I'm playing with the idea of a universal tree that covers the most basic training for a Jedi.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gCEcE96x3sHefaxQvq2JV2Cy5dTnBdAAQneYmEBZdw4/edit?usp=sharing

Do you guys think this is overpowered? I would only allow it for players that were raised by the Jedi.

I'd probably say don't go for the two Force Rating talents. The specs that have that the book describes as being very, very strong connection to the Force, something an initiate or trainee is not inherently going to have.

By the way, what program did you use to make the tree?

Yeah I wasn't sure about the two force ratings, I may reorganize and make the route to 1 force rating faster and remove the second.

As for what program it was ye old fashioned Microsoft word

What tables did you use? I can use that some things I'm working on.

Its not a table under insert there are shapes and then text boxes, I just carefully placed them and connected with lines.

What do you think I should replace the Force Rating with? A Dedication?

Probably.

Yeah, replace that Force Rating in Column 2 with Dedication.

It does seem to be a bit of a "goodies grab bag" spec, but it's certainly a far cry better than the prior attempts at a "universal Jedi spec" made in the wake of FaD being released. At least once that second Force Rating talent gets replaced.

What do you guys think of a Consular's Training talent that adds Leadership and Negotiation as a class skill?

Yeah, replace that Force Rating in Column 2 with Dedication.

It does seem to be a bit of a "goodies grab bag" spec, but it's certainly a far cry better than the prior attempts at a "universal Jedi spec" made in the wake of FaD being released. At least once that second Force Rating talent gets replaced.

I agreee. 2 Force rating talents in one tree certainly graduates this Padawan to Knight by the end. Maybe that's the author's intent, but I'm always skeptical.

That was my intent originally but I think Force Rating 2 is good enough.

Here is version 2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gCEcE96x3sHefaxQvq2JV2Cy5dTnBdAAQneYmEBZdw4/edit?usp=sharing

Honestly I would use recruit as a template for it.

Jedi combat training would replace Basic Combat Training with Brawl and Lightsaber becoming career skills,

Jedi Diplomatic Training would replace Tactical Combat Training with Charm and Negotiate becoming career skills.

Jedi Meditation Training would replace Vehicle Combat Training with Discipline and Lore becoming career skills.

Parry and Defensive Training would replace Spare Clip and Creative Killer

Reflect would replace Dynamic Fire.

Force Rating would replace Enduring.

And you are done.

Just threw this together quickly last night, but as my PC's have fully awakened the Dawn Temple with an eye towards rebuilding the Order, I figure this will sooner or later come into play.

I view the Jedi Initiate as the training program for what a youngling or new arrival at the Temple would go through in the old "clans" structure of the Jedi Order. The tree is designed to teach the basic skills needed to a Jedi, while preparing them mentally (strain threshold) and physically (wound threshold) for the trials of a Jedi. It would also foster their belief in themselves, and their ability to listen to the Force before allowing them to choose a more complex path as the Padawan of a Jedi Knight or Jedi Master.

Jedi Initiate

I disagree on the 2 Force Rating being overpowered. There are countless arguments on this forum where people say that the existing specializations aren't as good at the force as Prequel Jedi because they aren't properly trained Jedi. Well, this is a tree for a "properly trained Jedi," and imo it should involve a lot of training in the force. Force powers in this game scale MUCH more slowly than skills or combat talents, which doesn't reflect the abilities shown by trained Jedi in any of the movies. An actual "trained Jedi" specialization should include equivalent force ability. Keep in mind that Obi-wan in Episode I is a padawan, and is busting out "Force Move" and "Force Enhance" all over the place.

Kyla, I really like your version of the padawan talent tree. It gives variety without being overpowered. In my opinion a force rating of two is a well trained jedi. In our game that's what my character has and she succeds more often than not.

Keep in mind that Obi-wan in Episode I is a padawan, and is busting out "Force Move" and "Force Enhance" all over the place.

You can hurl multiple ATATs to Extreme range with two Force dice.

Thus far, only the 'Force wizard' careers in Consular and Mystic have two Force upgrades, so putting that in an 'Initiate' spec seems insanely overpowered. Seriously, that makes it a 'must have' rather than an option.

