So while engaging an Inquisitor one of my PC players used their ability of Bad Motivator ( Bad Motivator allows a Mechanic to select a device (subject to GM's approval) to fail by either deliberate sabotage or because he noticed it "was about to fail anyway," ) I told him that he couldn't destroy the crystal but made his lightsaber hilt malfunction. It was a neat play but one that almost derailed the whole cinematic idea I had for it. What are your thoughts about Bad Motivator and lightsabers?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202588-lets-talk-bad-motivator/

My advice is to establish, between GM and player, way before the talent ever comes into play, what it should be capable of. Every person and group is going to have a different thought on the matter, so I would utilize the "subject to GM approval" and just come to an agreement with the player(s) about its limits instead of deliberate each use.

I'd just be clear with the PC sometimes I'll say yes, sometimes I'll say no, and that's the end of the conversation at that point. My guys are fine with that and accept that it is the GMs job to adjudicate rules.

This case specifically as I said in the Bad Motivator thread, I don't think fail needs to mean break or destroy. To me depending on circumstances, like in this case, it's a malfunction that requires the Nemesis to burn an Action to get the weapon back into service. In other cases it might mean, the hyperdrive on the Star Destroyer goes into reset and can't be used for 15 minutes.

I would require some actual level of interaction or observation have to occur or occurred, just like the rule says. The item fails because of their direct interaction or something they noticed about it and the fact it was going to fail. If they aren't in the engine room, and/or didn't see the hyperdrive, they can't make it fail.

In the case of the Lightsaber if a GM says you can't use it because you didn't see the item prior to the villain taking it out and whipping it to and fro so there is no way to observe in detail how it is functioning, and/or you have no way to interact with it, I think that's acceptable.

With the inquisitors I built, their lightsabers are not the most deadly thing about them. Most of the time, that would be the Move Force power.

If the inquisitor did rely on their lightsaber as their strength. They would hopefully be smart enough to retreat, regroup , or call for reinforcements.

So while engaging an Inquisitor one of my PC players used their ability of Bad Motivator ( Bad Motivator allows a Mechanic to select a device (subject to GM's approval) to fail by either deliberate sabotage or because he noticed it "was about to fail anyway," ) I told him that he couldn't destroy the crystal but made his lightsaber hilt malfunction. It was a neat play but one that almost derailed the whole cinematic idea I had for it. What are your thoughts about Bad Motivator and lightsabers?

If it seems odd that a powerful Force user would build a faulty lightsaber, maybe the narrative reason was that an apprentice, or a competitive/vengeful colleague, sabotaged the lightsaber. And now you have an interesting plot line to follow!

Funny, we JUST got done arguing about discussing thoroughly this very thing a few days ago!

If I were GMing, would I break the crystal? No, probably not (you would need some SERIOUS triumphs to do that). But something that could be easily repaired that shuts down the saber for the short term? Absolutely. When we got done with the fight where I did this, the saber was easily repairable with just a little bit of time - longer than what was available in combat, but super easy if the character has some basic tools, a flat surface to work and five minutes.

With the inquisitors I built, their lightsabers are not the most deadly thing about them. Most of the time, that would be the Move Force power.

That's the thing that I think Killjoy was unable to grasp - that yeah, it's powerful, but there's no reason that it would completely debilitating a bad guy. Sure the saber just failed, but he'll still have the Force to throw giant rocks at his foes. Or if it was going down in a Sith Tomb (like our fight did), there's no reason he can't go scrambling from coffin to coffin trying to find an ancient Sith Sword or something. Just don't take the cheap route and go "oh, look - I had another saber in my pocket!"

That's the thing that I think Killjoy was unable to grasp - that yeah, it's powerful, but there's no reason that it would completely debilitating a bad guy. Sure the saber just failed, but he'll still have the Force to throw giant rocks at his foes. Or if it was going down in a Sith Tomb (like our fight did), there's no reason he can't go scrambling from coffin to coffin trying to find an ancient Sith Sword or something. Just don't take the cheap route and go "oh, look - I had another saber in my pocket!"

Are you a happy Sith or is that a Lightsaber in your pocket?

Or, better yet, the simply uses the Force to slam the heroes against the wall and runs away, Syndrome-style.

His shiny toy got broken, and now he's going to retreat so as to plan & exact a better revenge on the heroes. Bind as an action, Move as a maneuver (The Force Is My Ally) to pull the macguffin into his grasp, and Force leap (Enhance) as another maneuver to run away.

Can't wait for Incredibles 2....

Lightsabers are not able to be sundered according to RAW, so wouldn't that mean this talent would not apply to that particular weapon? I would take it as the lightsaber as a whole (crystal, hilt, modifications) is unable to be intentionally damaged in combat.

Lightsabers are not able to be sundered according to RAW, so wouldn't that mean this talent would not apply to that particular weapon? I would take it as the lightsaber as a whole (crystal, hilt, modifications) is unable to be intentionally damaged in combat.

