How well balanced are the three CRBs? if I have Eote, and I want F&D, will one PC from F&D overpower a character from Eote? Will his lightsaber make my friends marauder's vibro axe be useless?

No. As long as all the characters are of equivalent XP values they should be about equal in ability. As to the lightsaber/vibro axe it really depends on the characters. I've heard some tout the vibro axe as being superior, but I think experiences will vary.

I think there is a good amount of balance, the Cortosis mod for example.

I have one player who plays a Dashade Hired Gun and another who plays a Jedi. if the two ever got into a fight I have to say that my money would be on the Hired Gun.

I see this question or flavors of it alot. It's very MMO/video game in nature. There's no battleground or arena or extra xp for damage inflicted meter in the game. If there's multiple targets to be addressed in a combat everyone needs to pitch however they can. Properly built any PC can be very effective with any number of weapons. Properly equipped opponents are able to confound melee combatants much easier than they can ranged ones.

The game mechanics really rely on GMs enforcing storyline balance as much as mechanical game balance. Yes, giving someone a Lightsaber is going to make them very potent in combat. And they're probably going to make the Vibro-axe wielder feel jealous. However, you can walk down the street with an axe and people won't care quite as much as they will seeing someone with a Lightsaber in hand. When they see you walk in the cantina with an axe, they'll ask you to put that thing away before you put somebody's eye out. When you walk in with a Lightsaber, all of the Imperial spies start texting "Tell Darth Vader I found a Jedi" and suddenly nowhere is safe when your party is being hunted at every turn.

All that said, they do recommend you hold off giving the players a true Lightsaber until "Knight level" which is ~150 XP. For starting characters, they can either use an Ancient Sword or a Training Saber to still apply their Saber skills and talents, without the overwhelming awesomeness that comes from Breach and Sunder.

How well balanced are the three CRBs? if I have Eote, and I want F&D, will one PC from F&D overpower a character from Eote? Will his lightsaber make my friends marauder's vibro axe be useless?

Just make sure to use the "Basic Lightsaber" stats in F&D, instead of the "Lightsaber" stats found in both EotE and AoR. There are significant differences in damage and weapon qualities between these printings, and using the F&D stats effectively balances a dedicated Lightsaber wielder (Breach, Base Damage, F&D Form Specializations) with a dedicated Vibro-axe wielder (Pierce, Vicious, Marauder specialization).

As the F&D book is the most recent printing, I personally consider the Basic Lightsaber stats as errata.

I've seen numerous posts from respected and more experienced members of the forum commenting that a gun bunny or axe wielder can easily outperform a lightsaber wielder in combat.

The thing to worry about is will force users make the other characters obsolete. Will you end up with Jedi's singing anything you can do I can do better? I can't honestly answer that but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to trust that characters of the same xp levels will be equal. Just remember that a lot of a characters balance depends on their focus. A combat focused character will be much more effective in combat than a socially focused character and if the game is primarily combat then the social character may feel less effective regardless of how balanced they are.

The easiest way to think about it is that Force Users have more to spend XP on, so they can do more things, but less well. They have more ways of doing things, bet that doesn't mean they are better.'

The other factor to remember is this isn't a dungeon crawler, there's generally no need for a "Tank, Healer, Damager, Rogue" party. It's entirely possible to have an entire campaign with little to no combat!

Take the Slicer from the Edge core book, first book published, we had no idea what to expect after it. And that slicer is still the best at computer usage hands down, nothing comes even close to the crazy stuff that it can pull off.

About the only thing FaD bought was that everyone can now use a Lightsaber with their dominant Characteristic. But using a Lightsaber generally means going toe to toe. And if your 5 Int Slicer/Soresu only has soak 2 and 12 WT they going down quick!

How well balanced are the three CRBs? if I have Eote, and I want F&D, will one PC from F&D overpower a character from Eote? Will his lightsaber make my friends marauder's vibro axe be useless?

