I personally am willing to suspend my disbelief here and play with cool ships. My CR90 does not fit in the hanger of my ISD mini guys. THE GAME IS RUINED.

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Just look at it that way: It's the "rogue" things that really matters. Invent a story for an unknown hero/bad guy. Stand up before you play and tell his story.

Edit: Oh, repeat for every rogue you bring to the table, of course.

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Just look at it that way: It's the "rogue" things that really matters. Invent a story for an unknown hero/bad guy. Stand up before you play and tell his story.

Edit: Oh, repeat for every rogue you bring to the table, of course.

Ok, so my the Firesprays are just Fett wannabes. They aren't quite as good, but they are good enough.

I have a few thoughts on this. One, the Falcon should be able to handle a squadron of TIE Fighters solo (har har). It took out four TIEs without suffering any significant damage, even after taking a lot of shots. And that was with the co-pilot flying, a farm boy with no combat experience in one turret, and Han (who is a pilot, not a gunner) in the other. And as someone else said, during the Battle of Endor with a full crew and trained gunners, it lights stuff up all day.

Another big thing to remember about the Millennium Falcon is that it's a smuggler's ship. It's meant to be fast and haul a good amount of illicit cargo, not blast its way out of trouble (which is sort of highlighted by the fact that it has a crew of two, and would need a minimum of four to operate properly). So any modifications made to it would be to increase its speed and maneuverability, not its shields or weapon systems. A freighter pilot with a stock YT-1300 who signs on to fight for the Rebellion with plans to engage enemy fighters on the regular would probably eye those shield and weapon modifications first. A Rebel freighter pilot is basically a privateer, and those guys used to take non-military vessels and stick a whole bunch of guns onto them. IIRC from almost every version of a Star Wars RPG, there were always way more powerful weapons that you could take on something the size of a YT. And you could convert that extra cargo space to pack in more shield generators or maybe even some ordnance.

I think a lone freighter taking on a full squadron of fighters makes sense. And each stand being a full squadron of twelve fighters also makes sense to me. If you think a stand is only three, that means that a might Imperial Star Destroyer only has the ability to coordinate the actions of a single squadron, but carries multiple squadrons?

I agree with the YT mod thing, and generally agree Reegsk, though I still like 'squadrons' being flights. Ugh, we're going to go into the ennumeration thing, aren't we? Right, I'll preface this just by saying 'this is coloured by my enjoyment of TIE fighter and 'small scale' engagements that fit with what I glean from Star Wars rather than extrapolate from it and other literary sources. The number is what you want it to be essentiall).

Even -if- a Star Destroyer had the capacity to carry 72 TIE fighters (and thtat lidicrous number of other ships and landers etc etc) it's still a 'paper strength'. What gets me is that I still don't think they'd launch all their fighters at the same time or you get a whole 'Midway' thing happening when you rearm and refuel all at once then leave yourself open.

So 72 fighters in various waves, and an Armada battle might constitute just 1 'wave'. Then there's the question of it being at paper strength rather than operational strength: how many TIEs can be lost over a period of weeks or months? How many experience general breakdowns, or are iundergoing maintenence, used for spare parts, kept as reserves, left to operate as pickets and patrols? How many have sick or dead flight crews, or otherwise are unavailable at one time? 72 fighters might quickly become 50, which need to cover multiple 'waves' for safe operational redundency, which means maybe 24 fighters operating at any one time, along with an operational reserve: and then that's only carrying capacity. Coordination of their movements beyond general practice, and all the other tactical relaying might take more effort, so controlling 6 flights at any one time while the rest carry on their general mission seems okay with me*.

But that's me. Either way, I don't have an issue with it. 1 super tramp freighter killing 3 Ties is fine. 1 Super tramp freighter and an undisclosed number of friends shooting down 12 tie fighters is also okay to me. Some decked out freighter with an insane ultra-aggressive pilot blasting apart enemy fighters... well, after Poe Dameron's little 12 second dog fight kill-streak in Force Awakens, sure, why not?

*One of my favourite part of TIE fighter was a combat air patrol mission where the Star Destoryer in question was outright running out of TIE fighter hulls so they had to jury rig and refit TIE bombers to fill the role of emergency anti-fighter interceptors.

TIE Fighter was one of my favorite games. . .and I think it's on Humble Bundle right now, too.

And those arguments definitely make sense. I really liked the way BFG handled squadrons. They flew out and made one engagement, then returned to refuel/rearm. You could have a number of squadrons in play equal to your squadron value, and rolling doubles on your command check to launch more fighters meant that you ran out, which was to represent ship losses, bungled orders, etc. Of course, that mechanic worked because BFG was almost exclusively about the ships. Sure, the ships are still the main focus in Armada too, but I think they still wanted to capture the fighter aspect from the movies as well (hence so many powerful unique squadrons).

Firestorm armada also has that mechanic of fighters deploy, vanish after they bomb, and then redeploy. Counter-attacks occur when they are being attacked.

Personally I don't think too hard about how many fighters are in a playing piece. I'm happy believing that each one is instead a flight group, and aces are just one craft contained within a sub-flight group of smaller bodyguards.

