Going back to the topic, I like the idea of The Inquisitor leading an swarm:

The Inquisitor (25), title (1), xx-23s (1) and VI (1).

6 Academy Ties.

Inquisitor flies in formation for the first turn, Ties then fly ahead. Uses Tracer missiles to get all the Ties target lock for a serious alpha strike. Ties then block, so that The Inquisitor can stay range 2/3 in order to make best use of his ability.

Here's the thing gang, the cards are pretty clear. Autothrusters works outside of arc and/or beyond range 2. The Inquisitor turns all attacks he makes into a range 1 attack. I'm not making up words here, just reading the cards.

"treat the range of the attack as range 1". Autothrusters clearly states "When defending if you are beyond range 2" If The Inquisitor is shooting at you, you are NEVER beyond range 2. Could FFG not rule it this way? Sure... we will have to wait till the ship actually comes out and there is a FAQ. But purely reading the cards, I find it straight forward.

Except, as I pointed out on the previous page, "beyond range 2" references the base of the ship, not some other ship's special rule.

I get where you are coming from. What I'm point out is the actual wording on The Inquisitors' card. It does not say, +1 attack die. It clearly states "treat the range of the attack as range 1". A range 1 attack, in arc, negates autothrusters.

Since we have established that Autothrusters uses a measurement independent of attack range, there is no way that The Inquisitor's ability cancels Autothrusters.

FFG could certainly tweak rules, errata cards, or reverse their ruling to make The Inquisitor negate Autothrusters. With the rules and rulings that we currently have though, he doesn't affect them.

Before I retire to bed, let me ask you...

Your Inquisitor shoots and kills my z-95 at range 3 (but range 1 because of his pilot ability). Z-95 has dead man's switch, as he explodes he does 1 damage to each ship at range 1 - can i put this damage on to your Inquisitor? The explosion happens as soon as I'm destroyed, interrupting other events... That's fine, right?

Hello all, I have been away from posting here for a really long time. Kind of interesting to see how things have changed here. Anyway here is my issue with this entire argument of "The Inquisitor ignores Auto-Thrusters:"

When one of your ships at R2 is attacked by the Inquisitor, the controlling player gets to roll and extra die as if attacking from R1. Lets start here at R2 before we ever jump to R3. Now we can all agree that in this case the Inquisitor gets to roll and additional die for a total of 3 dice due to his pilot ability and the defending player only gets to roll their standard defensive die amount (unless they have some ability that says otherwise).

The question is, what happens at R3: If the Inquisitor is attacking at R3 we all agree that he still gets to roll a total of 3 dice (2 for standard attack value and 1 for pretending to be at R1). However, does the defending player get to roll an additional defense die for being at R3? The defending ship is physically at Range 3 from the Inquisitor and, as others have said above, because of that distance the defending player should FOR SURE get an additional defensive die.

Here is the problem; if it is your view that even if the Defending Ship is physically at R3, because of the Inquisitor's pilot ability, it DOES NOT receive an extra green die then you acknowledge that physical rage is trumped by the pilot ability. So if you are admitting that the attack is happening at a virtual R1, regardless of PHYSICAL range, and you as the defending player FORFEIT your extra defensive die allowed to you by the rules then I would say you are admitting that your ship would not benefit from equipped Auto-Thrusters as you are not defending at R3 anymore.

Lets look at the Auto-Thrusters rules really quick:

When defending, if you are beyond Range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a (Evade)

result. You can equip this card only if you have the (Boost) icon.

Again, if you chose to forfeit the extra defensive die afforded to you by R3 due to the Inquisitor's ability then you are not actually defending beyond R2. Lets move on to the E-Mail from Frank:

As the current rules are stated, yes, a ship can be inside of arc and defending against a Range 3 attack (when measured inside of arc) although the ship itself is Range 2 when measured closest-point-to-closest-point. Autothrusters does not trigger in this instance. As worded, it does not use the range of the attack, but instead uses the range of the ships for the sake of this effect.

Here is the dumb, DUMB thing about the question to Frank and the answer he has given: the core rules are already pretty clear on this. When in the front arc, you measure closest point to closest point, I think that is X-Wing 101. Even if the ship is out of arc you measure from the closest point to the closest point, which should NEVER be in question (unless it is really really tight but a simple roll off should fix that). The example given to Frank doesn't make sense, the ship is at R2 when the players properly measure which means the defending ship would not get to defend at R3. In this example the ship is out of arc on the main firing arc and at R3 but if the attacking ship has a turret or an auxiliary arc then the attacking player can elect which attack to use.

Basically, I think both arguments are valid but there are certain allowances you must take into consideration.

