are better or worse against TLTs specifically.

I do not agree with an anti-TLT modification card... The tools are already out there to counter it between upgrades and ships...

First, TLT is frustrating, but not unbeatable. I had a friend who took a 4 TLT Ywing list to Worlds and finished 14th overall. Lost twice.

Once you figure out the weaknesses, you can defeat it.

Second, it already has a weakness with the range 1 hole. Adding a card that cancels the ability to attack would be a little overpowered. Heavy Laser Cannon, Vader crew, and other abilities seem Overpowered at times, but are beatable and don't need a card to cancel them.

What was your list?

Geeeezzz.....another one.

I need another upgrade: "TLT whiner jammer" - evade all whining about TLT.

Is it really that hard to build and fly a list with tlt in mind? "Ok this ship takes every tlt shot so i need to fly that way, while this one can evade tlts...." not that hard after you think a little.

And most ships with TLT (Y and K) only have 1 evade dice.

So you race at it with most of your stuff, get into range 1 and blast it away. Or use the upcoming tractor beam to drag it into range 1 AND negate that 1 evade dice so your list can wreck it.

Simples.

My brother, my son and I went to a tournament last week that was won by a 4 Scum TLT squadron.

During the Swiss, my brother played against the player that won and beat him (his only loss) 100-0. My brother was playing with 4 tempests with AC and Clusters. They didn't have a chance.

My son faced another 4-TLT with his Seismic Boba Fett and Sensor Jammer+Predator+AT Guri and killed them with Guri single handedly.

I reached the final against that guy and destroyed two of his Y-Wings without much trouble, but I was really tired by then and made many mistakes and end losing (the tournament lasted almost 14 hours non-stop). I was playing with Miranda, Y-Wing, B-Wing and Z-95 and I totally believe I could have won it had I not been so tired.

The 4 TLT list is easy to fly and it taxes the player's mind less than other lists, but cannot do much more than what it does. You can overwhelm them with firepower, or exploit their range 1 dead zone, or swarm them. In come wave 8, they will be also prey to Tractor Beams, Boba Fett.

They seem to be a problem because just anyone can successfully fly a 4 TLT list. Not many complain about the overabundance of IGs, Soontirs, Dashes, Poes or Corrans because not everyone fly them well, even when there were likely more of some of those than TLTs in the whole tournament.

Such an upgrade will not be made.

But you could do worse than start here if you want to arm yourself against tlts:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/185879-twin-laser-turrets-why-theyre-scary-and-how-you-can-fight-back/page-1

I hate TLT, a lot. I think it's a stupidly powerful card with little to no drawbacks.

But like others have said, it has a FEW weaknesses.

For one, HLC tears K Wings and Y Wings apart, I took out a y wing a turn when I played against my older brother and he used TLTs for funsies (or to just piss me off XD) with very good rolls and bad rolls from a y wing or k wing you can kill one in two HLC shots.

Focus fire from either a lot of 2 attack dice ships or a few 3 or more attack destroys them, that 1 evade dice can only do so much.

Don't be too intimidated by a k wing with TLT, because the first thing you think (I've gone through this before when playing) is "Crap! He has SLAM!"

But remember, they can't shoot after SLAM, and the k wing has no k turn.

Like I said, I think TLT is the stupidest upgrade in this game and I think it was a mistake to make it, but it's here now and we just have to deal with it.

Another thing to remember, and I have to watch myself with this, is make sure not to dislike the match just because your opponent isn't skilled enough to keep things in arc, or at least doesn't think he/she is. Think of it more as a challenge.

Geeeezzz.....another one.

I need another upgrade: "TLT whiner jammer" - evade all whining about TLT.

Is it really that hard to build and fly a list with tlt in mind? "Ok this ship takes every tlt shot so i need to fly that way, while this one can evade tlts...." not that hard after you think a little.

I think we need a counter measure for the whiny counter measure. Offering no help to a statement in the opening paragraphs. Bravo.

We dont need a jammer, upgrades arent put in on the fly, they are play tested with what the current state of ships are at hand. Advanced were rubbish, Defender rarely were used, but a few waves later everyone loves an ATC Darth and maybe an Ion/Tractor beam Defender will be seen more after Imperial Vets come to the stores. People thought the same with fat han, then AT's came out which helped negate the PWT power. Maybe you just havent flown a lot against multi TLT lists, we have no idea. Maybe you can rectify it with your friends and do some testing.

Geeeezzz.....another one.

I need another upgrade: "TLT whiner jammer" - evade all whining about TLT.

Is it really that hard to build and fly a list with tlt in mind? "Ok this ship takes every tlt shot so i need to fly that way, while this one can evade tlts...." not that hard after you think a little.

I think we need a counter measure for the whiny counter measure. Offering no help to a statement in the opening paragraphs. Bravo.

We dont need a jammer, upgrades arent put in on the fly, they are play tested with what the current state of ships are at hand. Advanced were rubbish, Defender rarely were used, but a few waves later everyone loves an ATC Darth and maybe an Ion/Tractor beam Defender will be seen more after Imperial Vets come to the stores. People thought the same with fat han, then AT's came out which helped negate the PWT power. Maybe you just havent flown a lot against multi TLT lists, we have no idea. Maybe you can rectify it with your friends and do some testing.

I helped. Really constuctive advices that keep me going vs TLT. But for the first 10 or so topics. Right now another" TLT is bad and unbalanced, blahblahblah" really gets the worst from me

Yes one player got stomped by tlt

So let's introduce a new upgrade based off this one persons experience.

It has nothing to do with your list or the way you flew it.

Nope, let's just get that new upgrade now

Better yet, recall wave 8 and let's just add a card in there

Seriously?

So you had a hard time dealing with something, so now because you had a hard time, we must introduce a new upgrade.

