Don`t they do that in the movies and tv-shows? Or am I remembering it wrong?

Obi-Wan communicates in real-time with the Jedi Temple while on Kamino. Now, Kamino is a system so remote that it isn't even on any of their nav charts which means he couldn't have been communicating through a local holonet substation.

Therefore, at a minimum, the transmitters on a small starfighter are powerful enough to communicate out-of-system, and should probably be able to transmit hundreds of light years away without relays.

It's not actually all that remote; it's more that it's been kept off the charts and is somewhat remote. Atlas lists it as in chunk S-15; this puts it roughly between Gamor and Tatooine... and not far off a major hyperspace route; the Trellus route runs between Huttspace and Tatooine... And it's not far from Rishi.

In other words, it's hard to find (having been deleted from the central databanks of the republic and the Jedi) more than actually distant.

At the time of the Clone Wars, it would seem that there weren't any Holonet repeaters in the Outer Rim. Since it can be assumed that Jedi transmitters have at least the same range as the Pioneer (100ly), and since there are a ton of stars within 100ly of Sol, the only reason he wouldn't be able to send a transmission to the Core is that the nearest Holonet Relay was more than 100ly away.

Because Naboo was the home of the Supreme Chancellor, it's likely that Palaptine, at some point after the Trade Federation invasion, had a relay installed within 100ly of Naboo, but outside of 100ly from Geonosis (simple enough as Eriadu is a likely place for such a relay).

Therefore, it's possible that Naboo would be within range of a known relay (Eriadu) whereas Geonosis would not be (Nar Shadda seems more than 100ly away from Geonosis and is the most likely location for a relay in Hutt Space).

Tatooine is, galactically, right next door to Geonosis, so the only reason Anakin would be able to relay to the Core from essentially the same place as Obi Wan would be Padme's ship, being a Senator's private vessel, has an enhanced communication system (Holonet Pirate Array or the like) which is necessary to ensure she is capable of being in constant contact with the Senate for emergency recalls, etc.

At least that's how I'm reconciling it in my head.

Per the devices available in FFG (see my post above), Obi-wan didn't need to connect via a Holonet relay within the Geonosis system. He could have been communicating via a relay up to 100 light years away with a transceiver that has no lag. There's also a 15 encumbrance holonet relay available for 75,000 credits in FFG. A Jedi on a secret scout mission to the fringes of space sent by the Jedi Council could easily have been supplied with a starship with such a device installed (might be a tad large for the cargo space, but easily could be a house attachment).Perhaps it was installed on the hyperspace sled he left in orbit? With FFG RAW gear, he could have been carrying his own holonet relay since he had unlimited funds.

But, again, you have to toss the FFG contradiction of Comms Range = Sensor Range.

Per the devices available in FFG (see my post above), Obi-wan didn't need to connect via a Holonet relay within the Geonosis system. He could have been communicating via a relay up to 100 light years away with a transceiver that has no lag. There's also a 15 encumbrance holonet relay available for 75,000 credits in FFG. A Jedi on a secret scout mission to the fringes of space sent by the Jedi Council could easily have been supplied with a starship with such a device installed (might be a tad large for the cargo space, but easily could be a house attachment).Perhaps it was installed on the hyperspace sled he left in orbit? With FFG RAW gear, he could have been carrying his own holonet relay since he had unlimited funds.

But, again, you have to toss the FFG contradiction of Comms Range = Sensor Range.

The Pioneer gets you 100ly (and onto any holonet repeaters within that range), at least that's my take. Which means that there weren't any repeaters within 100ly of Geonosis at the time. Considering that his entire starfighter has a base cost of between 30 and 85k, an additional 75k for a Holonet Relay seems a tad questionable.

Per the devices available in FFG (see my post above), Obi-wan didn't need to connect via a Holonet relay within the Geonosis system. He could have been communicating via a relay up to 100 light years away with a transceiver that has no lag. There's also a 15 encumbrance holonet relay available for 75,000 credits in FFG. A Jedi on a secret scout mission to the fringes of space sent by the Jedi Council could easily have been supplied with a starship with such a device installed (might be a tad large for the cargo space, but easily could be a house attachment).Perhaps it was installed on the hyperspace sled he left in orbit? With FFG RAW gear, he could have been carrying his own holonet relay since he had unlimited funds.

But, again, you have to toss the FFG contradiction of Comms Range = Sensor Range.