Just make sure to use the "Basic Lightsaber" stats in F&D, instead of the "Lightsaber" stats found in both EotE and AoR. There are significant differences in damage and weapon qualities between these printings, and using the F&D stats effectively balances a dedicated Lightsaber wielder (Breach, Base Damage, F&D Form Specializations) with a dedicated Vibro-axe wielder (Pierce, Vicious, Marauder specialization).

As the F&D book is the most recent printing, I personally consider the Basic Lightsaber stats as errata.

Yeah, what he said.

The "store bought" Lightsaber in F&D is a basic hilt with a basic, unmodified Ilum crystal. While still a formidable weapon, it still has room to grow.

The Lightsaber listed on the weapon charts in EoE and AoR is a basic hilt with a fully modified Ilum crystal. It has +2 Vicious, +4 Damage, and -1 Crit compared to a freshly cut crystal that you'd normally find during your Jedi training. Definitely not something you should just be handing out to the party.

I've seen numerous posts from respected and more experienced members of the forum commenting that a gun bunny or axe wielder can easily outperform a lightsaber wielder in combat.

The thing to worry about is will force users make the other characters obsolete. Will you end up with Jedi's singing anything you can do I can do better? I can't honestly answer that but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to trust that characters of the same xp levels will be equal. Just remember that a lot of a characters balance depends on their focus. A combat focused character will be much more effective in combat than a socially focused character and if the game is primarily combat then the social character may feel less effective regardless of how balanced they are.

I am reminded of an argument I had with a player in a Mage game. I wasn't the GM at the time but the GM would try to encourage players to find ways of doing things without resorting to magic. It all got a bit silly and in the end to support the GM's position I rolled up a non magical character with the same number of XP's that the other players had. Because I didn't have to worry about spending points in Magic or the negative effects of magic the result was a character that was extremely skilled at using his hands and could usually think his way out of a problem. He saved the other players lives on more than one occasion.

I didn't tell the other players this though, at least not initially. It was only after some time playing with this character and when the argument flared up again that i revealed his true nature.

In my current game the non Force characters have frankly made a bigger impact on the story than the force wielding ones have. I think its a mark of a good player takes on the challenge of being normal and makes being normal awesome!

Significant drawbacks there are for a force sensitive pc.

Being hunted by the empire for being a traitor.

Being tempted by the dark side of the force.

Being branded as a criminal and having a hard time dealing with their normal contacts.

Feeling an overwhelming urge to put themselves in danger to save others.

Issues with staying emotionally stable.

Having little to no formal training.

Feeling lost or unneeded in the galaxy.

I've seen numerous posts from respected and more experienced members of the forum commenting that a gun bunny or axe wielder can easily outperform a lightsaber wielder in combat.

The thing to worry about is will force users make the other characters obsolete. Will you end up with Jedi's singing anything you can do I can do better? I can't honestly answer that but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to trust that characters of the same xp levels will be equal. Just remember that a lot of a characters balance depends on their focus. A combat focused character will be much more effective in combat than a socially focused character and if the game is primarily combat then the social character may feel less effective regardless of how balanced they are.

I am reminded of an argument I had with a player in a Mage game. I wasn't the GM at the time but the GM would try to encourage players to find ways of doing things without resorting to magic. It all got a bit silly and in the end to support the GM's position I rolled up a non magical character with the same number of XP's that the other players had. Because I didn't have to worry about spending points in Magic or the negative effects of magic the result was a character that was extremely skilled at using his hands and could usually think his way out of a problem. He saved the other players lives on more than one occasion.

I didn't tell the other players this though, at least not initially. It was only after some time playing with this character and when the argument flared up again that i revealed his true nature.

In my current game the non Force characters have frankly made a bigger impact on the story than the force wielding ones have. I think its a mark of a good player takes on the challenge of being normal and makes being normal awesome!

Isn't this the basic concept of the first few Codex Alara books?