Wow....just wow.

Just wait it out a bit. TLTs are at their apex, or perhaps slightly on the downward trend, at the moment. Even without a "fix" issued by FFG, people are rapidly figuring out how to attack/mitigate the things (as noted above), and they are proving to be good, but not enough to get over the hump against high end players in elimination play. Why? They are the veritable definition of a one-trick pony that cannot adapt well to ships and tactics that minimize the mass fire effect. Additionally, my experience is that people who actually field 4x TLT lists are usually non-creative netlisters who play whatever's popular without the skill or nuance of those who actually develop their own lists and tactics. In other words, they are generally average to subpar players that you can outplay.

Hang in there. They are on the downward slope and help continues to come via improved tactics or material from new waves.

Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and
CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!

Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and

CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!

Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.

Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.

Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.

I think that TLT are fine. I was looking over some older battle reports, one of the first one on there is a person complaining that 3 Agi is over powered and we need to fix it. Look learn to over come, like anything in life challanges will arise and how we deal with them is what builds Char. I believe without doubt the FFG people have given TLT much thought before the card was brought out, and it is balanced not over powered.

The thing I have the worst problem with in this game is rolling 5 dice and getting 5 blanks. I think there is maybe 3 games in tornys where I rolled better then a 40% 60% hit/miss. I was messing around with a Phan, Vader with Prockets and a Defender this morning, want to take a guess how many misses I had this morning :-) I rolled 5 dice with Vader, 4 with the Phan and 4 with a range 1 Def. I did a total of 5 damage, 4 of which came from the Defender (Vader had 2 hits, Phat had 2, the Def had 4). I believe that's worse then the TLT problem.

Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.

Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.

Phantoms with ACD and Sensor Jammer are TLT kryptonite. So is any StarViper with Autothrusters and Sensor Jammer, as noted.

Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and

CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!

Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.

Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!

*sigh

If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...

What was your list?

This. If the OP ever posts in the topic again, that is.

Let's look at the ships that can carry a TLT, before freaking out about it.

Attack Shuttle: 2 Agility, 2 Hull, 2 Shield

HWK-290: 2 Agility, 4 Hull, 1 Shield
K-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 4 Shield
VCX-100: 0 Agility, 10 Hull, 6 Shield
Y-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 3 Shield

The K-Wing and VCX-100 are easily the most annoying of the bunch, and the K-Wing especially with Miranda to either boost her attack, or regen her shields. The VCX-100 will be annoying simply from it's combined Hull and Shield points. However, Miranda with just her K-Wing and the TLT comes in at 35 points, so there's already one-third of your list, and it's still just a 2 Agility ship.

Everything else brings a low Agility to the field. Sustained and focus-fire will bring down probably at least one ship per round, or every other round if it's being done inefficiently.

If you know that you're in a TLT-heavy area, adapt accordingly. The best defense against a ship carrying a TLT is just to abuse it's 0 to 2 Agility and pummel it with offense. Every time a new element arrives that tips that game balance in one direction, there's always new ways to use existing upgrades to counter it. It just means we need to think creatively. We cannot just keep recycling old lists over and over, and complain that something new has "broken" the game. No, it's just changed the game from last year.

Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and

CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!

Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.

Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!

Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.

Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.

*sigh

If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...

I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.

In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.

Let's look at the ships that can carry a TLT, before freaking out about it.

Attack Shuttle: 2 Agility, 2 Hull, 2 Shield

HWK-290: 2 Agility, 4 Hull, 1 Shield

K-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 4 Shield

VCX-100: 0 Agility, 10 Hull, 6 Shield

Y-Wing: 1 Agility, 5 Hull, 3 Shield

The K-Wing and VCX-100 are easily the most annoying of the bunch, and the K-Wing especially with Miranda to either boost her attack, or regen her shields. The VCX-100 will be annoying simply from it's combined Hull and Shield points. However, Miranda with just her K-Wing and the TLT comes in at 35 points, so there's already one-third of your list, and it's still just a 2 Agility ship.

Everything else brings a low Agility to the field. Sustained and focus-fire will bring down probably at least one ship per round, or every other round if it's being done inefficiently.

If you know that you're in a TLT-heavy area, adapt accordingly. The best defense against a ship carrying a TLT is just to abuse it's 0 to 2 Agility and pummel it with offense. Every time a new element arrives that tips that game balance in one direction, there's always new ways to use existing upgrades to counter it. It just means we need to think creatively. We cannot just keep recycling old lists over and over, and complain that something new has "broken" the game. No, it's just changed the game from last year.

Omg please spend the points on your vcx to shoot at me with a tlt instead of your insane primary.. Giant pile of no agility points wripe for the taking.

Learn to abuse R1 donut hole and

CONCENTRATE ALL FIREPOWER ON THAT TLT-PALTFORM!

Its more like a R1-Croissant my trollish friend.

Well, K-wing actually has no R1 hole, nor R1 croissaint, but R1 is where you always want to end anyways, because R3 is where TlT rules supreme, R2 is somewhere it has no downsides, and R1 is where you get your dice as well!

Sensor jammer, and the a lesser extent auto thrusters.

Guri laughs at TLT's as she feasts on there tears.

*sigh

If only the rest of the meta, the ace-pride-parade didn't laugh at her the same way...

I wrote many witty replies deleting them all, guri is very strong versus aces, she forces tokens to be spent to attempt to hurt her opening them up to the rest of your fleet, if she is ignored then her predator focus shots eat aces alive.

In my opinion guri is one of the strongest ships in the game. Because she is astarviper she gets abad wrap, just stop trying to put ptl on every ship.

She costs as a top-grade ace, gets arcdodged even by noname royal guards, and can't do anything in the ace-filled meta

Starviper is good, PS5 is bad, nothing else I can really say :C