So this is a question me and my players have been discussing:

If you have a Force power, that has multiple examples of "Commit force die, get a constant effect", do you get all of them when you commit a Force die? My player thinks, that you have to commit a separate force die, for each effect. Meaning you could never do this unless you had a Force Rating of 2.

My opinion, is that it never says one way or the other (or if it does, we haven't been able to find it written down anywhere), and so if you have more than one commit benefit, for a single Force power, you can gain all of them if you commit just one Force die.

Is there any official ruling on this?

You can commit a force die only to a single power, not all of them.

You can commit a force die only to a single power, not all of them.

That's not what I asked. To clarify. You have ONE Force power, that has TWO different upgrades, allowing you to commit a force die to get the benefit, will committing one force die allow you to gain both benefits from the SAME Force power simultaneously.

You can commit a force die only to a single power, not all of them.

That's not what I asked. To clarify. You have ONE Force power, that has TWO different upgrades, allowing you to commit a force die to get the benefit, will committing one force die allow you to gain both benefits from the SAME Force power simultaneously.

My answer still stands. You can only commit one Force Die to the specific aspect of the power. No, you can't power two effects from the same power with a single Force Die.

Lets use Sense as an example. You can commit a force die (with the correct upgrades). For each force die committed you may choose to make it harder to hit you or easier to hit your opponent.

Committing a single dice does not affect both attack and defence.

Multiple Force Dice can be committed to each effect too. So if you have FR 2 then 2 Force Dice could be committed to Defence, or 2 could be Committed to Attack, or 1 committed to each.

Each individual Force Dice must be committed as a seperat action too.

If the effects both came from a single committed dice the wording of the Attack Commit would be something like "when a dice has been committed you also gain an equal number of upgrades to attacks you make"

Sense is really the only power with two Control upgrades that achieve different effects through committing Force die. Several others have a Duration upgrade that allows for committing Force dice, but all of those read "after successfully activating the basic power." It was cleared up in the recent Order 66 episode that you can trigger both of those effects (a Control and a Duration) simultaneously, referencing Suppress.

Multiple Force Dice can be committed to each effect too. So if you have FR 2 then 2 Force Dice could be committed to Defence, or 2 could be Committed to Attack, or 1 committed to each.

Actually, powers will either call for a set number of Force dice, or one or more. Sense only calls for one, and the upgrades cannot be triggered more than once, so adding more than one is superfluous.

Multiple Force Dice can be committed to each effect too. So if you have FR 2 then 2 Force Dice could be committed to Defence, or 2 could be Committed to Attack, or 1 committed to each.

Actually, powers will either call for a set number of Force dice, or one or more. Sense only calls for one, and the upgrades cannot be triggered more than once, so adding more than one is superfluous.

I may be remembering wrong but I thought this was discussed a while ago on The Order 66. I'll see if I can find it. My memory is that a dev said if each could only be used once then it would have been called out in the descriptions.

You can have 1 Dice committed to Sense Defence and use another for the Sense basic power, commuting doesn't lock out the entire Force Power.

I thought you were talking about committing two or more to a single upgrade (such as the defensive upgrade), which would be pointless, as the effect doesn't stack. But if you were getting at committing two for the two different effects, then yeah. That would mean a character spending two consecutive actions to commit, and two consecutive actions to remove the effect.

I did mean committing 2 FD to the same commit upgrade (Defence is the only beneficial one) to be able to trigger the effect more often in a round.

So a single committed dice to the first control upgrade (without any other upgrades) allows the character to upgrade a single attack that targets that character by 1 each round.

If 2 dice are committed (2 actions taken) and no further upgrades purchased then the character could upgrade 2 attacks by 1 each round.

So the character who has all the upgrades and committed 2 dice to defence could Upgrade 4 attacks against them by 2 each round.

The upgrade cannot be activated more than once, so I'd think that you couldn't.

The upgrade cannot be activated more than once, so I'd think that you couldn't.

It can't be activated on the same attack more than once, but on seperate attacks?

