I've searched the forums and only found a few mentions of this talent... mostly called a stupid useless talent

So... how does Familiar Suns differ from a normal Knowledge(Outer Rim) roll ?

Familiar suns : Once per game session, the character may spend a maneuver to make a Hard Knowledge(Outer Rim) or Knowledge(Core Worlds) check. If successful, the character is familiar with the type of planetary environment he finds himself in. He knows whether the planet is likely to be inhabited and, if so, where habitation could be found. He also knows about the unusual environmental effects, hostile predators, or sources of potential profit.

After reading the talent description a few times over, I'm inclined to think it is only used when you are on a unknown uncharted undocumented world that cannot be found anywhere in any archives so that it is impossible to know anything about it... or maybe a lost world from stories past that was forgotten from the history books.... Using that talent means that the character doesn't know which planet he's on, but he can compare it to others he's been to and predict the environment, the fauna and its resources.

Or you could just call it a second choice if the usual Knowledge roll fails...
GM : OK you guys can make a Knowledge(Outer Rim) to get info on that new planet your going to.

Rolls.... all failed...
GM : **** you guys are dumb thugs and never heard anything about this world.

Player 1: Hey can I use Familiar suns to see if I know anything from my past travels ?
GM : Go ahead!

What do you guys think ?
Can we get some brains going and find a few creative ideas where that talent could come in handy.

It would work if the group finds themselves crashed or stranded on an unknown planet to them. Perhaps too if the group is captured by enemies, bounty hunters and the like, they can identify the location they've been moved too.

A Successful Familiar Suns check should give you essentially all worthwhile knowledge about a place, while it would take a combination of multiple Successes, Advantages and Triumphs for the same effect on a standard Knowledge check.

A Knowledge check is also generally a narrative play skill check with the PC taking a length of time to research a topic, whereas Familiar Suns is obviously geared towards structured play and meant to be used on the fly off the top of the PCs head while the team is being shot down over Planet X and there is no time to Google it.

A Knowledge check is also generally a narrative play skill check with the PC taking a length of time to research a topic, whereas Familiar Suns is obviously geared towards structured play and meant to be used on the fly off the top of the PCs head while the team is being shot down over Planet X and there is no time to Google it.

Because of the maneuver cost.... but how could it be used in structured play ?

Maybe in a chase scene, the characters knowing they are going to X planet pass in front of a few crates, with only a few seconds to think and pull which one to make the most profit ?

Other ideas for structured play ?

They're in space combat and have been shot down over Planet X and are going in and have to rely on Joe Explorer to give them the details on where they are crashing, or where they shouldn't crash on Planet X.

I see it as 'Familiar Suns' giving personal, detailed knowledge, and use of 'Core Worlds/Outer Rim' being general knowledge. I give lots of blue dice for rolls following 'Familiar Suns' - emphasis is on 'familiar', right?

It's the difference between: "Right, we're going to Kahje, eh? I know that planet is inhabited by a floating jellyfish species who place a big emphasis on protocol and politeness. Looks like we'll have to be on our best behaviour..."

and

"Oh, it's been a while since I was on Kahje last. Luckily when I was last there I was at a wedding between the leaders of two Hanar clans. It was touch and go, there was a lapse of etiquette that almost led to a clan war! But I managed to navigate it okay in the end. Even learned a few 'soul names' while I was at it. Stick with me kid, I'll get us through the tricky bits."

(and yeah, I otherwise think it's a pretty weak Talent...)

Lets face it, this is a talent designed far space exploration. If you're not involved in the sort of game where you might be running off to an unknown planet, then this talent is going to have limited utility. That said, it that is your kind of game, then this is the talent for you. Well, it's at least A talent for you. YMMV.

Lets face it, this is a talent designed far space exploration. If you're not involved in the sort of game where you might be running off to an unknown planet, then this talent is going to have limited utility. That said, it that is your kind of game, then this is the talent for you. Well, it's at least A talent for you. YMMV.

