I have a feeling Omega Leader and The Inquisitor will be competing for "Best Vessory Wingman".

Just use both...

I'm thinking of Omega Leader, Inquisitor and Vessery with TIE/D, Tractor Beam and VI. All are PS8, so I can shoot with Vessery first, capitalizing on his ablity and making the most use of Tractor Beam.

That's just 94 points, though. Add two Hull Upgrades? Shield and two Mk II? Alternatively, replace the 'quisitor with Echo with FCS.

so I don't expect it will take players too long to be happy flying PS 6 Defenders.

I'm already perfectly happy with PS 6 Interceptors with Outmaneuver, so PS 6 Defenders might be great. Especially with TIE/D and Ion Cannon.

I've got my fingers crossed for 33 point glaives for triple glaive/x7/crackshot/mk2 engine. If Ryad is 34 she can fit in there too

Vessery + TIE/D + Tractor Beam + Ruthlessness is an absurd glass cannon

Maybe you should rethink your definition of "glass canon". We're talking about a 3AGI, 6HP ship.

Maybe you should rethink what the definition of a glass cannon is.

A ship's position on the scale of "Glass Cannon" vs "Tank" is determined by the ratio of the ship's expected damage output to its expected durability.

For example:

• If I have 2 infantry, they have a neutral attack:defense ratio.
• If I have 2 infantry in a bunker then they have defensive fortification bonuses so would be considered "tanks".
• If I have a nuclear launch silo defended by 4 infantry, it's a glass cannon. It has twice the durability of just 2 infantry, but the nuke has enough power to wipe out the entire opposing squad.

Vessery is the nuclear launch silo and is a glass cannon.

Vessery + TIE/D + Tractor Beam + Ruthlessness is an absurd glass cannon

Maybe you should rethink your definition of "glass canon". We're talking about a 3AGI, 6HP ship.

Maybe you should rethink what the definition of a glass cannon is.

A ship's position on the scale of "Glass Cannon" vs "Tank" is determined by the ratio of the ship's expected damage output to its expected durability.

For example:

• If I have 2 infantry, they have a neutral attack:defense ratio.
• If I have 2 infantry in a bunker then they have defensive fortification bonuses so would be considered "tanks".
• If I have a nuclear launch silo defended by 4 infantry, it's a glass cannon. It has twice the durability of just 2 infantry, but the nuke has enough power to wipe out the entire opposing squad.

Vessery is the nuclear launch silo and is a glass cannon.

Those 4 infantry guard the saddest little nuclear warhead ever.

Two words: Space Superiority Fighter. Wait...

Anyways, it's about time that description was apt. I'm pretty excited about both titles. I think the D title will be a big boost to ordnance lists, and the X7 title will help Rex find a place in more squads. I came to the Defender looking for a robust wingmate to compliment my Punisher build, and the reveal of Vets really got me thinking.

I get Juggs' example and subsequent definition of a glass cannon, but when looking at the faction as a whole I don't agree. It's the only small base ship the Imps have that has more than two shields. That's pretty much what goes for robust in the Emperor's Navy. I've used Defenders as my primary YT hunter because of its toughness. Obviously, when the entire enemy squad is gunning for one ship it won't last no matter how tough it is. That said, I think the Defender has much more potential, both offensive and defensive, to preform its intended role than more traditional glass cannons.

As I learned last weekend, when your agility dice fail, then yes, it's a bit of a glass cannon.

Of course, from what I'm getting from MajorJuggler, Vessery is only a glass cannon because his offensive output is so insane.

I get Juggs' example and subsequent definition of a glass cannon, but when looking at the faction as a whole I don't agree. It's the only small base ship the Imps have that has more than two shields. That's pretty much what goes for robust in the Emperor's Navy.

If you're looking at the x7, then the generics are actually tanks:

~1.7x Z-95s of attack : ~2.7x Z-95s of durability --> ~0.64:1

Likewise even Vessery with x7+Juke is basically neutral:

~2.6x Z-95s of attack : ~2.7x Z-95s of durability --> ~0.95:1

Low overall hit points doesn't mean that you're automatically a glass cannon. Soontir Fel is a tank despite having "only" 3 hull, because his upgrades are almost purely defensive in nature. 35 point Fel going Full Turtle is actually more durable than even x7 Defenders.

That said, I think the Defender has much more potential, both offensive and defensive, to preform its intended role than more traditional glass cannons.

