Hey guys, I normally am just an occasional lurker and rarely a poster but figured I could get some help. I decided a while back I was going to run a Star Wars RPG for a couple buddies that havent ever played one before (any RPG...ever...but they are curious so I may as well convert some people) and figured visual aids would help. With that in mind I reached out and grabbed some of the various models (both X wing and Imperial Assault) and decided it was prudent since I owned a couple of the models I may as well learn. Well I hopped down to my LGS joined a league and next thing you know I am all in. Like liquidate my other games and get tons of IA, Xwing, and Armada.

I am a casual-competitive gamer that has been around the block a while (about 20+ years wargaming) and was instantly taken in by the surface simple mechanics but deep and easy list building and options. I instantly had myself in a jam though, I picked up some rebels and imperials and quickly decided that while I hate the look of generic TIE fighters I loved the look of the rest of the imperial ships, and while I loved the look of MOST of the rebel ships I hated the look of a handful (A wings, Y wings, and I am really not a fan of the YT ships...either of them). So with that in mind I set about playing Imperials...I joined the league super late and ended up last place which paired me with the first place person for the end of league tournament...I know meta varies from store to store and even country to country but yeesh. 12 players with 8 imp, 3 SnV, 1 rebel. Of the 8 Imperials 6 were basically the same list (palpatine in a transport and vader in an advanced). I was shocked by the spread. More than that over my last 8 games I have noticed that the base stats on rebel ships seem to be just better. There is some variation here and there but pound for pound the rebels seem to just have better ships. I know when you look at the top tier items things even out a bit (Fel, Han, IG88 and more stuff I am sure I seem to be missing) but my early observation seems to be unless you really want to swarm (with basic TIEs which I hate) or the crazy ark dodging interceptors your choices are limited.

We have a store tournament coming up in a couple weeks and at this point (after what happened to me last week) I am debating if its worth the effort to show up. I get there is a curve but if a majority of the field is playing 2 different lists it seems almost like a waste of time.

Are the swarms and 'fat' lists just that much better that they dominate a lot of the global scene? I feel like the lack of shields (in imperial ships) regardless of the hull values is just silly but obviously I have a super small sample of games to judge from. Is there something a little more new player friendly I should fiddle with before I really bother to show up to events?

Local meta can always be a factor of trying to beat or join what someone else, locally, does well. Ignore that. It is an influence, but what you need to understand is that all of the lists are beatable, but you are more likely beating yourself. If you can honestly say you flew without hitting a single asteroid, were focusing fire on your targets and had good to excellent target selection, then this is not applicable to you. If you missed a few things here and there, it is to be expected... we all have to go through this phase. In time, and with practice, you will improve a lot.

Are rebel ships stronger? Probably, but you pay for what you get. In the end, all lists can win and lose. Sometimes luck is a factor, but real piloting skill is valuable. Knowing how to predict your opponent is important and then acting ahead of time to either be there first or to put all guns on that spot become game changers. Are you modifying your dice every single roll? Some ships require it more than others, but all ships last longer and do more damage when you can modify the dice.

Should you go to the store championship? ABSOLUTELY! You will see more than just the players at the league. You will fly more games in a single day than you probably have previously and will deal with other issues as mistakes are easier to make later in the day. Should you expect to win? Nope, but you'll likely get a cool alt art card and some other prizes. It will be a little different atmosphere (unless the store caps the attendance really low) but mostly you will get quite a few games with one single list (your league may have been the same, not sure). As many people are quite open about list building, put something together and put it into the Squad List thread and you'll get feedback (try to use a thoughtful title instead of "check my list yo" that gives people a clue about your faction and possibly type of list). Browse through there or search (just use "quotes" around anything with only 3 letters... so many pilots are affected by this basic limitation of the forum) to find something similar and see what other people are doing and what the comments were about it. Try to think of a theme or some kind of synergy between the pilots that makes them better as a unit than they are apart.

I too came for the RPG and thought using the X-Wing ships would be cool and then dove off the deep end... come on in, the water's fine!

I'll second the flying. When I lose, which is often since I've only been playing for 2 months, I can always trace it back to a bad piloting choice. In my first tournament, I went 1-3. In the win, it was because of piloting well and getting into TLT donuts. In the losses, it was totally bad flying that got my Vader killed too early.