I don't understand the issue. . . Ohhh many Firesprays! Well looks, there is a big universe out there and all of your "thematic" ideas can be tossed out of the window.

TIE Fighter was one of my favorite games. . .and I think it's on Humble Bundle right now, too.

[the rest almost fades to static as the rat checks the humble bundle]

Oh my God, it is! With Rebellion and Kotor too.

Hmm, yeah I agree: BFG was definitely about the ships, but the way that escorts worked there feels closer to how fighters feel in Armada. With that one update about only having as many squadrons as you had hangars in BFG, it was fine, but the 'massing fighters' that happened before it was FAQ'd was sure irritating. (or was it the BFG Armada expansion that corrected it as part of an update?)

But yeah, Firesprays generally don't bother me because they're a patrol craft. It might seem weird to not have TIES but there's still law enforcement ship so that's fine. YV-666, meh, I don't like them but they're a contractor, and Aggressors are easy to call 'ace craft' from independent Imperial aligned factions (like the Mandalorians were in Rebels). The Jumpmaster is a scout, right? So... I don't know, Imperial survey corps? It's not like there's a lot of them that see play in multiples, that's a YT and Firespray thing. (I haven't even seen multiple aggressors used now that I think about it).

If you think a stand is only three, that means that a might Imperial Star Destroyer only has the ability to coordinate the actions of a single squadron, but carries multiple squadrons?

It's not possible to use logic to rationalise these things. A Star Destroyer should have the ability to co-ordinate multiple squadrons, conduct repairs and engineering commands and maneuver commands and gunnery commands and wash the captains uniforms and cook dinner for the crew and repaint that nasty dent where Flight Lieutenant Jones dinged the starboard prow when he was taking the ship out of dock last week and, well, you get the idea. The number of squadrons commanded is a purely arbitrary figure that is only related to game-play and balance and has NOTHING to do with background and lore.

My own personal opinion is that the Rebels having freighters makes more sense than the Imperials having freighters or even using bounty hunters/mercenaries regularly and in quantity.

Outside of whether they should exist or not in generic form and I think they should, I think 2 of them are a little to good for a generic. The yt-2400 and the Aggressor. If both lost a blue die in squadron attack but cost the same they would be less auto include. Still great value, but less 'must have'

The other stuff is all pretty balanced. the stock YT-1300 can take a beating for sure, but is slow and poor in a fight, as well as not be Rogue.

Same with the YV-666

Outside of whether they should exist or not in generic form and I think they should, I think 2 of them are a little to good for a generic. The yt-2400 and the Aggressor. If both lost a blue die in squadron attack but cost the same they would be less auto include. Still great value, but less 'must have'

The other stuff is all pretty balanced. the stock YT-1300 can take a beating for sure, but is slow and poor in a fight, as well as not be Rogue.

Same with the YV-666

I would agree that neither are an auto-include. They're both fantastic against moderate fighter builds, but they won't hold up a massive fighter swarm for very long. Plus, with only four ships, about half of your force would easily fit into Intel range and be ignored.

Now, if you want to ignore your own squadrons and focus your upgrades and points towards ships, they're invaluable. With Rogue, you almost never have to worry about squadron commands or keeping them within command range of your ships, and they put out some impressive anti-squadron dice.

My own personal opinion is that the Rebels having freighters makes more sense than the Imperials having freighters or even using bounty hunters/mercenaries regularly and in quantity.

I agree. I'm fine with the Empire thematically hiring the services of alien "scum," and we see plenty of evidence of it in the films and extended sources. The bounty hunters are hired to find Han in ESB. In both ANH and TFA, we see alien informants on the payroll of the Empire and the First Order. In the new comics, like the Lando series, we see Palpatine hire a bounty hunter. The art from the X-Wing card "Ruthlessness" (Imperial Only) depicts an Imperial officer in cahoots with a Trandoshan merc who has just captured a human prisoner.

So, while I have no qualms with the Empire making use of the services of alien mercenaries, I do find it weird to have those mercenaries as part of an Imperial fleet. It's one thing to pay them for the odd job here or there as independent contractors, but its another to have them flying in formation during a fleet battle getting coordinated by Imperial warships. I tend to be a purist when I play Imps, so I run all TIE Variants with the exception of Dengar. He is just so good it's hard to not bring him. Which makes me sad as I watch some swoop-racing bounty hunter coordinate all of my TIEs in ways the rest of my Imperial soldiers could only dream of.

But, at the same time, the little miniatures are awesome, they were fun to paint, and they are iconic characters people love so I guess it's good they were able to be brought into the game.

I consider the rogues and villains models to represent that one unique ship plus a few assigned escorts, probably standard x-wings or TIEs or whatever, it's not important. Fighters represent squadrons of indeterminate size, probably 12 or more, the exact number doesn't matter to me personally.

For gameplay purposes, it would have perhaps been better if the generics didn't have the Rogue keyword (with costs/stats adjusted accordingly), but what we have is what we have. The only thing that really bugs me is the fact that the INTEL keyword is not available on a normal squadron yet, but that can always be remedied.

In tournament play, all bets are off. The rules allow for as many Firesprays as you want to take.