I wouldn't know I haven't read them, perhaps I should

How well balanced are the three CRBs? if I have Eote, and I want F&D, will one PC from F&D overpower a character from Eote? Will his lightsaber make my friends marauder's vibro axe be useless?

Just make sure to use the "Basic Lightsaber" stats in F&D, instead of the "Lightsaber" stats found in both EotE and AoR. There are significant differences in damage and weapon qualities between these printings, and using the F&D stats effectively balances a dedicated Lightsaber wielder (Breach, Base Damage, F&D Form Specializations) with a dedicated Vibro-axe wielder (Pierce, Vicious, Marauder specialization).

As the F&D book is the most recent printing, I personally consider the Basic Lightsaber stats as errata.

Not necessarily errata. The lightsaber from the first two books is just a saber with an Ilum crystal and all mods, likely representing something once used by a Jedi. The basic lightsaber from F&D is the same thing, just with an Ilum crystal without mods, representing the PC's very own lightsaber that hasn't been tuned to its full potential yet.

Why is there a need for balance?

The ffg games are very hard to unbalance! That is if the game or campaign in question isn`t focusing entirely on one type of encounters and set of skills. If you base the game and challenges on your players`choices or just mix it up, you will be fine.

IMO, the fastest way to unbalance any of the FFG SWRPG games is to wind up throwing a fistful of dice. If you get to the point where you’re regularly throwing five yellow dice plus a bunch of blue boost dice, etc… then things are more likely to get unbalanced.

Why is there a need for balance?

My thinking. It sounds like game developer talk for an MMO concerning competitive PvP coding of classes.

Why is there a need for balance?

My thinking. It sounds like game developer talk for an MMO concerning competitive PvP coding of classes.

Not MMOs, but rather Magic: the Gathering, Star Craft, Counter-Strike and their respective professional leagues, the first of which predates all MMOs. All three games bred a generation of gamers who demanded balance in the games they supported since money was now an achievable end result of playing. So if the game maker did not bother with balance (or smugly declared that they knew balance better than the gamers and refused to correct anything), the gamers quit those games and spent their money on their competitors games that delivered this critical component.

So in today's market, to make a game that isn't balanced is tantamount to the game's maker declaring that they do not intend to stay in business longer than a year. And unless I am completely mistaken, Disney and FFG are, first and foremost, businesses.

To summarize: there is a need for balance in games because that is what today's paying customers expect. All other considerations are secondary.

Balance against what? The dice are unbalanced by intent towards success. The idea is for there to be more likelihood of success than equal.

Balance against what? The dice are unbalanced by intent towards success. The idea is for there to be more likelihood of success than equal.

Are you following the actual conversation, or are you just arguing for the sake of argument.

This whole conversation started in talking about one party member wielding a Lightsaber, and someone else wielding a Vibro-axe. The idea of maintaining some kind of balance, being so that players can make something other than a Jedi and still be effective in the game. If the Lightsaber is the most powerful weapon in the game, then everybody is going to want one. And anybody that doesn't have one, is basically at a disadvantage. Which means that most players will feel compelled to only make Jedi, so they aren't sitting back with their Blaster and their Vibro-axe, watching the Jedi slaying enemies left and right.

How well balanced are the three CRBs? if I have Eote, and I want F&D, will one PC from F&D overpower a character from Eote? Will his lightsaber make my friends marauder's vibro axe be useless?

The character with absolutely the most xp in my game is the worst guy to have around in a combat. The new player with only two sessions under her belt is very capable in a combat encounter.

The thing is, this isn`t the kind of system that is all about combat encounters and power balance. The only thing that should be balanced is the campaign and challenges, giving the players and characters the option of solving problems in different ways. Do they fight the gamorreans, sneak past them, make a deal with them, fool them or bribe them off? There should be an infinite number of ways to handle challenges and encounters, based on the players`imaginations and the characters`skills, bacgrounds and personalities ; there is your balance.