Yes, but the TC (and myself) wanted to know what makes it different from any other Outer Rim / Core World check?

On the face of it, it seems like it only lets you do what a standard check would let you do.

I read it that the Scout or Commodore has travelled to lots of places personally, so a successful check essentially becomes part of the well-travelled character's personal background.

A standard check is supposed to involve time and research. The Knowledge skills section in the book explains the various levels of information you receive from a Knowledge check based on the #s of S,A, and Ts you roll. This Talent gives you the whole enchilada of information for a single success and essentially off the top of your head while under fire. You aren't supposed to get the same level of information from a single success using a standard Knowledge check and it should take time and research.

So... how does Familiar Suns differ from a normal Knowledge(Outer Rim) roll ?

Google search on computer = normal Knowledge roll

Google Maps from memory = Familiar Suns

So... how does Familiar Suns differ from a normal Knowledge(Outer Rim) roll ?

Google search on computer = normal Knowledge roll

Google Maps from memory = Familiar Suns

See I don't necessarily agree with this. I've been reading a lot of the modular adventures and often knowledge checks are asked for mid conversation or in remote locations like the middle of a jungle. Granted a player who has a datapad might whip that out and use it, I'd guess for a boost dice, but honestly it seems like the knowledge check is meant to be an internal test of the PC knowledge of said subject.

Rare is the occasion that a PC is asked a knowledge check and it is implied they are in a situation to go research it.

You could also use this for a situation where they have no/limited idea of where they are and are looking for resources, places to hide, just about anything.

"you know... this place reminds me of planet X. Same atmosphere, same geography... looking at that mountain range, I'd bet that we'll find water and a good place to shelter a few clicks thataway..."

and then read the dice to see how right or wrong your trusty explorer really is...

Google search on computer = normal Knowledge roll

Google Maps from memory = Familiar Suns

In our previous group, I gave my players a Jedi Holocron... since they weren't all Force Users and didn't want to select 2 skills has career skills like mentioned in the CRB, I decided that the Holocron contained vast knowledge of the galaxy and would upgrade a Knowledge check done when using the Holocron. I would probably rule the same way or give a boost die if my players tried a Knowledge check while searching the Holonet or local university for info.

I agree with Unicornpuncher that knowledge checks represent internalized info on the subject...

I think the best answer was 2P51... you get all the info for 1 success... if using a standard Knowledge check, you'd need a few Success, Advantages and maybe a Triumph for all the same knowledge.

It's more a "you personally know the place" instead of "you heard about the place".

I just had an Idea to use this talent... would you allow it if a player tried it ?!?

The characters get cornered by a pirate or other mischievious evil bad guy.... the big bad guy threatens the character and hope they will submit. One of the players says "Hey, I'll use Familiar Suns to see if I can recognize his accents and maneurism... maybe I once visited his world". The PC rolls and succeeds. The GM says "the guy is from Ord Mantell, you see some skin decoloration typical of a low level worker at the docks working with all those chemicals, plus he's got the accent from New Garnik"... and now the PC turn to the NPC and says "hey! I know you, we met at the docks in New Garnik, don't you remember.... .... " and thus saves the day

What do you think ?

In the same vein... another idea...

The players are trying to find where the pirates hid their stash... looking around for clues at a local space station not far... The players see a pirate ship land and a group of thugs run out carrying a badly wounded pirate to the local med bay. One player asks to roll a Familiar Suns to see if he can identify the beast that did that wound... the PC rolls and succeeds. The GM says "Those are 2 deep claw marks typical of Mantellian Flutterplumes from Ord Mantell ; and those orange mud stains and the vine lashes on his pants and boosts, he was probably near Lake Oko in the Avilatan region." ... the PC turns to his buddies and says "I know where we are going".

What do you think ?

