Hello!

I posted the same thing on the Board Game Geek forums, so forgive me if anyone has seen this twice. And sorry I'm late to the game if this topic has been discussed a lot already.

So to start off, I'm still very new to the game. But one of my favorite parts so far are the squadrons. I really enjoy painting them, especially the rebels. I've had a lot of inspiration from the people posted their pictures here. At some point I will have to post them also.

So, when I look at building a fleet that I might play against actual opponents (not just my friends who I convince to pay a casual game), I'd like to make a rebel list with heavy squadrons. But browsing this forum and the FF forum, it seems that the real squadron build gem is some variation on a Rhymer Ball. So my question is, do the rebels have a serious counterpart to this? I have heard of Jan Ors with X-wings, and Reeikan fleets, but is that about it? Neither seem as powerful as the terrifying Rhymer Ball. At BBG some people recommended something with Gallant Haven or Yavaris, but Yavaris seems to fragile and one would really have to keep Gallant Haven close for it do to anything.

Still very much learning the game, but I would love to hear peoples experiences with rebel squadron heavy fleets. Thanks!

I like a "Rogue Squadron" build. Luke, Wedge, Tycho, Dutch, Han, and a generic Hawk. Comes to 109 pts, run Rieken as your Admiral. Mon Cal Command, Neb-b Yavaris, third ship of your choice & upgrade to taste.

For a minimal fighter build Jan and some X-wings and maybe an A-wing or two to lead the way works well for almost any list.

A nasty Wave 1 staple of some of my opponents was Flight Controller, Y-wing spam with an X-wing or two. Throw in a Hawk or Jan, probably would still work.

Heavy B-wing is devastating but very hard to fly.

For ships you want a MC-80 and (or strictly) Assault Frigate-Bs to form your fleets core.

I won a Vassal Tournament and a Store Championship with versions of the following:

MC80 Command Cruiser
-Garm
-Independence
-ECM
-Boosted Comms

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate
-Yavaris

Nebulon-B Support Frigate
-Salvation
-Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

4 B-Wings
3 X-Wings
Jan Ors

Advanced Gunnery
Hyperspace Assault
Superior Positions

391/400

The Yavaris double tap with B-Wings is incredible. Independence is there to be the B-Wings into position. The X-Wings and Jan ensure freedom of movement. I don't typically win the squadron dogfight, but it rarely matters. If the B-Wings get free for 1-2 double taps on capital ships, it's usually enough to swing the game.

I won a Vassal Tournament and a Store Championship with versions of the following:

MC80 Command Cruiser

-Garm

-Independence

-ECM

-Boosted Comms

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

-Yavaris

Nebulon-B Support Frigate

-Salvation

-Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

4 B-Wings

3 X-Wings

Jan Ors

Advanced Gunnery

Hyperspace Assault

Superior Positions

391/400

The Yavaris double tap with B-Wings is incredible. Independence is there to be the B-Wings into position. The X-Wings and Jan ensure freedom of movement. I don't typically win the squadron dogfight, but it rarely matters. If the B-Wings get free for 1-2 double taps on capital ships, it's usually enough to swing the game.

My squadron is similar:

-Jan

-4x B-Wings (Keyan if I can afford it as one of them)

-2x YT-1300s as escorts for Jan and the Bs

-1x YT-2400 (two if I can afford it without Keyan)--this is my utility guy since otherwise my squadrons are slower than molasses

This build, especially with Yavaris and Adar, took down 2 VSDs and an ISD in three rounds of fighting.

An Independence and Yavaris backing them up, and a CR-90A with Tantive/Antilles to help with command token support.

Rebel squadrons are very viable, and you have many builds to choose from. Because the rebel fighters are multirole units, and thus don't depend as much on "synergies" as the Imperials, you can fly almost anything and make it work. It'll take some practice of course, like anything, but fly what you like and have fun!

I came in second in a tourney flying 2 AF's with flight controllers, Ackbar, an MC30, 4 X's, 3 Y's, 2 A's, and a HWK. Fun list that really dominated the squadron battles and was still a credible anti ship threat.

