Whisper shoots at Dengar in arc. Dengar opts to counterfire.

What triggers first...the counter fire or ACD?

I guess this would come down to initiative since they have the same trigger. Also Whisper's free focus token if she hit.

It seems logical that acd would come first, but the triggers dont outright support it, which is frustrating. Either, it will come to initiative or ffg will rule on it.

It seems logical that acd would come first, but the triggers dont outright support it, which is frustrating. Either, it will come to initiative or ffg will rule on it.

The triggers occur at the same time. That's unusual, but not unprecedented, and as thespaceinvader says, it means initiative is used to resolve the "tie".

It seems logical that acd would come first, but the triggers dont outright support it, which is frustrating. Either, it will come to initiative or ffg will rule on it.

The triggers occur at the same time. That's unusual, but not unprecedented, and as thespaceinvader says, it means initiative is used to resolve the "tie".

Agree. Initiative resolves it. The same happened to me the other day. I had Colzet with a target lock on Corran, who had a "blinded pilot" crit he had turned upside down in the combat phase. I wanted to "flip it up" again "at the beginning of the end phase" so he wouldn´t be able to shoot, and he wanted to shoot Colzet also "at the beginning of the end phase" with Corran´s special ability. He had the initiative, so he shot down Colzet.

This one is quite simple. Any time both players have something that triggers at the same time, the player with initiative goes first.

Also, any time a player has two or more things that trigger at the same time, he gets to choose the order to resolve them.

If you remember these two things, then you won't have any problems with timing conflicts in the future.

Im not arguing the fact - initiative is what the rules support and how it has to be played. I am just saying that my gut wants acd to trigger first.

Im not arguing the fact - initiative is what the rules support and how it has to be played. I am just saying that my gut wants acd to trigger first.

See, you're just confusing gamer's logic with the rules, where we all know that sometimes the two aren't even close to each other.

Im not arguing the fact - initiative is what the rules support and how it has to be played. I am just saying that my gut wants acd to trigger first.

You wouldn't happen to be a Phantom player by any chance?

Im not arguing the fact - initiative is what the rules support and how it has to be played. I am just saying that my gut wants acd to trigger first.

See, you're just confusing gamer's logic with the rules, where we all know that sometimes the two aren't even close to each other.

Next, I'll be arguing the thematic injustice of it all

Im not arguing the fact - initiative is what the rules support and how it has to be played. I am just saying that my gut wants acd to trigger first.

You wouldn't happen to be a Phantom player by any chance?

Funny enough, I am not. I am actually more likely to be on the Dengar side

If you are flying a phantom list odds are you've put in a bid for initiative, hopefully you win it so you can choose to take initiative against the Dengar player...otherwise it's going to hurt to be Whisper...

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

If you are flying a phantom list odds are you've put in a bid for initiative, hopefully you win it so you can choose to take initiative against the Dengar player...otherwise it's going to hurt to be Whisper...

If you're flying an ACD Phantom you choose to take initiative pretty much regardless, so that you shoot first and get your cloak anyway.

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

I feel what you're feeling, you feel me?

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

Dengar is the fastest gun in the wild galaxy west!

HE CAN SHOOT A Y-WING DOWN IN BETWEEN THE TLT SHOTS!

so why should ACD happen first?

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

Dengar is the fastest gun in the wild galaxy west!

HE CAN SHOOT A Y-WING DOWN IN BETWEEN THE TLT SHOTS!

so why should ACD happen first?

I think that the second TLT attack should still go off even if the attacking ship was Destroyed by Dengar after the first TLT attack.

The second shot from a TLT does go off, regardless of whether or not the ship is destroyed. There's multiple precedents in the FAQ to support it. Once an ability or weapon is triggered, it is resolved. Dengar can't stop a second TLT shot by blowing up the shooter, so he gets to wear it whether he likes it or not.

Interesting question, what if he gave a blinded pilot crit between shots?

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

Dengar is the fastest gun in the wild galaxy west!

HE CAN SHOOT A Y-WING DOWN IN BETWEEN THE TLT SHOTS!

so why should ACD happen first?

I think that the second TLT attack should still go off even if the attacking ship was Destroyed by Dengar after the first TLT attack.

Unless he TEARS THAT TLT OFF IT via old crit card

blinds a pilot via old crit

sooo

it's actually possible >:}

Interesting question, what if he gave a blinded pilot crit between shots?

TFA Blinded Pilot:

Your opportunity to attack has already passed before Dengar's counter-attack dealt the crit. The second TLT shot fires off and Blinded Pilot does not get turned over.

Original Blinded Pilot:

Since this triggers on the next attack the second TLT shot rolls 0 dice and Blinded Pilot is turned over.

I gotta say, i feel like ACD should feel like it kicks in first.

Dengar is the fastest gun in the wild galaxy west!

HE CAN SHOOT A Y-WING DOWN IN BETWEEN THE TLT SHOTS!

so why should ACD happen first?

I think that the second TLT attack should still go off even if the attacking ship was Destroyed by Dengar after the first TLT attack.

Unless he TEARS THAT TLT OFF IT via old crit card

blinds a pilot via old crit

sooo

it's actually possible >:}

I'm not 100% sure about this but I would think that even if Dengar dealt a Munitions Failure with his counter-attack that the TLT would still make it's second attack. You are already past the point that you are using the card once you get to "Perform this attack twice". The original Blinded Pilot doesn't stop the second attack, it just causes it to roll 0 dice.

The only things that could stop the second attack from happening involve making the target not legal. Baron Rudor boosting into range one between shots would stop the second shot.

EDIT: It looks like any determination about whether the defender is a legal target is made at the Declare Target step of the attack so even if Rudor was to move out of range he's still be a valid target.

Initiative. Sounds reasonable.

How about PS? Dengar+VI is an 11 while Whisper is a 9 at best.

Initiative. Sounds reasonable.

How about PS? Dengar+VI is an 11 while Whisper is a 9 at best.

Acewing is a bad thing, why support it when we ought to fight it

Initiative. Sounds reasonable.

How about PS? Dengar+VI is an 11 while Whisper is a 9 at best.

Pilot Skill doesn't come into it with Dengar's counter attack. Pilot skill determines the order in which ships move during the Activation phase and attack during the Combat phase, as well as the order in which ships are placed during setup.

Dengar might attack before Whisper during the Combat phase, but when Whisper's attack is over, her ACD and Dengar will trigger at the same time. This becomes a timing conflict between the two players (not the pilots) and the player with initiative resolves their ability first. That is the function of initiative in X-wing - to decide timing conflicts.