The Pioneer gets you 100ly (and onto any holonet repeaters within that range), at least that's my take. Which means that there weren't any repeaters within 100ly of Geonosis at the time. Considering that his entire starfighter has a base cost of between 30 and 85k, an additional 75k for a Holonet Relay seems a tad questionable.

I don't have my book, but "Pioneer" and "Long Range Transceiver" may be the same thing. I didn't use the model title but shortened it.

Why weren't there any repeaters within 100 LY of Geonosis? I don't follow the logic. If anything, the opposite could be implied since he actually did communicate over a vast distant in real-time. There wasn't lag, so of the two means of communications (subspace radio vs. hyperspace radio), the second must have been used.

Obi-wan is on a scout mission at the far edge of space. He's being sent by one of the most wealthy, most powerful organizations in the Galaxy. He's their top troubleshooter. Success of the mission could have Galaxy-wide ramifications. Obi-wan's Q should be fired if he don't think to supply him with the communication gear to phone home. 75,000 credits wouldn't even be blinked at.

Hm. This conversation fascinates me.

In rebels their dejarik table doubles as a holonet device.

They have comms that work across space in the cockpit.

In a separate room Hera communicates to her contacts from who knows where.

Hm. This conversation fascinates me.

In rebels their dejarik table doubles as a hold net device.

They have comms that work across space in the cockpit.

In a separate room Hera communicates to her contacts from who knows where.

"Plot convenience units".

Hm. This conversation fascinates me.

In rebels their dejarik table doubles as a holonet device.

They have comms that work across space in the cockpit.

In a separate room Hera communicates to her contacts from who knows where.

All are possible with FFG's gear. Just not with Comms Range = Sensors Range.

All are possible with FFG's gear. Just not with Comms Range = Sensors Range.

I think the one place where I’d fall back to the “Comms Range = Sensors Range” is where one end is the ship, and the other end is someone whose location is not necessarily known and who might be using personal-scale communications gear that was not intended for long-range communications.

So, it would take use of the Sensor array on the ship to find those transmissions out of the cacophony of other radio noise, but once you’ve got a lock on the signal, then you could move beyond regular sensor range.

And if you’re starting out beyond sensor range to begin with, you could switch to active sensor mode to scan in a particular direction with them, and it would take longer to make that initial connection. But once it’s made, then you fall back to more directional methods that can allow for much longer-range communications.

In essence, much like we do with radio telescopes and spacecraft today. Or WiFi, here on the ground.

So... What do people mean by modern day hacking and not mixing it up in your campaign? Not even sure I know what its is. I have let the mechanic in our group scramble enemy ship comms, give false information and credentials,

delete information, track the signals from a drone droid to the source, take over and/or shut down systems and even primitive droids with computer slicing(so slicing was kind of the Force, with droids:p). So what should a slicer be able to and not be able to do in this genre?

Holonet, controlled by the Empire, relies on relays, which can be hacked or destroyed for fun missions

I've been working on an "Electronics Warfare" PDF that tackles both Sensors and Coms expanded game rules. It covers some of the questions above. I tried to make it true as possible to RAW, but there are so many contradictions across the various supplements it was impossible and I ended up with a few house rules. Think of it as "advanced sensors and coms" with house rules to make everything in RAW non-contradictory.

The rough draft will probably be ready to evaluate in a couple days and I will probably start a seperate thread for it.

I've been working on an "Electronics Warfare" PDF that tackles both Sensors and Coms expanded game rules. It covers some of the questions above. I tried to make it true as possible to RAW, but there are so many contradictions across the various supplements it was impossible and I ended up with a few house rules. Think of it as "advanced sensors and coms" with house rules to make everything in RAW non-contradictory.

The rough draft will probably be ready to evaluate in a couple days and I will probably start a seperate thread for it.

This sounds like something that might be very useful in one of my current campaigns. Dedicated signal interception, retransmission and ELINT ships are a big part of the ongoing plot.

So whats the consensus then? Is there a serious discrepancy in the RAW where communications is concerned and a house rule a must?

Is it as easy as coming up with some communication range classifications and simply assigning equipment as it appears in the rules to one of them?

"I'd recommend that any GM figure out what works for them, and then be consistent within their game, and live within those limits."- Maxkilljoy

I agree totally, and its the direction I intend to take but could use a little help from those more familiar with the system. I have the PDF on communications systems, and its great, but it appears we need a bit more to settle the whole issue.

So whats the consensus then? Is there a serious discrepancy in the RAW where communications is concerned and a house rule a must?