"Control Upgrade: The user gains the ability to sense danger the moment before it strikes, allowing him to anticipate attacks and avoid incoming blows. This power gains the ongoing effect: Commit [FD]. Once per round, when an attack targets the Force user, he upgrades the difficulty of the pool once. The user may not activate this multiple times."

Force and Destiny p. 305.

My take is one activation only for this ability, but it doesn't rule out triggering both this and the attack upgrade.

Your absolutely right. I'm barking up the wrong tree for sure. It's the Enhance power that allows more than 1 Dice to a single Commit Control, not sense. Sorry for that.

So you may commit no more than 1 Force Dice to offence and no more than 1 to Defence. But both can be done at the same time (takes 2 actions).

Seek also has some combat-relevant Force Dice commits.

A duration commit allows the character to commit one die to continue tracking a target even if it moves. I'm not sure how that interacts with the Control upgrade that allows the character to track an additional target.

A control commit allows the character to commit one die to upgrade Vigilance and Perception checks once (useful for initiative).

Finally, a control commit allows the character to commit three dice to give all of the character's attacks Pierce equal to his Cunning + Perception.

Utilizing all of them at the same time would require three actions and a Force Rating of at least 5.

Sense is really the only power with two Control upgrades that achieve different effects through committing Force die. Several others have a Duration upgrade that allows for committing Force dice, but all of those read "after successfully activating the basic power." It was cleared up in the recent Order 66 episode that you can trigger both of those effects (a Control and a Duration) simultaneously, referencing Suppress.

Multiple Force Dice can be committed to each effect too. So if you have FR 2 then 2 Force Dice could be committed to Defence, or 2 could be Committed to Attack, or 1 committed to each.

Actually, powers will either call for a set number of Force dice, or one or more. Sense only calls for one, and the upgrades cannot be triggered more than once, so adding more than one is superfluous.

Actually I have a question about the subject of that Order 66 discussion, I've listened to it multiple times, and I don't understand what they were saying in relation to the power. Could you elaborate a bit more on the two different ways regarding Suppress can be committed?

So i hope i have my head straight today, but here is the explanation:

Duration upgrade:

After successfully activating the power you may choose to commit 1 Force Die to maintain the effects of that activation (including all upgrades such as Strength and Range you activated) indefinitely (typically end of the encounter). this is done as part of the same Action used to activate the Force Power.

Control Upgrade:

As a seperate Action (activating the basic effect does not happen in this case) you may commit any number of available Force Dice. Later whenever your targeted by a Force power you reduce the total number of Force Pips generated on the roll to activate that Force Power by 1 per Committed Force Die.

hope that helps

So i hope i have my head straight today, but here is the explanation:

Duration upgrade:

After successfully activating the power you may choose to commit 1 Force Die to maintain the effects of that activation (including all upgrades such as Strength and Range you activated) indefinitely (typically end of the encounter). this is done as part of the same Action used to activate the Force Power.

Control Upgrade:

As a seperate Action (activating the basic effect does not happen in this case) you may commit any number of available Force Dice. Later whenever your targeted by a Force power you reduce the total number of Force Pips generated on the roll to activate that Force Power by 1 per Committed Force Die.

hope that helps

Yeah that makes sense now that I've seen it actually typed out, instead of hearing them discuss it on the podcast. Thanks.

Quick clarification on removing the effect: un-committing Force Dice requires an incidental, not an action! It's only an action to activate the power, not to deactivate it

Quick clarification on removing the effect: un-committing Force Dice requires an incidental, not an action! It's only an action to activate the power, not to deactivate it

F&D p.282 : A character may end an ongoing effect at the end of any of his subsequent turns as an incidental.

So you can't un-commit a Force Dice at anytime, only at the end of your turn....

Quick clarification on removing the effect: un-committing Force Dice requires an incidental, not an action! It's only an action to activate the power, not to deactivate it

F&D p.282 : A character may end an ongoing effect at the end of any of his subsequent turns as an incidental.

So you can't un-commit a Force Dice at anytime, only at the end of your turn....

Eh, honestly I personally don't have an issue if they declare it whenever. It's their beneficial power that they are now turning off, and thus no longer gaining the benefit of it. If they do it midway through the initiative roster, instead of the end of their turn, the only person it effects is them really, or perhaps a party member if we're talking about something like Battle Meditation.

