What do wood elves truly think of high elves?

jh

That they are traitors for abandoning the Old World and fleeing to Ultuhan, mainly. Also, that they are too, hmm, can't find the word right now ... civilized I guess, having lost their connection to the world itself and concerning themselves more with culture, knowledge, and a sense of their own superiority.

Wood Elves think High Elves are a bunch of arrogant yuppies, and High Elves think Wood Elves are a bunch of arrogant hippies.

The rest just think both are arrogant...

You see, High elves walk like this: "Dee-dee deep dedeee", all stiff legged and constrained, while WOOD elves are all like: "Dooooop de doooop awwww yeeeaahhhh". They're much more groovy for pointy eared crackers.

"We have lived in these forrests ever since the Great Departion. It was a time of grief and sorrow, as many of our beloved brethern left us behind. We did not heed the call of the Phoenix King to return home and abandon the Old World. You see for us the forrest of Athel Loren IS our home. Only the grace of our kind have avoided this to turn into something more than a time of shame and separation. Both High-elfs and Wood-elfs are kindred although our ways have changed.

The return of the High-elfs will create a new tension of this old schism, and I wonder who is more eqquiped to suffer the strains. We Wood-elfs are not rooted in our history, we change and bend like the grass in the wind, not like the tall oak that breaks. The High-elfs steeped in ancient tradition and culture of the Mythic island of Ultlhuan I fear will suffer more of this reunion. is it not you humans that says it takes stamina to survive a family reunion? Well imaginate our "family" reunion, after been separated for thousands of years. Its bound to be some tension"

unknown "wiseguy" woodelf. (or how I would picture an elf npc would explain things to human PCs)

Mal Reynolds said:

I have to say that this description sound kind of... Whimpy.

It's not your fault of course, and it is probably fitting with the setting. It's just that im used to fantasy settings where the elves are basically racist bastards who would put Adolf Hitler to shame in terms of being hateful and bigot against their "rival" elf races.

Of course, it's not the reason why I dislike elves in general (racist bastards can be fun sometimes), it's just that everything elves are and do is always so unnaturally perfect.

Varnias Tybalt said:

I know what you mean, as a player I never play elfs, as a GM however I must relate to elfs. And in that sense I have learned a bit how to play warhammer elfs. You said "unnaturally perfect" and lets use that term.

Now imagine an elf making an bow "unnaturally perfect" thats easy to imagine. Now do same when an elf-kithband goes on a slaughter rampage, doing it "unaturally perfect", now that sends chills down my spine. Go even further if you like, when assaulting a human camp of woodcutters, that have captured an elf-maid. One way of using elfs is to portray the extremes of behaviour. an Elf don`t loose his temper, he`s to cool and aloof for that. But when he does it will be unatural and terrifying.

Perfection of elfs is in the eyes of humans, but they too have flaws, they just hide them better. Rasicme is happening in the Old world on a daily basis, between the social classes, cults, and between the different races. Its not a good thing but makes for excellent roleplaying opportunities.

And you`re right, it was whimpy. but it was a whimpy aloof wood-elf I depicted.

Mal Reynolds said:

Sorry mate, but your talking about elves going on a slaughter rampage and doing all the killing in their standard l33t perfect way just remind me of Legolas over the top l33t stunts in the Lord of the Rings movies. The only difference is that they turn their mad l33t-skills against peasants instead of orcs or monsters, but the reminder evoke the same result in me: an elvish turn-off. And of course, this means that it doesn't send chills down my spine either, because in general I have a fetish for being scared (that's why im constantly on the lookout for horror movies and horror games, with the hope that some of them might actually scare the crap out of me like some of the Silent Hill games have done).

Oh, why must I be so desensitized?

Oh yeah The Silent Hill games where good games...and scary

I have a player in my group who plays nothing but humans, he says that he can`t relate to elfs or dwarfs so therefore he can`t ever play them.

Is that maybe your problem? is it just elfs in general you have problems with or does it involve all demi-human races. Would you play a dwarf or halfling?

Or is the fact that elfs in most fantasy setting follows the LofR principles, of being the first made and thus more perfect than humans? I think I know what you mean. I would like to see some flawed elfs in warhammer, some serious screwed up elf NPCs, that would contratict the stereotypes we have of elfs. I am all for breaking the stereotypes!

in game mechanics I don`t think they are better or more perfect in what they do, the character creation in wfrp 3 seems pretty balanced. I am guessing that the elfs would PRETEND they are better anyway . Remember first edition, an elf starting with 50+ 2D10 in Initiative, now that was unbalanced, And the elfs had all the reason to think they where superior in everything, "silly human and dwarf, why did you let yourself get hit by that falling boulder, when you could have stepped aside, liket I did?" in the new system they will have to pretend.