I'm tempted to think that an 'Initiate' spec (and I'd love to see an official one) would look something between Recruit and Force-Sensitive Exile.

To borrow from the AoR thread about looking for a "Jedi 101" spec, it might work better to just treat Niman Disciple as such rather than try to create an entirely brand new spec that runs the risk of being too good or become a "must have" as Maelora mentioned. It works especially well if you're looking to recreate the "classically trained" Jedi that we saw prior to the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire. It may not have the bonk talents (Improved Parry or Improved Reflect), but it certainly offers a solid foundation for both lightsaber proficiency and Force usage.

Although, I do like Decorus' suggestion of using AoR's Recruit spec as a template, though the only change I might make is that Jedi Diplomatic Training provides Leadership and Negotiation rather than Charm and Negotiation. Not sure if this was his intent, but I'd also drop the listed career skills for Recruit and replace it with the Force Rating 1 benefit that the Force Exile and Force Emergent offer.

Keep in mind that Obi-wan in Episode I is a padawan, and is busting out "Force Move" and "Force Enhance" all over the place.

You can hurl multiple ATATs to Extreme range with two Force dice.

That could simply be a problem with Move, not FR, depending on your point of view...

Keep in mind that Obi-wan in Episode I is a padawan, and is busting out "Force Move" and "Force Enhance" all over the place.

You can hurl multiple ATATs to Extreme range with two Force dice.

That could simply be a problem with Move, not FR, depending on your point of view...

Possibly. That outstrips what we see in the films by miles, and at a low level (albeit requiring a good roll). That might jar with what we see in the official material or rub some people up the wrong way.

(But I'm completely uninterested in 'canon' and I scratch-built my campaign(s) around what we see in the books, and only that. It's good in some ways because I have absolutely no preconceptions on what, say, the various lightsaber styles mean in the official canon. We essentially play like it's 1986 and everything 'official' is up for grabs...)

My point was that you don't need crazy stats to emulate what we see in the movies. Yoda types don't need 20+ Force dice anymore than the Falcon needs 20+ hardpoints.

You can do some seriously heroic stuff and be a movie hero with a few hundred XP, and that suits us fine.

(I draw the line at stacking Silhouette though - I feel playing skittles with SIl 4 objects is plenty badass enough. )

I'm playing with the idea of a universal tree that covers the most basic training for a Jedi.

(snip)

I would only allow it for players that were raised by the Jedi.

That's what the Consular, Guardian and Sentinel careers are for. Just add "(Career Plural Form) also gain a rank in the Lightsaber skill, and this skill is also considered a career skill." after the very first paragraph of each career's text, and poof! You now have Old Republic Jedi.

A universal "Jedi Recruit" spec, as proposed by Decorus, would actually be more appropriate for characters that didn't start as younglings, such as, well, every single follower of The Exile.

I disagree on the 2 Force Rating being overpowered. There are countless arguments on this forum where people say that the existing specializations aren't as good at the force as Prequel Jedi because they aren't properly trained Jedi. Well, this is a tree for a "properly trained Jedi," and imo it should involve a lot of training in the force. Force powers in this game scale MUCH more slowly than skills or combat talents, which doesn't reflect the abilities shown by trained Jedi in any of the movies. An actual "trained Jedi" specialization should include equivalent force ability. Keep in mind that Obi-wan in Episode I is a padawan, and is busting out "Force Move" and "Force Enhance" all over the place.

Getting particular, but the reason why Sages and Seers have two Force Rating talents is narrative -- a strong connection to the Force. It is not necessarily a sure thing even a life-long initiate/trainee is going to have such a strong connection. What they will have is training and knowledge.

Speaking of that in connection to this, are there any talents that remove setback from Discipline checks? Because that would be the best way to illustrate a Jedi initiate, disciplined. Maybe ranks in Confidence would work as well.

Jedi Initiate

Very much like this tree, it has all the essentials. I like the inclusion of Well Travelled and Confidence, to me those are keystones of Padawan training...getting out in the world, and learning to control your fear.