I won a Vassal Tournament and a Store Championship with versions of the following:

MC80 Command Cruiser

-Garm

-Independence

-ECM

-Boosted Comms

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

-Yavaris

Nebulon-B Support Frigate

-Salvation

-Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

4 B-Wings

3 X-Wings

Jan Ors

Advanced Gunnery

Hyperspace Assault

Superior Positions

391/400

The Yavaris double tap with B-Wings is incredible. Independence is there to be the B-Wings into position. The X-Wings and Jan ensure freedom of movement. I don't typically win the squadron dogfight, but it rarely matters. If the B-Wings get free for 1-2 double taps on capital ships, it's usually enough to swing the game.

Im curious at how you manage to land the double taps effecively with such a low initiative bid?

I would think if your opponent is going first it would be very easy for them to Stay our of range of the B-Wings or to Lock the majority of them down with first activation? I have never faced this particular combo so Im sure i am missing something here but if you move them into position with a turn one squadron command towards your priority target, Unless your enemy just oblidges you by moving straight into the range 2 danger zone of the B wings, or sits patiently waiting to be hammered , that you would have difficulty getting the activation with them already sitting that close to an enemy key target on turn 2 or 3?

I use a Rhymer ball Imperial List and I find myself needing that Range extension very often even with Rogue and Speed 3 to help me land shots on enemy fast movers. Obviously you have had success so im not doubting you, just curious how you deal with not having first move?

Im curious at how you manage to land the double taps effecively with such a low initiative bid?

I would think if your opponent is going first it would be very easy for them to Stay our of range of the B-Wings or to Lock the majority of them down with first activation? I have never faced this particular combo so Im sure i am missing something here but if you move them into position with a turn one squadron command towards your priority target, Unless your enemy just oblidges you by moving straight into the range 2 danger zone of the B wings, or sits patiently waiting to be hammered , that you would have difficulty getting the activation with them already sitting that close to an enemy key target on turn 2 or 3?

I use a Rhymer ball Imperial List and I find myself needing that Range extension very often even with Rogue and Speed 3 to help me land shots on enemy fast movers. Obviously you have had success so im not doubting you, just curious how you deal with not having first move?

Not to steal my Vassal team leader's thunder, but I'll take a stab at a quick answer. I'm sure Truthiness will have much more to say...and more eloquently too.

The bid...well, I think that's very variable depending on your area. Around my area, 391 would count as a very high bid, almost guaranteed to give you the choice of activation. In other areas, not so much, apparently. Still, being second is manageable, maybe even preferable, because....

...Independence! Lets your B-wings move at speed 4. And with being second player, you can let the enemy ships come to you. Assuming you've deployed correctly, you want the enemy to move into the net of B-wings you've laid in his path...ideally with Yavaris to back them up so on their turn they can double tap the ship that's just moved into their range.

Tricky to pull off, but practice really pays with squadron builds like this!

Im curious at how you manage to land the double taps effecively with such a low initiative bid?

I would think if your opponent is going first it would be very easy for them to Stay our of range of the B-Wings or to Lock the majority of them down with first activation? I have never faced this particular combo so Im sure i am missing something here but if you move them into position with a turn one squadron command towards your priority target, Unless your enemy just oblidges you by moving straight into the range 2 danger zone of the B wings, or sits patiently waiting to be hammered , that you would have difficulty getting the activation with them already sitting that close to an enemy key target on turn 2 or 3?

I use a Rhymer ball Imperial List and I find myself needing that Range extension very often even with Rogue and Speed 3 to help me land shots on enemy fast movers. Obviously you have had success so im not doubting you, just curious how you deal with not having first move?