I think Warhammer elves (of any variety) are best viewed in context of their real-world inspirations and their in-game origins.

For the former, Dark Elves and High Elves seem to have much more in common (names aside) with Moorcock's Melniboneans; Wood Elves with medieval Norse representations of elves or forest spirits. Tolkien only seems to come into play with the physical description, names, language, and the whole "sailing west" deal.

Within context of Warhammer, elves are the first experiment of the Old Ones. They were built to be physically resistant to Chaos, but were very mentally susceptible - I think this concept is core to representing them as something interesting and unique. They're not super-special alien beings; they're the "original model" of sentient beings, with a hidden, but major flaw.

From this foundation, I think there's quite a few directions to go in that diverge from the Tolkien template.

A player in an old wh2 campaign played a screwed up elf.

He was raised by humans, and not the nice kind of caring humans, the sort that ended him up being a gambling, whoring drunken type of elf. He liked to express his nudity, because he could not express feelings in any normal way. He always found ways to make other characters uncomfterble as to not get to personal with him.

At one point he even saved the day by having sex to a slaaneshi female mutant and got damaged in the proces, so the others could find vital clues.

-

Give any of the warhammer demi-human species a f-ed up upbringing and they will by a screwed up person.

morskittar said:

That's correct. If you read the original description of the development of the Old World under the Slaan, the elves were the first sentient beings taken and placed far away from the rest of the mortal races as an experiment. They were given the ability to manipulate magic better than any other race, they were taught the secrets of Slaan civilization, and they were the first to be a real social race. The Slaan were attempting to create a race resistant to void travel, but before they could finish, the warpgates over the poles collapsed, spewing warpstone and warp dust all over the poles.

The elves suffered the least - their forms mostly stayed pure and their minds sharp, but they suffered a schism greater than any other with those that succumbed to the lure of Chaos. Thus there was a great civil war and the Dark Elves were driven into the west. What was left of the elves on their isle then returned to the Old World and interacted with the Dwarves, who had suffered more from the infusion of Chaos in the world. At some point, the elves and the dwarves then fought a giant war that decimated the powerful dwarven civilization, putting them in decline. This gave the Humans an opening to become the more dominant race in the Old World. Unfortunately, the humans are the most corruptible of the races, since they were still savages when the warpgates collapsed.

The elves then recalled their brethren still in the Old World back to their island home. Those who were stranded became the Wood Elves. They were somewhat angry and distraught that the others left them behind. Wood elves dislike the High elves because the High elves dislike them. The only reason the High Elves call themselves "high elves" is because they are the last uncorrupted, pure remains of the original elves. Everything else is basically an abomination in their eyes - even their Wood Elf brothers (who they pity). There is no real love between the two subraces, and they often fight with each other as much as they fight with Chaos.

As for being "unnaturally perfect," that depends on how you portray them in your game. Elves in my campaign suffer just as many problems as the Humans do, and since the world hates elves (for their sense of purity), they are often the first attacked/rebuked/dismissed. They also have fewer Fate points.

In order to reduce racial tension, someone should make a buddy cop movie: High Cop, Wood Cop.

Dispelling discrimination through laughter at their wacky highjinks.

morskittar said:

OOh I loved that idea of picturing the High elves as Melniboneans, a jaded culture degenerated to boredom. An amoral people bound by ancient traditions, finding no or little pleasure in whatever they do. Powerful and wielding magic with ease, yet they cannot appriciate their gifts. and High elf player characters would constantly seek out thrills to at least feel alive, going to extreme lengths if needed. showing no outward empathy, cool and aloof. If portraited that way, many a player would be surprised or even alarmed at being around high elves.

you gave me an excellent idea ther.

high cop and wood cop so who is high and who got wood? *snicker* (its cheasy I know but)

High Elf: "I don't wanna sound like a racist or nuthin', but those wood elves are real lazy workers. Seriously. But not all of them! Just in general."

Dwarf: "...that WAS totally racist! How can you say that?!"

High Elf: "Hey calm down dude! Some of my best friends are Wood Elves! Seriously! They're just... well not as good workers as us High Elves. Just sayin'...."