Bad Motivator talent doesn't "damage" or "break" or "sunder" an item. It makes it fail . It's really a different animal. A GM would be well within his rights to disallow it from affecting a lightsaber, but personally I wouldn't worry about it unless it became a standard tactic of the players

Unless the the PC had some means to interact with the lightsaber before the encounter, I'd probably disallow Bad Motivator to just shut the thing down.

Granted, this is based upon the notion that if I have an adversary that shows up with a full-blown lightsaber, then it's a big deal and that person is Bad Mutha-F'n News. Even with my Force and Destiny campaigns, I don't have Inquisitors crawling out of the woodwork, and in fact the only two individuals to wield a lightsaber in my current FaD campaign are one of the PCs and a guest NPC that was on the PCs side.

I suspect that when I do have a proper Inquisitor complete with a red-bladed lightsaber show up in that campaign, the PCs will collectively soil themselves. They've already got an ISB Agent and a Stormtrooper Commander on their butts, so an Inquisitor may only be a matter of time...

You can just have the inquisitor show up dual wielding and if bad motivator targets 1 lightsaber i'd have the power cell over heat/explode but the inquisitor gets to feel it start to get hot and throws it like a frag grenade.

Do that once and I doubt that the pc's would ever do it again (and it prevents them from getting their hands on a busted lightsaber to fix).

One of my PCS does have bad motivator and I correctly expected him to use it when a different PC had a quickdraw show down with the NPC gunslinger, so I gave her 2 pistols one better than the other, the PC with bad motivator used it on the better pistol (an equalizer from suns of fortune) so his buddy took less damage when the gunslinger out drew him (because the gunslinger had 2 ranks of rapid reaction)

You can just have the inquisitor show up dual wielding and if bad motivator targets 1 lightsaber i'd have the power cell over heat/explode but the inquisitor gets to feel it start to get hot and throws it like a frag grenade.

Ooh, good idea. But no, with that mega-powercell, that’s much more like a Thermal Detonator.

Do that once and I doubt that the pc's would ever do it again (and it prevents them from getting their hands on a busted lightsaber to fix).

Yup.

One of my PCS does have bad motivator and I correctly expected him to use it when a different PC had a quickdraw show down with the NPC gunslinger, so I gave her 2 pistols one better than the other, the PC with bad motivator used it on the better pistol (an equalizer from suns of fortune) so his buddy took less damage when the gunslinger out drew him (because the gunslinger had 2 ranks of rapid reaction)

For me, that would be a totally valid use of the talent. It has a significant effect on the combat, but it’s not a single one-shot “I win, you lose” application.

You can just have the inquisitor show up dual wielding and if bad motivator targets 1 lightsaber i'd have the power cell over heat/explode but the inquisitor gets to feel it start to get hot and throws it like a frag grenade.

Ooh, good idea. But no, with that mega-powercell, that’s much more like a Thermal Detonator.

Do that once and I doubt that the pc's would ever do it again (and it prevents them from getting their hands on a busted lightsaber to fix).

Yup.

One of my PCS does have bad motivator and I correctly expected him to use it when a different PC had a quickdraw show down with the NPC gunslinger, so I gave her 2 pistols one better than the other, the PC with bad motivator used it on the better pistol (an equalizer from suns of fortune) so his buddy took less damage when the gunslinger out drew him (because the gunslinger had 2 ranks of rapid reaction)

For me, that would be a totally valid use of the talent. It has a significant effect on the combat, but it’s not a single one-shot “I win, you lose” application.

Point is if you the GM have a PC with bad motivator, it's your job to plan opportunities for that PC to shine/make a difference without making it a one shot I win scenario. And that means that the encounters may be different because that PC has bad motivator

You're the GM dude, if you feel its going to have a negative impact on the game there are plenty of ways you can get around it.

One of my players uses a double bladed lightsaber and he uses the Throw Lightsaber talent frequently. In yesterdays session, he failed a particular roll because he targeted an enemy that was engaged with 2 of the players allies. I gave him t2 setback dice for this and the attack failed. I then used a destiny point to have the lightsaber fizzle and drop.

Just dont deny them too often, try to find a work around or plan for what your players are likely to do ahead of time and work in alternatives when you are planning your game.

Point is if you the GM have a PC with bad motivator, it's your job to plan opportunities for that PC to shine/make a difference without making it a one shot I win scenario. And that means that the encounters may be different because that PC has bad motivator

I’m only one person. I can’t think — in advance — of all possible combinations of all possible talents and skills, and all the possible ways that someone might do something.

And if I could, then I think the resulting games wouldn’t be fun for anyone.

As a human being, it is entirely reasonable for me to plan a scenario that might be susceptible to certain weaknesses which can be exploited by the players. That kind of unexpected reaction to the situation is one of the things that helps keep the game interesting.

With regards to talents of the nature being discussed, it is up to the players to make sure that they’re not looking for “one shot, I win” type of solutions to the problems presented to them. And if that is the result of their actions, then they should not be surprised if the GM turns right around and completely nerfs or nullifies their action.

Sorry, dude. Despite all your claims to the contrary, this has to be a cooperative process.