Quick clarification on removing the effect: un-committing Force Dice requires an incidental, not an action! It's only an action to activate the power, not to deactivate it

F&D p.282 : A character may end an ongoing effect at the end of any of his subsequent turns as an incidental.

So you can't un-commit a Force Dice at anytime, only at the end of your turn....

Eh, honestly I personally don't have an issue if they declare it whenever. It's their beneficial power that they are now turning off, and thus no longer gaining the benefit of it. If they do it midway through the initiative roster, instead of the end of their turn, the only person it effects is them really, or perhaps a party member if we're talking about something like Battle Meditation.

I think the intention is to make that Force Dice unavailable for at least a single round after they commit it. but its fairly minor sure.

Quick clarification on removing the effect: un-committing Force Dice requires an incidental, not an action! It's only an action to activate the power, not to deactivate it

F&D p.282 : A character may end an ongoing effect at the end of any of his subsequent turns as an incidental.

So you can't un-commit a Force Dice at anytime, only at the end of your turn....

Eh, honestly I personally don't have an issue if they declare it whenever. It's their beneficial power that they are now turning off, and thus no longer gaining the benefit of it. If they do it midway through the initiative roster, instead of the end of their turn, the only person it effects is them really, or perhaps a party member if we're talking about something like Battle Meditation.

I think the intention is to make that Force Dice unavailable for at least a single round after they commit it. but its fairly minor sure.

True, but if they have already had their turn, I'm not sure how having the unspent force die would matter? I mean they can't use it again in any fashion until their next turn anyway, so the only net result of this is they might have the benefit of the commit for half the round, instead of the entire thing. Which is ultimately not a benefit to the player. Is there some power that I'm not aware of, or talent that specifically targets "unspent/uncommitted Force die" ? If so, then yeah ok, there would be farther reaching effects, but if not, I'm not sure how this is anything other than not in the players best interest to do.

"I want to turn off my Sense benefit for combat this round!"

"...you sure? I mean, there's still 2 more NPC actions to go before we reset to the start. You could just leave it running and suffer no ill effects, and can turn it off later when we reset"

"Yep! I no longer want it to benefit me!"

"...okie dokie!" Have minions pepper him with holes.

Its so that during the initiative slot immediately before their going to act they cant say "i un-commit my dice".

The reason this matters is that when a dice is committed it reduces the number of dice you have available to perform other force powers. Your force rating is technically reduced by the number of dice you have committed, althoug even if all your dice are committed you still count as force sensitive for the purpose of Force Talents and such. Its to make it so you must act with a reduced Force Rating for at east 1 action and prevent you gaining the benefits without suffering the consequences of a reduced Force Rating.

So essentially, if you start your turn with a Force Die committed to an ongoing effect, it must remain committed until you're done with your turn.

This is important also because there are talents that allow you to commit Force Dice, and these often come with a price (like strain suffered for every round that the Force die remains committed). It's a balancing thing, so that players can't juggle their Force Rating around. The Force is already powerful enough without players trying to game/milk it

If you've got some defensive upgrade going, you'd be best served by deactivating it at the end of the current initiative order (getting all the benefit you can from it), and then taking the first turn in the new round so that you can put that Force Die to use.

Been reading your comments here on committing dice to a power and un-committing them and i got confused.

Why can you only commit 1 die every action? what about powers such as Misdirect which require 2 committed dice to prolong the effect?

Does that mean i need to activate the power once and commit one die, then next action commit another?

what about powers such as bind who require 3 committed dice? Do you need 1 action to commit then 2 more later or just 1 more?

Or are you guys completely wrong about it and you commit as much as you want to the same power once it activated successfully?

Edit: After checking in the core book it doesn't state you need multiple actions to commit a number of dice, you simply choose how many you want and that's it. So i think you are wrong about needing more than 1 action to commit a number of force dice. You do need more than 1 if you activate different powers and commit their upgrades but i think ( a guess here) that you can at the same time commit for 2 different effects if they are under the same tree.

Meaning, you activate enhanced and committed 1 die for Agility and 1 die for Brawn.