Same as you though, the rebel durability, regen and TLT options are tempting me to go that way.

Hard to imagine anyone hating the TIE fighter. What causes your hate of certain ships? Is it just the look, or is there something about the way the TIE plays that you don't like? A well-flown TIE is a beautiful thing.

I used to hate playing B-wings for the longest time, but I gave them another shot after a while, and they just clicked for me. (in the rare cases that i'd play rebel, and i'm still no B-wing master, I just started to understand their play style)

competitive scenes in an rng driven game are generally driven by how well you mitigate shite rng

as such, rebels seem "better" because you can mitigate shite rng through just purchasing upgrades. Shield regeneration ala r2-d2 or r5-p9 on the likes of Poe (who, with his ability + thrusters, is guaranteed an evade result) makes it very easy to flip your dice the bird.

likewise, your 8 health B-wing will always sustain 8 damage before dying while your sh*tty Tie Fighter might only sustain 3. On the other hand, said B-wing will almost always die after getting 8 hits rolled at it, while the Tie Fighter can still be left standing. Such is the way of the fickle green die

empire has something somewhat similar in the "palpatine aces" build, which uses this handsome devil

to allow push the limit soontir to avoid at least three damage (evade + focus &/ thrusters + palpatine), as an example

overall, though, imperial ships have to play the maneuver game to avoid sh*tty rng. The best defense is simply not getting shot. In a game with turrets (though things like twin laser turrets can be dodged), that obviously doesn't seem as easy as just buying upgrades. This makes empire, imo, far less forgiving and more suited for experienced players

the swarm is a spin on the "**** rng" archtype which minimizes **** rng through sheer weight of numbers. Problem with it, that most fail to appreciate, is the controlling 7-8 ties is bloody hard work especially over the course of an entire tournament

Getting beaten by 8 Imperial lists will leave you with one or two feelings. 1) You can't stand those guys! or 2) Join em!

My wife quit playing rebels because she kept losing and felt bad for the rebels.

I can't speak for your tournament scene but tournaments can be a good place to learn. My local tournament scene is friendly but competitive, if you make mistakes, you will pay for it and nothing teaches you faster than learning from mistakes which you pay for.

You get to play with other players as well and play against ships you don't have.

Imperial has the most manoeuvrable ships, and a large number of pilots to choose from on their staple ships. Imperials have deadly aces, and their ships can function well as a formation.

Rebels are the most versatile fleet, and they have the most unique characters acting as crew or astromechs. Rebels have a ship or upgrade for every situation and different ships can have good synergy with each other.

Scum are currently the smallest fleet. And are somewhere in between the other 2 fleets. Their fleet is ragtag and they have risky flying style where they are willing to take damage or penalties to inflict damage.

Hard to imagine anyone hating the TIE fighter. What causes your hate of certain ships? Is it just the look, or is there something about the way the TIE plays that you don't like? A well-flown TIE is a beautiful thing.

I used to hate playing B-wings for the longest time, but I gave them another shot after a while, and they just clicked for me. (in the rare cases that i'd play rebel, and i'm still no B-wing master, I just started to understand their play style)

So satisfying when You fly them well.

Local metas are weird, in my store championship not one person played Imperials.

The imperial list with a couple aces and Palpatine in a transport is super popular right now, it is a pretty solid list. The Imperials love their stand alone aces... but there are certainly multiple ways to build an Imperial list. With the next wave dropping soon TIE bombers and defenders will be dangerous and pretty powerful (assuming the veterans pack drops with the wave).

Are there any ships you like the look of more than the others, or how they are on paper more? Can always make a list centered around them, and at this point in the game you can come up with a lot of really nice lists for practically any ship. You'll find something that clicks for you.

Thanks for the replies guys and I'll try to sneak in a couple games over the next few weeks and then go to the tourney. I flew pretty well I think - I don't think I landed on asteroids and aggressively went after him but eventually ended up in a corner and couldn't get arc to save my life towards the end of the match.

As for my tie hate. I think they look dumb. And I hate the basic fighters lack of sengors loop. Just something rubs me the wrong way about them. Outside of that though I love all of the empires ships aesthetically. I love all of the rebel ships functionally. It puts me in a weird place as far as playing the game and I can honestly say this hasn't happened to me before. For what it's worth I haven't ever looked up lists online and I brought to the tourney:

Decimator - charineu; palpating, jade, ruthless, determination

Vader advanced; engine upgrade, targeting computer, concussion missile, determination

Thanks for the replies guys and I'll try to sneak in a couple games over the next few weeks and then go to the tourney. I flew pretty well I think - I don't think I landed on asteroids and aggressively went after him but eventually ended up in a corner and couldn't get arc to save my life towards the end of the match.