I always interpreted it as being a check to see how familiar you are with a place

I see knowledge check information as what something like an encyclopedia or history book would say about the planet. This is planet X, it is this large, has this(these) kind(s) of environment(s), this many people, these kinds of critters, this many cities, a Y hour long day, a Z day long year, major event A occurred here B years ago, etc.

I see Familiar Suns information as a more personal nature. Either the player has been here before, or they heard about it from someone else who had been there.

Take a bunch of sailors at a shore duty, who all did sea tours in different parts of the world. The sailor who did Atlantic deployments will have different stories about different places than the one who did Indian Ocean deployments, the one who did Pacific deployments, and the sailor who did Mediterranean deployments. The junior sailor who has never been on a deployment will soak up all these stories. So take the young sailor, who heard a bunch of stuff about all these places. They they go to their first sea tour. They find out where the first place they're pulling into is. So they go online, and research it. This would be the knowledge check. A lot of statistical information, current politics, current economy, maybe some major movers and shakers and what's what. Then they get there, and they're walking around, being a tourist, and maybe they get lost, or get involved in a weird cultural custom, or whatever. Now you get a Familiar Suns check, which could let them figure out stuff based on what's currently presented to them and what they heard from one of the stories told to them before.

Really, I see Familiar Suns as a way to insert all the, "So I heard about the X on planet Y from spacer Z, and we should probably avoid doing A or B, and focus on doing C and even D," statements that some characters could have, without forcing the player to have a character background index for all the stories they've ever been told or all the places they've ever been to.

Google search on computer = normal Knowledge roll

Google Maps from memory = Familiar Suns

In our previous group, I gave my players a Jedi Holocron... since they weren't all Force Users and didn't want to select 2 skills has career skills like mentioned in the CRB, I decided that the Holocron contained vast knowledge of the galaxy and would upgrade a Knowledge check done when using the Holocron. I would probably rule the same way or give a boost die if my players tried a Knowledge check while searching the Holonet or local university for info.

I agree with Unicornpuncher that knowledge checks represent internalized info on the subject...

I think the best answer was 2P51... you get all the info for 1 success... if using a standard Knowledge check, you'd need a few Success, Advantages and maybe a Triumph for all the same knowledge.

It's more a "you personally know the place" instead of "you heard about the place".

I just had an Idea to use this talent... would you allow it if a player tried it ?!?

The characters get cornered by a pirate or other mischievious evil bad guy.... the big bad guy threatens the character and hope they will submit. One of the players says "Hey, I'll use Familiar Suns to see if I can recognize his accents and maneurism... maybe I once visited his world". The PC rolls and succeeds. The GM says "the guy is from Ord Mantell, you see some skill decoloration typical of a low level worker at the docks working with all those chemicals, plus he's got the accent from New Garnik"... and now the PC turn to the NPC and says "hey! I know you, we met at the docks in New Garnik, don't you remember.... .... " and thus saves the day

What do you think ?

In the same vein... another idea...

The players are trying to find where the pirates hid their stash... looking around for clues at a local space station not far... The players see a pirate ship land and a group of thugs run out carrying a badly wounded pirate to the local med bay. One player asks to roll a Familiar Suns to see if he can identify the beast that did that wound... the PC rolls and succeeds. The GM says "Those are 2 deep claw marks typical of Mantellian Flutterplumes from Ord Mantell ; and those orange mud stains and the vine lashes on his pants and boosts, he was probably near Lake Oko in the Avilatan region." ... the PC turns to his buddies and says "I know where we are going".

What do you think ?

First: Maybe? Seems heavily dependent on the GM being able to provide some good details, and still feels like a stretch to me. Clearly needs a Charm/Deception check to top off the encounter, but considering how useless the talent seems to be I'd probably let it ride in that scenario.

Second: Identifying claw marks is Xenology/Survival. The case could be made for some other skills, but it really doesn't fit for me. My problem with using it this way is that it is basically giving you the Sudden Discovery talent without having to spend the Destiny Points. Seems too powerful suddenly know exactly where this guy has been based on some dirt on his boots.