Balance against what? The dice are unbalanced by intent towards success. The idea is for there to be more likelihood of success than equal.

Are you following the actual conversation, or are you just arguing for the sake of argument.

This whole conversation started in talking about one party member wielding a Lightsaber, and someone else wielding a Vibro-axe. The idea of maintaining some kind of balance, being so that players can make something other than a Jedi and still be effective in the game. If the Lightsaber is the most powerful weapon in the game, then everybody is going to want one. And anybody that doesn't have one, is basically at a disadvantage. Which means that most players will feel compelled to only make Jedi, so they aren't sitting back with their Blaster and their Vibro-axe, watching the Jedi slaying enemies left and right.

Yah I am, and it's the whole premise that's absurd. It's an RPG, not a competitive video game of PvP. All weapon and class types aren't meant to be balanced, that's silly video game talk. It isn't a competition among PCs over who has the highest DPS, or it sure as hell shouldn't be.

Balance against what? The dice are unbalanced by intent towards success. The idea is for there to be more likelihood of success than equal.

Are you following the actual conversation, or are you just arguing for the sake of argument.

This whole conversation started in talking about one party member wielding a Lightsaber, and someone else wielding a Vibro-axe. The idea of maintaining some kind of balance, being so that players can make something other than a Jedi and still be effective in the game. If the Lightsaber is the most powerful weapon in the game, then everybody is going to want one. And anybody that doesn't have one, is basically at a disadvantage. Which means that most players will feel compelled to only make Jedi, so they aren't sitting back with their Blaster and their Vibro-axe, watching the Jedi slaying enemies left and right.

Yah I am, and it's the whole premise that's absurd. It's an RPG, not a competitive video game of PvP. All weapon and class types aren't meant to be balanced, that's silly video game talk. It isn't a competition among PCs over who has the highest DPS, or it sure as hell shouldn't be.

But all players want to feel useful and want to feel like they are competent at their chosen nitch. Even when PC's aren't directly competing against each other there is a tendency for players to become bored in games where they are always out shown by another player. Combat becomes tricky because people who focus on combat want a chance to show that their chosen form of combat is just as good as the next guys. Thus the Hired Gun with the vibro axe wants to make sure he is just as good at combat as the Jedi with the lightsabre. But if the Jedi is always taking down all the opponents before you get a chance you're going to start feeling left out. Thus weapons and combat abilities need to be "balanced" so that all choices are equally valid choices and it comes down to an issue of style. If the lightsabre and vibro axe do the same general damage and both are valid ways to approaching a fight both sets of players will be happy. More often than not if one is determined to be far superior the inferior choices will cause a player to lose interest.

Ultimately everyone wants to be good at what they set out to do. Balance in this sense implies that all things being equal each player will have an equal chance of shinning.

This has nothing to do with video games. I don't know why people always want to blame video games as if they suddenly made this hobby bad. Peoples taste evolve over time. The hobby changes. What was important when the hobby was created in the 70's gave way to different ideas of whats important in the 90's which is now giving way to different sets of ideas. But the basic premise behind why balance is important has more to do with how humans interact and gain fun and satisfaction and less to do with video games. You see similar issues crop up in sports when one player obviously overshadows the entire team. If that situation isn't handled carefully people will lose interest in playing said sport (lets say basketball) and participation will dwindle. Balance in this instance is more about management of how the star player interacts with the team with also giving the other members of the team ways to feel like the are overall contributing to the effort. The end goal is for the team to win, but when one person does it you can witness a drop in interest and perceived fun.

Same thing can happen at the gaming table when the Jedi is obviously the best combat character there is. Or are video games to blame for why this occurs in team sports? Though to be honest you can witness this in any team activity (of which gaming technically is).

TLDR: Video games are not the problem here, human interaction is.

There are no Jedi in these games, just force sensitive kids with a lightsaber if they are very Lucky...