As for my tie hate. I think they look dumb. And I hate the basic fighters lack of sengors loop. Just something rubs me the wrong way about them. Outside of that though I love all of the empires ships aesthetically. I love all of the rebel ships functionally. It puts me in a weird place as far as playing the game and I can honestly say this hasn't happened to me before. For what it's worth I haven't ever looked up lists online and I brought to the tourney:

Decimator - charineu; palpating, jade, ruthless, determination

Vader advanced; engine upgrade, targeting computer, concussion missile, determination

Segnor's loops are VERY new, only 3 ships now have them. that's like hating people for not having PHDs.

Segnor's loops are VERY new, only 3 ships now have them. that's like hating people for not having PHDs.

I think the loop is neat but that is just a blip on the radar of why I don't like any tie or fo.

Try tournament. I have strong desires to play one. I think I am a medium - skill player. I.know I will be blown to pieces, and that I will learn a lot.

You do not like Y Wings look... SOMEBODY CALLS THE INQUISITION !!!

You must go. At the very least, you get C3PO for free (or, technically, your entry fee I guess)

I agree that local metas can be odd. Personally, I hate "meta". In some areas, there are people who only look at what the top people in the world are playing and only listen to the super competitive podcasts about the game. There are a lot of ships, pilots, and upgrades that are deemed "not competitive" and people think they should never be played. I find when that takes hold in an area, tournaments can be quite boring and repetitive as you always play against similar lists. I will say that there are a lot of "competitive" lists out these days and more so than ever before, even if no one else in your area plays with them.

I always have tried to buck the trend and try things that are "terrible". I took 4 Tie Bombers to last year's Store Champ back before Extra Munitions and the new fixes coming out for them. It wasn't a large event, but people just didn't know how to fly against my list. I was the only undefeated person going into the Top 4. I lost out to 3 generic Phantoms that won the whole thing. One thing I've found is that if you fly something that you like and it works for you, then you can often do really well as people have no idea how to fly against it, especially if they are only used to facing just a few list types. It does take practice to get good at an odd list, but it does bring immense satisfaction to win with something "not competitive".

If you look at the Store Championship 2016 thread, you can see all the different types of lists that are coming in the Top 4. You often see mostly one faction in many stores finishing at the top. It's different per store. Other times you see crazy lists winning and doing well. A few people have placed with Kihraxz Fighters only in their list when most people consider them some of the worst ships around.

People used to consider the Tie Defender to be a terrible ship. Biophysical played a few events in his area and beat everyone with a list that was 2 named Tie Defenders. He was considered a "blip" or "abnormality" in the tournament scene. If they really were good, why weren't people flying them. Well, since he did so well with them, a few more people have been trying them out. Oh, there is a fix coming out for them in Imperial Veterans pack this year, but there have been people winning with them in their lists without these fixes. So, maybe it's not a bad ship if you actually take the time to learn how to fly it!

There is more to Empire than just the Emperor and 2 Aces. There is more to the Empire than just Vader and Soontir Fel. Those guys get overplayed A LOT. I get tired of seeing them on the table. There are other types of lists you can fly. If you don't like Tie Swarms (which I don't), try a "mini swarm". That's one heavy hitter and 4 or so Ties or Tie FO's. Or you can have a number of decent pointed moderate ships. What about 4-5 named characters? I personally prefer 4 Scimitar Tie Bombers loaded with Homing Missiles, Seismic Charges, and Extra Munitions. Soon to be Guidance Chips and Long Range Scanners. I find this list beats most things I face and a lot of people just have no idea how to face Tie Bombers. I find that the alpha strike of ordnance really helps defeat shield regenerators. It's hard to get shields back when you are blown up in one turn.