Good lord, if a 9 point bid is "low" in your neck of the woods, remind me never to travel there. I was first player in every game of those wins. That said, first or second player doesn't matter all that much to the build. With bids getting to a ridiculous level lately, I've started to pivot toward Rieekan (and a slightly different squadron mix) and no bid. The principles have remained the same. Independence allows the B-Wings to get out ahead of whatever target I need. You'd be amazed how little room ships actually have to maneuver. Someone did an analysis a while back, but against every medium and large ship in the game, a properly placed squadron will always be in range even if that ship executes a navigate command. It's all about practice. I failed with B-Wings A LOT before I finally got them working. Now I can reliably place them to target even speed demons like the CR90 and the Raider. You also don't always need the double taps. Yavaris is just a nice bonus. Even a single tap from a B-Wing is extremely dangerous.

You have to be patient with Bs. Create an Engagement Area and make the enemy come to you. If you try to alpha strike them too early, you'll get out of the command range of your carrier (even with EC) and they are effectively out of the battle.

Im curious at how you manage to land the double taps effecively with such a low initiative bid?

I would think if your opponent is going first it would be very easy for them to Stay our of range of the B-Wings or to Lock the majority of them down with first activation? I have never faced this particular combo so Im sure i am missing something here but if you move them into position with a turn one squadron command towards your priority target, Unless your enemy just oblidges you by moving straight into the range 2 danger zone of the B wings, or sits patiently waiting to be hammered , that you would have difficulty getting the activation with them already sitting that close to an enemy key target on turn 2 or 3?

I use a Rhymer ball Imperial List and I find myself needing that Range extension very often even with Rogue and Speed 3 to help me land shots on enemy fast movers. Obviously you have had success so im not doubting you, just curious how you deal with not having first move?

. You'd be amazed how little room ships actually have to maneuver. Someone did an analysis a while back, but against every medium and large ship in the game, a properly placed squadron will always be in range even if that ship executes a navigate command. It's all about practice. I failed with B-Wings A LOT before I finally got them working. Now I can reliably place them to target even speed demons like the CR90 and the Raider. You also don't always need the double taps. Yavaris is just a nice bonus. Even a single tap from a B-Wing is extremely dangerous.

I had an opponent's VSD about to enter my B-swarm and was ready to take him down in one turn. Then he Ozzeled to 0, I had the rest of my fleet going the right way, and he sat there just outside of B-Wing range and survived. It was a brilliant move.

Good lord, if a 9 point bid is "low" in your neck of the woods, remind me never to travel there. I was first player in every game of those wins.

I've started to pivot toward Rieekan (and a slightly different squadron mix) and no bid.

Bids are getting low in my area as people realize that going 1st is such a huge advantage these days especially if you have or are fighting Demolishers or MC-30s. I have reworked my current build with a 12 point initiative bid and Rieekan so I can guarantee that my ships activate.

Thanks for the answer and I misread your list ( bad eyes) I thought it was 397, not 391. That would be a middle of the road bid around here recently, mainly because of the increasing popularity of high activation count small ship swarms (thanks to the vassal tournament winners 1xGlad 4x Raider list.)

I dont know that I would try that myself, it still seems like a very risky strategy but this thread will help me a lot in the event I have see a force like this at Regionals.

I had success in Indy last weekend with a Yavaris + Dutch, Dash, Jan + 3X anti-squadron force.

In all 5 games I was able to systematically disable the opposing squadron force, the most robust of which was an opposing Yavaris, Dutch, Jan, 3B, 2X, Y, Adar Tallon squadron setup. Including the double/triple activations it was the equivalent of my 9 squadrons vs his 11 if everyone was able to be utilized fully.

Going first with a dutch double tap makes opposing squadrons sad. Dash double tapping means you can expect to land 6-7 damage with his activation. Jan keeps people alive, and X's double tapping isn't anything to sneeze at. Doing a last-first with Yavaris allows for some devastating ripple fire as one set of squadrons double taps and the next set moves up during the squadron phase and then double taps the next turn. That 2 round set of ripple fire + yavaris's 2 anti squadron dice took out probably 5 or 6 squadrons.

Thanks everyone! This is super helpful. So far I have an MC-80, and I was planning on getting the Assault Frigate soon, but this has definitely convinced me it's a good choice for squadron heavy stuff. Also another Nebulon B seems to be in order soon. And it's an excuse to buy another fighter pack, which is fine with me as I love painting them.