Here is the dumb, DUMB thing about the question to Frank and the answer he has given: the core rules are already pretty clear on this. When in the front arc, you measure closest point to closest point, I think that is X-Wing 101. Even if the ship is out of arc you measure from the closest point to the closest point, which should NEVER be in question (unless it is really really tight but a simple roll off should fix that). The example given to Frank doesn't make sense, the ship is at R2 when the players properly measure which means the defending ship would not get to defend at R3. In this example the ship is out of arc on the main firing arc and at R3 but if the attacking ship has a turret or an auxiliary arc then the attacking player can elect which attack to use.

The example in Frank's response would have a range 3 attack being made. The Defender would get an extra green die (assuming it is a primary attack). However since the Defender is only range two from the Attacker (when measuring the distance from Defender to Attacker - closest point to closest point), Autothrusters would not trigger.

The attacker in that example is limited to making attacks within his primary arc. The closest point of the Defender's ship falls outside of the arc.

The range three defensive bonus is not based on the distance between the ships but is directly tied to the range of the attack being made.

RRG, pg. 16:

When in the front arc, you measure closest point to closest point, I think that is X-Wing 101.

It depends on why you are measuring.

If you are measuring to make an attack with a weapon that is restricted to your arc, you measure from the closest point of the attacker's ship that is within the arc to the closest point of the Defender's ship that is inside the arc.

If you are measuring for an ability (like target lock) or for an attack with a weapon that can fire outside of arc, you measure from closest point to closest point.

here we go

rules reference (range combat bonus), page 16

"When resolving a primary weapon attack, the attacker or defender may roll additional dice depending on the range of the attack. At range 1, the attacker rolls one additional attack die during the "roll attack dice" step. At range 3, the defender rolls one additional defense die during the '"roll defense dice" step"

note

range of the attack

Inq will cancel range bonuses

Autothrusters may not care about "Range of the attack" and so presumably will not be canceled. It depends on what they mean by "beyond range 2" (of what? presumably the attacker)

if he didn't, FFG would've just given him an additional red die at range 2-3 and spared us all the trouble

also note

When attacking with your primary weapon at Range 2-3, treat the range of the attack as Range 1.

notice that there is no "you" (ie the inquisitor) in there, implying the attack range itself is 1 and not that the inquisitor only is treating it as such

also also note, the effect is mandatory so no being nice to your opponents

His ability does seem to cancel AT.

Autothrusters doesn't care what the range of the attack is. What matters is the distance of the attacker from the defender. The Inquisitor's ability only affects the range of his attack.

The range of the attack becomes R1, thus invalidating AT. Did you read otherwise from some official source? It's been discussed before quite a lot and I don't want to go through it again, so I dismiss it if this is just your interpretation of the rules. However, if you have read it on some FAQ somewhere which I am unaware of I would like to take a look at it. Thanks.

I consider the email that Frank sent me to be a fairly official source. There's a thread in the rules forum started by me with both "Inquisitor" and "Autothrusters" in the title. I posted the email there after I received it.

I'd link it but I'm on mobile and don't have the time to dig it up.

EDIT: Looks like it was someone else that posted Frank's response in that thread. I think I got my response from him later that same day.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198248-inquisitor-and-autothrusters/?p=2001184

Thanks. It seems that the Inquisitor does not, indeed, invalidate AT.

Ugh, why don't we all just drop it until they FAQ it?

I'll be shocked if they don't FAQ this on launch day.

Yeah, they'll FAQ it for sure. But until then, people who play on Vassal need a ruling. So far, the general consensus is that the Inquisitor would cancel the effects of the AT because the attack is treated as if it was in Range one. However, since Frank has said what he has, it seems that the Inquisitor will not cancel AT.

I'll be bowing out of this conversation now as someone took umbridge to being called a stubborn troll - I have had a behaviour warning and don't wish to be banned.

Will turn here when a FAQ drops and proves the majority correct...

Going back to the topic, I like the idea of The Inquisitor leading an swarm:

The Inquisitor (25), title (1), xx-23s (1) and VI (1).

6 Academy Ties.

Inquisitor flies in formation for the first turn, Ties then fly ahead. Uses Tracer missiles to get all the Ties target lock for a serious alpha strike. Ties then block, so that The Inquisitor can stay range 2/3 in order to make best use of his ability.

The PAT is the cheap TIE Fighter companion that swarm players have been waiting for. The Interceptor did not fill this role because it was too squishy for the cost. The PAT, like the Advanced, has a missile slot and that 1 point missile keeps things cheap and the swarm deadly.

The two named pilots have amazing abilities and remain inexpensive. I too cannot wait to finally be able to table this ship!

1 pt missile?

EDIT: Oh, you mean the Tracer? I don't rate it, to be honest. I dunno....maybe in a swarm. They could get a Focus, TL, and Evade for one turn.

Thinking about it, I think I'd rather see 5 V1's with Flechette Torps, instead of Tracers. You still get the attack, you cause stress, and you get a 3 die attack with hit.

Maybe if the 2nd tier generics are 18, then I can see Tracers. The problem that I see is that one ship doesn't do anything for that round, though.