Playing in tournaments and leagues can be fun. You can learn a lot and meet new players. I will say, though, that it isn't the end all be all of X-wing, though. I feel really lucky that there are a lot of local players in my store that don't care about tournaments and never go. They just like to have fun. They play fun lists and play what they want. We do scenarios and epic battles and whatever crazy stuff we want to. It's the most fun. In fact, I have had so much fun with that type of game play, that I just decided not to attend any Store Championship this year. I've placed top 4 often and won a few, but that type of game just doesn't hold my interest anymore. One of the things I started to do was play the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster campaign. It's fan based and everyone is on the same side. It's been a real blast. I've loved it. There are even a couple of guys that quit playing X-wing b/c they got sick of "tournament" style play that are coming back and loving it.

So, if you find you don't like league or tournament play, there is more to X-wing than that. The most important thing is to have fun.

Hard to imagine anyone hating the TIE fighter. What causes your hate of certain ships? Is it just the look, or is there something about the way the TIE plays that you don't like? A well-flown TIE is a beautiful thing.

I used to hate playing B-wings for the longest time, but I gave them another shot after a while, and they just clicked for me. (in the rare cases that i'd play rebel, and i'm still no B-wing master, I just started to understand their play style)

The thing that gets me about the TIEs are the 2 lousy red dice. Then having to make up for it by fielding so many which is another challenge all together.

I never expect a Tie Fighter or Z-95 to do much, but they always seem to do half the damage in a list when I fly them.

as much as I like the tie fighter, I've also just switched completely to the FO (granted, I field a minimum 18 points for Crackshot Omegas; the epsilon is nowhere near worth as much as a black squadron with crackshot)

that 1 shield means far less rng related bull (far more difficult to one-shot; that one shield makes sh*tty single crits far less likely to happen) and the dial is pure sex. The FO can pull moves right out of the tie fighter's dreams, and it can do them with style.

plus there's the Omega and Zeta Leaders, both of whom transcend the 2 dice problem with flying (Black and white) colors

they're beautiful little ships that I hope dont get too displaced by the fixed defender

Control, Control, Control. Aces with palp are very apealing. And they are fun to fly. Until you run into someone who runs a rebel control list. Things get dicey. As far as competitive play, you will always see people playing what works. And your local meta may differ from the rest of the nation. If most of the people in your area are playing Imp Aces with palp then I would suggest you look at Paul Heaver's list from worlds or any list that contains a stress hog. Most of those lists rely on actions and they suffer greatly when they cant take them. Now this is not an auto win by any strech but stress and TLTs cause palp aces fits in most cases. And as a newer player it is more forgiving to play. Also for now I would steer clear of munitions. At least until you have several more games under your belt.

Man, the meta changes hour to hour in my area. Every store championship has been different than the one the week before - usually with everyone overreacting to the previous week's top four or eight.

I really appreciate all the feedback. I am a little recharged to get to the store championship and just lay some models on the table. I'll probably start working on a list over the next couple days. I guess I just need to decide what I value more the maneuverability of the empire or the toughness of the rebels.

A buddy of mine is starting with me now and he is a big researcher. He told me most of the lists I see people playing here are the "top tier" lists. Who knows if that tracks but I'll keep on grinding. Just learning rules and figuring a way around auto thrusters and the cannons I see dominating my area.

I only play rebels, missed my local main tournament as I was ill, joined in a mini tournament last week, 6 players after a couple of practice games previously where I tried 2 T65's and a Y wing stresshog. Didn't have TLT or Ion Turret so Y wing didn't last long. For the tornament I played 2 T70's and 2 Z95's with ion pulse missiles. I got slaughtered. Lasted 3 rounds, first against a Tie FO swarm half with Juke. Trying to line the z missiles up to shoot I collided a T70 and both Z's in the middle and never recovered - my bad flying.

Next I played the top player there, who had a Starviper, Hwk, and Hounds Tooth. He had an ability I had never faced, zeroing my ace pilot ability and then Ion cannoning me constantly meant he wiped me out while I almost destroyed the Hounds Tooth.

Last game was against a Falcon (Chewie) and 2 Y wings. I failed to get the missiles off and got the Z's stuck in a furball with the Y's. nearly killed the Falcon (2 hull points left) but lost the z's and Ello Asty. Mainly inexperience on my part, I'll do better next time. Didn't help that out of the 6 players two were very good, 2 better and luckier than me, the other 2 I was knocked out before I faced, but I'd played against the one, 2 B's and the Falcon before (with the stresshog) and got wiped out.

It happens, move on and learn from it. I came away with a dice bag (sadly imperial)