I understand and agree with MJ's definition of Glass Cannon, but I think this is an important aspect as well. It's much more resistant (in either x7 or D form) to a lot of very effective counters to imperial glass cannons. Autoblasters, Ten Numb, Vader Crew, and any other auto-damage mechanism counter interceptors and phantoms pretty hard. Defenders would rather not take the damage, of course, but they can handle it. It lets you commit to a very damaging attack, knowing that if the worst happens, your ship will still be flying at the end of the turn.

Unlike Fel, the Defender doesn't crumble once the dice fail. Which is nice. And the free Evades from the X7 title is going to really push them up.

Unlike Fel, the Defender doesn't crumble once the dice fail. Which is nice. And the free Evades from the X7 title is going to really push them up.

with the titles coming out I'd like to think of the Defenders as Proto Bro-Bots. with the X7 its a IG-C with Adv Sensors and with /D its IG-B+ with the benefit of making two attacks regardless of hit status of first attack,

granted it cannot take AT, is a small base, and has 2 effective less health, but for the Price of a BASE IG you can run a Glaive ion cannon/D or Brath/x7 and still have 2/3 your list to make stuff with.

Unlike Fel, the Defender doesn't crumble once the dice fail. Which is nice. And the free Evades from the X7 title is going to really push them up.

Definitely. In my Big Book of Defender Tactics, the chapter on Soontir Fel urges the Defender pilot to point right at him. The Defender can handle bad dice, Fel just cannot. In my experience, it usually results in the Fel player not taking the joust, which takes him out of the fight for a turn or two.

Unlike Fel, the Defender doesn't crumble once the dice fail. Which is nice. And the free Evades from the X7 title is going to really push them up.

with the titles coming out I'd like to think of the Defenders as Proto Bro-Bots. with the X7 its a IG-C with Adv Sensors and with /D its IG-B+ with the benefit of making two attacks regardless of hit status of first attack,

granted it cannot take AT, is a small base, and has 2 effective less health, but for the Price of a BASE IG you can run a Glaive ion cannon/D or Brath/x7 and still have 2/3 your list to make stuff with.

I encourage you not to think of them too much like Brobots. The flight characteristics are really massively different because of dial and base size differences. They both have good straight line speed (Defenders faster without actions, Bots faster with actions), but the the Defender has a better selection of banks and turns, and its 1-banks compared to the large-based Bot 1-banks are totally different moves. Throw in the Barrel Roll, and the whole package means that Defenders rather like asteroid fields, while Bots tend to avoid them when possible.

Unlike Fel, the Defender doesn't crumble once the dice fail. Which is nice. And the free Evades from the X7 title is going to really push them up.

with the titles coming out I'd like to think of the Defenders as Proto Bro-Bots. with the X7 its a IG-C with Adv Sensors and with /D its IG-B+ with the benefit of making two attacks regardless of hit status of first attack,

granted it cannot take AT, is a small base, and has 2 effective less health, but for the Price of a BASE IG you can run a Glaive ion cannon/D or Brath/x7 and still have 2/3 your list to make stuff with.

I encourage you not to think of them too much like Brobots. The flight characteristics are really massively different because of dial and base size differences. They both have good straight line speed (Defenders faster without actions, Bots faster with actions), but the the Defender has a better selection of banks and turns, and its 1-banks compared to the large-based Bot 1-banks are totally different moves. Throw in the Barrel Roll, and the whole package means that Defenders rather like asteroid fields, while Bots tend to avoid them when possible.

i completely understand, i used to fly Decimators (only ever flown imps but will change with Rage Release) and i know how that base/asteroid field was mayhem. i'd like to say ive gotten pretty good at judging small bases movements. and i tenatively call them proto-bro-bots because A) never flown brobots and B) never flown a defender but looking at the stats, and after throwing MK2 Engines on them their dials other than Red placement is pretty similar, save for the K turns.

and because the /D /X7 titles 'lightly' emulate the effects of two of the brobots. i'm most assuredly aware they fly like different beasts, but these things lead me to believe they would be akin to one another.

True, the on-paper capabilities of the titles are similar to B and C.

Anyway, here's my x7 list:

Rex, Juke, x7 = 37

Maarek, Juke, x7 = 36 (probably)

Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay = 26

99 points

You really don't want to spend focus to try and damage these ships, but you have a really hard time damaging them if you don't spend focus.