The problem that I see is that one ship doesn't do anything for that round, though.

That is definitely a potential problem. I'd still like to see how much damage that target locked swarm would put out for that particular turn. Might not work at all, but it could be fun to try.

Even if you fired at someone other than you were TL'ed, you still get a Focus and an Evade, which is good.

The problem that I see is that one ship doesn't do anything for that round, though.

That is definitely a potential problem. I'd still like to see how much damage that target locked swarm would put out for that particular turn. Might not work at all, but it could be fun to try.

Currently I'm thinking...

The Inquisitor (29)

Juke (2), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), TIE/v1 (1)

3x Black Squadron Pilot (15)

Crack Shot (1)

“Omega Leader” (26)

Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

This should be one heck of an alpha strike and continue to be effective afterwards.

I really hope the Inquisitor does negate the extra green and the autothrusters bonus. If not he's suddenly very mediocre vs. a lot of things he should be very good at taking down. I also think having to measure range 4 times a round is going to get old fast (I'll TL (measure), Attack (measure), Measure for defense bonus, Measure for thrusters).

It looks like you'll be getting 50% of what you are hoping for.

You wouldn't actually be measuring that much. You'll measure to get a target lock and you'll probably measure once during the attack unless your target is at an odd angle that puts them in your arc at three but the closest part of their ship is at two. Those are the same measurements that you make for every other ship in the game firing at a ship with Autothrusters.

I'm hoping for more but TAP is still good if not.

You would need to measure that much if that's the ruling we're going with: TL, Attack, Defense, Defense modification. They all measure different things.

I really hope the Inquisitor does negate the extra green and the autothrusters bonus. If not he's suddenly very mediocre vs. a lot of things he should be very good at taking down. I also think having to measure range 4 times a round is going to get old fast (I'll TL (measure), Attack (measure), Measure for defense bonus, Measure for thrusters).

It looks like you'll be getting 50% of what you are hoping for.

You wouldn't actually be measuring that much. You'll measure to get a target lock and you'll probably measure once during the attack unless your target is at an odd angle that puts them in your arc at three but the closest part of their ship is at two. Those are the same measurements that you make for every other ship in the game firing at a ship with Autothrusters.

I'm hoping for more but TAP is still good if not.

You would need to measure that much if that's the ruling we're going with: TL, Attack, Defense, Defense modification. They all measure different things.

It's the same amount of measuring that you'd do if you wanted to attack with a ship like Carnor Jax or Serissu around.

I really hope the Inquisitor does negate the extra green and the autothrusters bonus. If not he's suddenly very mediocre vs. a lot of things he should be very good at taking down. I also think having to measure range 4 times a round is going to get old fast (I'll TL (measure), Attack (measure), Measure for defense bonus, Measure for thrusters).

It looks like you'll be getting 50% of what you are hoping for.

You wouldn't actually be measuring that much. You'll measure to get a target lock and you'll probably measure once during the attack unless your target is at an odd angle that puts them in your arc at three but the closest part of their ship is at two. Those are the same measurements that you make for every other ship in the game firing at a ship with Autothrusters.

I'm hoping for more but TAP is still good if not.

You would need to measure that much if that's the ruling we're going with: TL, Attack, Defense, Defense modification. They all measure different things.

It's the same amount of measuring that you'd do if you wanted to attack with a ship like Carnor Jax or Serissu around.

Exactly. I'd be more inclined to say the Inquisitor's attack sets range at 1 just so we don't have to measure as much (let alone because it's a cool and flavorful and powerful ability tha kinds of needs it to be a great ACE).

We also have a TAP pilot who can now BR/Boost between attacks and an cannon that changes ranges (potentially). A clearer "measure range of attack" and that range "locks in" would be beneficial from a time stand point and cleanness of rules standpoint. We'll have

FAQ V4.1.1:

Page 10:

The Inquisitor When the Inquisitor attacks with his primary weapon, he rolls an additional attack die. If the defender is at Range 3, the defender does not roll an additional defense die. Only the range of the attack is treated as Range 1. Any abilities that reference the range of ships, such as Carnor Jax or Scum & Villainy Boba Fett, are not affected by The Inquisitor’s ability. Autothrusters now reference the specific range of the attack, and therefore never trigger against The Inquisitor’s primary weapon.

So after much name calling... The Inquisitor is now officially the Ace hunter he should be. Soontir (and other arc dodgers) will not be able to hide behind AT and The Inquisitor always rolls three dice when attacking with his primary weapon. Can't wait to finally table this ship!

Unless he loses his pilot ability from a damage card.

Unless he loses his pilot ability from a damage card.

You mean the damage card that isn't in the new damage deck?

I can't even begin to tell you how happy the latest FAQ has made me! I was already looking forward to the TAP, and now it's confirmed. The Inquisitor and I are about to become AT arc-dodging acing eating friends.

The TAP may actually make me start flying Imperial, along with the new veterans pack. Very nice.