If you refuse to cooperate and meet me roughly half-way, then you’re likely to find my response … less palatable. And that fact would be entirely your own fault.

I say GMs should plan opportunities for their players to shine without one shotting the scenario and the message that you take away is it's the responsibility of the GM to never miss any cases where they can one shot? Really?

My players are happy that I give them opportunities where their bright shiny talent gives them 15 seconds of fame for the session... if I as a GM am not giving them that I won't fault them for taking the spotlight opportunities that do come up even if it results in a one shot.

Cortosis also causes lightsabers to fail. Then you wait a turn for it to reset and you turn it back on. If that's what Bad Motivator accomplishes--creating a brief window where the enemy is without his weapon/defense--then sure. OTOH, using the talent to totally remove the lightsaber from the encounter is a bit much.

I say GMs should plan opportunities for their players to shine without one shotting the scenario and the message that you take away is it's the responsibility of the GM to never miss any cases where they can one shot? Really?

My players are happy that I give them opportunities where their bright shiny talent gives them 15 seconds of fame for the session... if I as a GM am not giving them that I won't fault them for taking the spotlight opportunities that do come up even if it results in a one shot.

Its horses for courses mate. Different people have different ways of executing their games. Some like to get their players involved in coming up with the game, others like to micro manage every detail of the plot.

You seem to have a similar style to me, you give me the impression that you try to come up with alternative possible scenarios and outcomes based on the players actions.

I agree that if you know your players have particular talents then as the GM it is your job to make sure that you plan encounters where they can use that.

I say GMs should plan opportunities for their players to shine without one shotting the scenario and the message that you take away is it's the responsibility of the GM to never miss any cases where they can one shot? Really?

My players are happy that I give them opportunities where their bright shiny talent gives them 15 seconds of fame for the session... if I as a GM am not giving them that I won't fault them for taking the spotlight opportunities that do come up even if it results in a one shot.

Its horses for courses mate. Different people have different ways of executing their games. Some like to get their players involved in coming up with the game, others like to micro manage every detail of the plot.

You seem to have a similar style to me, you give me the impression that you try to come up with alternative possible scenarios and outcomes based on the players actions.

I agree that if you know your players have particular talents then as the GM it is your job to make sure that you plan encounters where they can use that.

Actually I ask my players what they want to see in their game, what the players' goals for their characters are pretty often and develop a plot around that... each character has a subplot related to their obligation, a duros Marshall Sharpshooter named Thad Bane wants to bring in his infamous uncle Cad Bane for killing his father, a human enforcer named Karsten Eshan unknowingly interfered with the business of mythical crime lord Emil Mola (star wars Kaeser Soze) and has been given the opportunity to work off his debt (What the galaxy knows about Emil Mola was that he was a minor human crime lord that Jabba fed to the sarlacc two hundred years ago, how is he still alive well "in his belly you will a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over the next thousand years"),... you get the idea any way I will weave 2 or 3 character subplots per session into the session storyline so multiple characters get their subplot/obligation spotlight per session

And in addition to taking plot requests from players often, I work in opportunities for them to use their talents especially for characters whose subplot/obligation aren't being spotlighted that session.

I want all my players to feel like their characters are important to the story every session

I say GMs should plan opportunities for their players to shine without one shotting the scenario and the message that you take away is it's the responsibility of the GM to never miss any cases where they can one shot? Really?

My players are happy that I give them opportunities where their bright shiny talent gives them 15 seconds of fame for the session... if I as a GM am not giving them that I won't fault them for taking the spotlight opportunities that do come up even if it results in a one shot.

Its horses for courses mate. Different people have different ways of executing their games. Some like to get their players involved in coming up with the game, others like to micro manage every detail of the plot.

You seem to have a similar style to me, you give me the impression that you try to come up with alternative possible scenarios and outcomes based on the players actions.

I agree that if you know your players have particular talents then as the GM it is your job to make sure that you plan encounters where they can use that.

Actually I ask my players what they want to see in their game, what the players' goals for their characters are pretty often and develop a plot around that... each character has a subplot related to their obligation, a duros Marshall Sharpshooter named Thad Bane wants to bring in his infamous uncle Cad Bane for killing his father, a human enforcer named Karsten Eshan unknowingly interfered with the business of mythical crime lord Emil Mola (star wars Kaeser Soze) and has been given the opportunity to work off his debt (What the galaxy knows about Emil Mola was that he was a minor human crime lord that Jabba fed to the sarlacc two hundred years ago, how is he still alive well "in his belly you will a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over the next thousand years"),... you get the idea any way I will weave 2 or 3 character subplots per session into the session storyline so multiple characters get their subplot/obligation spotlight per session

And in addition to taking plot requests from players often, I work in opportunities for them to use their talents especially for characters whose subplot/obligation aren't being spotlighted that session.

I want all my players to feel like their characters are important to the story every session

I get that mate, I am the same. I want my players to be the heroes in their story. Nothing is more important than my players, if they are not enjoying the game I take it very personally because it means I failed.