I think the consensus is that there are lots of different opinions on the subject, and I’m not convinced that all of the disagreeing parties have agreed to just disagree.

Speaking only for myself, I will need to take a close look at Sturn’s PDF before I can say much more on the topic.

So whats the consensus then? Is there a serious discrepancy in the RAW where communications is concerned and a house rule a must?

Here's the prime reason for my want of a house rule:

• Core (AoR pg. 239) "Standard comms are subspace transceivers with a range equal to that of the vehicle's sensors".
• Core (AoR pg. 282) Imperial-class Star Destroyer Sensor Range: Long. Price: 150,000,000 credits. (one example)
• Core (AoR pg. 253) "long range can be up to several thousand kilometers".
• Suns of Fortune (pg. 100) "Long-Range Transceiver.....this one able to transmit up to 100 light years". Price: 1,000 credits.

That's the main offender that forces a house rule for me. Below are just things that I think are better if changed, but in no way required.

This one is minor, but it shows some inconsistency between books (imho):

• Core (AoR pg. 194) "Using a com scrambler adds (2 setback) to any checks made to decode..." Price: 1,000.
• Suns of Fortune (pg. 100) "encryption module...attempts to decode...are Formidable (5 difficulty). Price: 1,250.
• My rhetoric : One adds 2 setback, other sets a difficulty very high. Both encode and are priced almost the same. For consistency, it makes more sense to have both add setbacks to a default decode check or both designate a difficulty level to decode.

Finally, this one isn't a problem, but I don't think it was well thought out:

• Desperate Allies (pg. 65): "No one...can detect transmissions sent from a ship with this attachment without a Hard Computers check. (Also) Upgrade the difficulty of any checks to intercept..."
• My rehtoric : We also have com scramblers forcing a roll to decode encrypted messages. So, a PC hoping to catch and listen to a secret Imperial message sits down at a comms station with RAW implying three seperate rolls for Detection (there's something out there), Interception (I was able to receive it), and Decoding (I broke the code). Three seperate rolls in a row all using Computers (probably). Detection and Interception should be one roll in my opinion. Add a second roll only if the message is encrypted and you don't have the key.

Just want to add that holonet transceivers are important in the tarkin novel, so apart from it being a very good book (strictly my opinion) there is another reason to check it out if you have the time. Mind that the book is set between ep. 3 and 4, which might be important technology-wise.

My rehtoric : We also have com scramblers forcing a roll to decode encrypted messages. So, a PC hoping to catch and listen to a secret Imperial message sits down at a comms station with RAW implying three seperate rolls for Detection (there's something out there), Interception (I was able to receive it), and Decoding (I broke the code). Three seperate rolls in a row all using Computers (probably). Detection and Interception should be one roll in my opinion. Add a second roll only if the message is encrypted and you don't have the key.

It all depends on how you want to flavor it. In the real world, there is encryption, encoding, and transmission.

Encryption is taking a plain-text message of some form and turning it into what appears to be digital gibberish. So, that might take the string "Mary had a little lamb” and turn that into the string “4a856d9d7ade0272346a5200244ee925”. That’s hard to decrypt, unless you’ve got the key and you know the encryption algorithm that was used.

Encoding is using a pre-assigned method of determining what the “plaintext” is that gets put into the later stages. So, maybe sending the message “Mary had a little lamb” is telling someone when and where to go do some action, but if you don’t know what codebook that is derived from, then all you might know is that they sent the string “Mary had a little lamb”.

Obviously, you can take encoded messages and then encrypt them, and it becomes doubly hard for the attackers to figure out what’s going on.

In WWII, the allies had managed to acquire various different copies of German codebooks for their armed forces, but what we struggled with was their encryption systems — that was Enigma. For the Japanese, we applied the same kinds of methods that could be used to crack Enigma, and then discovered that we were stymied by their code system.

Many people confuse encoding and encryption, and many people use the term “decoding” to mean the act of reversing both types of processes.

Transmission is taking the message and figuring out how you’re going to send it. Maybe it’s the first letter of every word in an advertisement that gets printed on page 43 of the London Times. That would be a form of Steganography.

If you were going to use radio signals, you might chop up a given range of frequencies into a number of channels, and then use a particular pattern of transmitting certain parts of the information on some channels and certain other parts on other channels. That could be a form of spread-spectrum transmission.

But the key here is that if you can’t detect or intercept the message being transmitted, then you have no opportunity to decode or decrypt it. And if you do manage to throw your net wide enough to potentially catch it, can you tell what it is that you’ve got while that information could still be useful?