But in a league or campaign, where you're focusing on fluff, it could be very reasonable to say "All Rogues and Villains are Unique." So that limits each player to one Han Solo and one YT-1300. Which would kind of make sense. The Falcon was the only non-capital ship that also wasn't a snubfighter. Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

To exploit the ramming mechanics of course. They were all equipped with engine techs.

I have to disagree on most points.

First of all, they have been extremely good for the game. They've added extra layers to the squadron game with Rogue and Intel that have made squadrons go from irrelevant to a necessity. On their own they're not even close to overpowered. Commanded squadrons will dominate Rogues any day of the week. Intel ships are fairly week, so including them means you're bringing less firepower than you otherwise could. I understand Imperials not liking them thematically (they're scum after all), but freighters have long been part of Rebel fleets. I'm tempted to grab some Mel miniature stuff and just use the rules for the Scum. Use a Lamda shuttle in place of Dengar, or a TIE Defender in place of the Aggressor.

Second, I've always seen squadrons as the literal three fighters on the stand. We obsess over the aviation meaning of squadron, which is 12-24. Giving weren't talking about space fighters, that's understandable. However, the term squadron is not exclusively the 12-24 number. Naval squadrons can be as few as three ships. An Army squadron is a scout equivalent of a battalion. I think based on the stats on the cards and what we've seen from the movies, an Armada squadron is three. I think they just went with the term "squadrons" because it was a simple and recognizable term for Star Wars junkies. It doesn't have to be a precise number.

The Falcon was the only non-capital ship that also wasn't a snubfighter. Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

Who said the GR75 was a troop transport? Typically, it was used more to haul stuff, not troops.

That aside, they served in several roles during the Battle of Endor.

• Some were used to help coordinate fighters.
• Others were used to jam enemy fighters and ships.
• They also could project shields or energy to more valuable allies.
• Still others were packed full of explosive payloads and piloted by droids into enemy ships.

These were at least some of the roles they played at the Battle of Endor. Presumably they may have also filled other rolls, like picking up ejected fighter pilots (which was something submarines typically did during naval battles in WWII, for instance).

The Falcon was the only non-capital ship that also wasn't a snubfighter. Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

Who said the GR75 was a troop transport? Typically, it was used more to haul stuff, not troops.

That aside, they served in several roles during the Battle of Endor.

• Some were used to help coordinate fighters.
• Others were used to jam enemy fighters and ships.
• They also could project shields or energy to more valuable allies.
• Still others were packed full of explosive payloads and piloted by droids into enemy ships.

These were at least some of the roles they played at the Battle of Endor. Presumably they may have also filled other rolls, like picking up ejected fighter pilots (which was something submarines typically did during naval battles in WWII, for instance).

I sincerely hope we get something as versatile if/when FFG makes it.

The Falcon was the only non-capital ship that also wasn't a snubfighter. Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

Who said the GR75 was a troop transport? Typically, it was used more to haul stuff, not troops.

That aside, they served in several roles during the Battle of Endor.

• Some were used to help coordinate fighters.
• Others were used to jam enemy fighters and ships.
• They also could project shields or energy to more valuable allies.
• Still others were packed full of explosive payloads and piloted by droids into enemy ships.

These were at least some of the roles they played at the Battle of Endor. Presumably they may have also filled other rolls, like picking up ejected fighter pilots (which was something submarines typically did during naval battles in WWII, for instance).

I sincerely hope we get something as versatile if/when FFG makes it.

They did in X-Wing, already. It's a delightfully versatile ship, depending on how you upgrade it.

It can "jam" enemy fighters by passing out stress tokens and taking away action tokens.

It can "protect" your ships by using its energy on shield projector upgrades to draw fire away.

You can use Slicer Tools to hack and sabotage enemy fighter systems.

You can also use it to clear a path and ram through enemy formations.

FFG really did the GR75 justice in Epic X-Wing, and even though it doesn't have any guns* it's still an exceptionally interesting and useful ship to fly.

*Of course, in the lore it was apparently not hard or uncommon to mount hardpoints onto the GR75, so some of them at the Battle of Endor had probably even been combat retrofit with modest weaponry.

The Falcon was the only non-capital ship that also wasn't a snubfighter. Well, and GR-75s, but I still can't imagine why they brought troop transports to a fleet engagement. . .

Who said the GR75 was a troop transport? Typically, it was used more to haul stuff, not troops.

That aside, they served in several roles during the Battle of Endor.

• Some were used to help coordinate fighters.
• Others were used to jam enemy fighters and ships.
• They also could project shields or energy to more valuable allies.
• Still others were packed full of explosive payloads and piloted by droids into enemy ships.

These were at least some of the roles they played at the Battle of Endor. Presumably they may have also filled other rolls, like picking up ejected fighter pilots (which was something submarines typically did during naval battles in WWII, for instance).

I sincerely hope we get something as versatile if/when FFG makes it.

We never will. Wave 3 isn't happening. Obviously they would have released it by now unless they were cancelling the game. HAVEN'T YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THE FORUMS????

I'll give up the transports, but give me an option to buy Rogue for some of my rebel fighters