I get Juggs' example and subsequent definition of a glass cannon, but when looking at the faction as a whole I don't agree. It's the only small base ship the Imps have that has more than two shields. That's pretty much what goes for robust in the Emperor's Navy.

If you're looking at the x7, then the generics are actually tanks:

~1.7x Z-95s of attack : ~2.7x Z-95s of durability --> ~0.64:1

Likewise even Vessery with x7+Juke is basically neutral:

~2.6x Z-95s of attack : ~2.7x Z-95s of durability --> ~0.95:1

Low overall hit points doesn't mean that you're automatically a glass cannon. Soontir Fel is a tank despite having "only" 3 hull, because his upgrades are almost purely defensive in nature. 35 point Fel going Full Turtle is actually more durable than even x7 Defenders.

aye

tankiness is a measure of guaranteed damage cancellation

which is why I have to scratch my head at people who find Ys and Bs durable. They dont die to **** dice, but they drop like rocks.

Redline, for example, hits like a cannon but is made of easily shattered glass

True, the on-paper capabilities of the titles are similar to B and C.

Anyway, here's my x7 list:

Rex, Juke, x7 = 37

Maarek, Juke, x7 = 36 (probably)

Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay = 26

99 points

You really don't want to spend focus to try and damage these ships, but you have a really hard time damaging them if you don't spend focus.

list i'll be running ( using the same assumption that Maarek is 36)

Rex Juke /x7

Maarek VI Tractor /D Mk2

Scimitar TItle Fleet officer Rebel captive

comes to 98

you know I am wondering if scimitar with the bomber shuttle title and LRS and weapons engineer might be a very good investment for Vessary? Would give him options. Not sure what else I would but with him.

you know I am wondering if scimitar with the bomber shuttle title and LRS and weapons engineer might be a very good investment for Vessary? Would give him options. Not sure what else I would but with him.

cant title and LRS, title VOIDS all requirements needed to attach LRS.

I think the best thing about defenders - and vessery in particular is the near stress immunity that comes with them.

Vessery + X7 with someone giving locks, can get 2 actions while stressed- can still perform k-turns.
X7 defenders will likely have the evade, and can still k-turn.

These are ships that fly in the face of stresshog, or tactician tlt, or rebel captive etc. They are one of the few ships in the game that can stay stressed for multiple turns and not be too adversely affected.

Vessery + TIE/D + Tractor Beam + Ruthlessness is an absurd glass cannon

Maybe you should rethink your definition of "glass canon". We're talking about a 3AGI, 6HP ship.

Maybe you should rethink what the definition of a glass cannon is.

A ship's position on the scale of "Glass Cannon" vs "Tank" is determined by the ratio of the ship's expected damage output to its expected durability.

I think the problem is that you're taking a term with an understood and accepted definition and trying to change it. People understand a Glass Cannon as something with high offense and low defense. As much as Vessery's Ruthless Tractor will draw fire, it still has high Agility and 6 combined hull/shields, which put it top tier for small-base craft just based on raw stats. A glass cannon is something that would fall apart after one or two hits. A Defender is still going to require several ships to target it, potentially over several rounds.

A better term would be to call it a Bullet Magnet.

True, the on-paper capabilities of the titles are similar to B and C.

Anyway, here's my x7 list:

Rex, Juke, x7 = 37

Maarek, Juke, x7 = 36 (probably)

Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay = 26

99 points

You really don't want to spend focus to try and damage these ships, but you have a really hard time damaging them if you don't spend focus.

This list looks like fun. I'll probably be running something like it, but I really want to see Ryad's ability. My guess is she'll be 34 points. Hopefully her pilot ability is good.

Rexler + x7 + Juke + Mk. II = 38

Ryad + x7 + Juke + Mk. II = 35

Omega Leader + Juke + Comm Relay = 26

Makes room for the Mk. II engines that way. Of course I can see busting OL down to something a tad cheaper, and putting Maarek in for Ryad with x7 + Calculation + Mk. II. Maybe an OGP with FCS and Tactician. Something to give a fun anchor for the little sharks to swirl around...

A better term would be to call it a Bullet Magnet.

Bull's-eye.

How is the T-65 supposed to compete against a Jouster so terrifying as a Defender? The lower jousting value means the T-65 is going to have to outfly the Defender with a worse dial, no barrel-roll and lower Pilot Skill. Rebel Veterans can't come soon enough!