I still have a lot of experimenting of my own to do, but it's good to know there are a wide variety of rebel fighter builds that are competitive.

Sounds like Garm may be the best for the rebel squadron heavy list?

Garm gives you the biggest overt boost to the Squadron Game, onlyby virtue of the fact that the other Fleet Commander options don't directly effect squadrons*.

Garm lets you bank the Squadron Token right off the bat turn 1 and 5, which us good for both early and late game planning. But that's it. His Tokens can easily be used on the other orders rather than including a Squadron, but that is the only time its directly on a squadron.

*There is some call that Dodonna is also a squadron booster, but I prefer to see Dodonna as a damage booster who cares not from where the blood flows... Only that it Flows...

Garm gives you the biggest overt boost to the Squadron Game, onlyby virtue of the fact that the other Fleet Commander options don't directly effect squadrons*.

Garm lets you bank the Squadron Token right off the bat turn 1 and 5, which us good for both early and late game planning. But that's it. His Tokens can easily be used on the other orders rather than including a Squadron, but that is the only time its directly on a squadron.

*There is some call that Dodonna is also a squadron booster, but I prefer to see Dodonna as a damage booster who cares not from where the blood flows... Only that it Flows...

Rieekan directly benefits named squadrons.

Garm gives you the biggest overt boost to the Squadron Game, onlyby virtue of the fact that the other Fleet Commander options don't directly effect squadrons*.

Garm lets you bank the Squadron Token right off the bat turn 1 and 5, which us good for both early and late game planning. But that's it. His Tokens can easily be used on the other orders rather than including a Squadron, but that is the only time its directly on a squadron.

*There is some call that Dodonna is also a squadron booster, but I prefer to see Dodonna as a damage booster who cares not from where the blood flows... Only that it Flows...

Rieekan directly benefits named squadrons.

And Dodonna directly benefits Bomber squadrons...

Both Rieekan and Dodonna only effect Subsets of the Entire squadron Genre...

Hence, the "Belief" is that only "Garm" is a Squadron Commander, because his ability has the potential to assist all squadrons.

... I'm not saying this is my belief. Only what seems to be stated as a collective belief in previous postings on that very subject.

Garm doesnt benedit rogue builds if you arebeing picky

Garm doesnt benedit rogue builds if you arebeing picky

But he can. Even Rogues can use squadron commands, if you're being really picky...

(And I totally assume now that someone will come and show us the way to be really, really picky! )

Garm's use as a squadron commander goes well beyond the extra squadron token. That's nothing. It's the flexibility that the other tokens allow. It makes it much easier to spam squadron commands when you're got a banked repair token to move some shields and/or a banked nav token to adjust speed.

Truthiness really does hit it there...

If anyone was going to be considered a "Squadron Commander", or even a "Squadron Centric" commander, it is Garm...

But even that is trying to shoehorn the Commander of Ultimate Flexibility into a Role which is limited, and thus, inflexible

I'm surprised that no one suggested the 3 AF 12 Y wing build yet

Truthiness really does hit it there...

If anyone was going to be considered a "Squadron Commander", or even a "Squadron Centric" commander, it is Garm...

But even that is trying to shoehorn the Commander of Ultimate Flexibility into a Role which is limited, and thus, inflexible

Exactly. I'd call him a squadron-friendly commander rather than a squadron commander. Plain and simply, there are no squadron commanders at the moment. Rieekan and Garm are the most squadron-friendly, but they have such great use outside of squadrons that it's silly to shoehorn them.

I'm surprised that no one suggested the 3 AF 12 Y wing build yet

I was just visiting to mention spam ruthless strategist Y wings

I'm surprised that no one suggested the 3 AF 12 Y wing build yet

I was just visiting to mention spam ruthless strategist Y wings

I find myself rarely taking the anti-squadron shots necessary to do this because the squadron dogfight is happening in the same arc as an enemy capital ship. The only time I usually take an anti-squadron shot over a ship shot is with a Neb-B Escort, which obviously can't have ruthless strategists. I usually go for flight controllers in the same slot.