You could apply these same real-world concepts to SWRPG.

For me, I would call a scrambler as a simple type of encryption system, and thus two setback dice would be totally appropriate. But a proper encryption system could be extremely hard to crack.

I would also add that a scrambler might be able to be easily added to certain types of technological devices, but not feasible to add to others. And there might be other systems out there where you could layer an encryption system on top of it, or integrate one into the system, but not feasible to do for others.

So, maybe comlinks can only have scramblers, and holonet transceivers can only have encryption modules.

Maybe scramblers are simpler to hide and more robust in the face of accidental or intentional damage, while encryption modules might be larger and/or more fragile.

Maybe scramblers are easy to find/buy most anywhere in the galaxy, and maybe even easier to make for certain types of people with certain types of skills.

Maybe encryption modules are hard to find/buy/make, although not necessarily extremely expensive once you find the right source.

It all depends on how you want to flavor it. In the real world, there is encryption, encoding, and transmission.

I'm completely fine with these being distinct tasks in the real world. My complaint is my players might be forced to make 3 rolls in a row with the same skill for what in the end would be one goal - reading a message. Several checks for a complex task is fine for me especially when each step uses a different skill. But dividing detection and interception into two different rolls that have the same objective and same skill need goes against this narrative system (imho). With narrative, detecting then receiving the message I think should be one roll. If it happens to be encoded, makes sense to add a second. That way you can (in-game) be left with an encoded message you caught placed on a data cylinder as you try to find someone who can crack the code. That's fun. But, imagine a player's joy at detecting a message coming from the imperial base, but failing at the next "interception" check?

I might try this. This could help with one of the issues I've been contemplating. I rambled sorry.....

In RAW you've got an Encryption Array vehicle attachment costing 6,000 and 1 hard point that encodes your messages. You also have a Com Scrambler that does the same thing, but not as well? You can't really know for sure with RAW since the encryption module states the difficulty of the check to decode while the com scrambler says it adds setback. To what difficulty check? Com Scrambler costs 1,000 and is highly portable. RAW also has a portable 100 light year transceiver it can be attached to for 1,000 credits. For 2,000 credits you get a portable device that can send encoded messages 100 light years. That versus spending 6,000 credits and a hard point so your transport's comms can send encoded messages a few dozen kilometers.

Why does the encryption module even exist if for 1/3 the price and no hard point loss you can do it extremely better (range wise) by setting up the two items above in your ship's galley? And if needs be you can take it with your landing party while the ship comms and encryption array must stay aboard ship. One of the issues (range) can be solved by implementing a new range scale for vehicle comms. But the greater price and hard point cost still makes the encryption module un-buyable since there is still a much better option.

Thus, I've been battling with how to make the attachment actually worth considering. Saying it may only be attached to comlinks is one option. My house rules interpret any vehicle comms of Close or Short range as short and long-ranged comlinks respectively. Medium+ range vehicle comms are considered transceivers. So perhaps you must use an encryption module with Medium+ sensors since the basic comLINK scrambler won't work.

Thanks for the input/idea.

To me, one roll to decrypt and decode is fine. For routine communications, I wouldn't even require a roll to "transmit".

To me, one roll to decrypt and decode is fine. For routine communications, I wouldn't even require a roll to "transmit".

Yes I agree normal communications should be a Simple (default no roll) check,

But, imagine a player's joy at detecting a message coming from the imperial base, but failing at the next "interception" check?

I can certainly see detection and interception being a single check, and then decoding/decrypting being a second check. And I could see good reasons why those should actually be handled by separate skills, or at least optionally handled by separate skills.

But, imagine a player's joy at detecting a message coming from the imperial base, but failing at the next "interception" check?

I can certainly see detection and interception being a single check, and then decoding/decrypting being a second check. And I could see good reasons why those should actually be handled by separate skills, or at least optionally handled by separate skills.

I think it also depends on the importance of the event to the story, the PC's focus, and several other factors.

Thanks Brad I've just completed going over what I'm working on and made several tweaks to my notes on RAW Gear/Attachments that allows nearly all of them to remain as written, just with added explanation (not a house rule).

Thanks Brad I've just completed going over what I'm working on and made several tweaks to my notes on RAW Gear/Attachments that allows nearly all of them to remain as written, just with added explanation (not a house rule).

I’d love to see that, if you’re going to post it somewhere. Thanks!