No, no, and no. It's been said so many times. Saga expansions are designed outside the mainframe of the game and there is no duplicate of heroes from the core set in the saga expansions, except for Fellowship heroes. No way we get a Denethor or Eowyn hero. I still could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Eomer and Imrahil t'will be. It's a possibility we get Denethor and Eowyn as allies though.

Hopefully they are not delaying Saga releases because of a near-imminent end of the game. :/

Say, for argument's sake, the Dreamcatcher cycle will be the last. Then once they're done with the LotR Sagas the game is wrapped up. In such a scenario, it behooves them to stretch out the Saga releases as much as they can, in order to keep people playing and buying. As long as something "must have" is still coming (as are the rest of the saga boxes to many players) then sales of all LotR LCG products will continue. As soon as no new releases are on the horizon, interest in the game will likely drop quickly and sales of previous APs and deluxe expansions will drop. Even though it doesn't necessarily make logical sense (you can enjoy buying packs you don't have yet, regardless of whether or not the game is still being expanded) it's just a fact of human psychology. But by keeping the Sagas strung out, people stay more emotionally invested in the game and are more likely to buy their missing packs, even if they never get the latest and newest stuff.

I have zero reason to believe the game is ending anytime soon. Just a random disturbing thought I had.

No, no, and no. It's been said so many times. Saga expansions are designed outside the mainframe of the game and there is no duplicate of heroes from the core set in the saga expansions, except for Fellowship heroes. No way we get a Denethor or Eowyn hero. I still could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Eomer and Imrahil t'will be. It's a possibility we get Denethor and Eowyn as allies though.

Up to this Point I would say this made sense, as there were many possible choices for heroes, that didn't had a hero Version of themself, but in my opinion they should break with this rule for flame of the west, as new incarnations of specific core set characters (Denethor, Eowyn) fit so PERFECT into this box.

Flame of the west:

If they decide to break this "rule" I bet on Eowyn (T) and Denethor (S or L).

If they Keep it, Imrahil (T) and Eomer (L) would be my votes

For Quests:

No way they don't do the path of the dead, so this would be NR:1

The Siege of Minas Tirith is sure to follow, so we have NR.2

Question is: Is Minas Tirith big enough of a battle to make 2 quests out of it and make the ride and attack of the rohirim and the death of the witch-king the third quest? If not, only the destruction of the corsairs could give enough "material" for another quest. I would say yes and would be very interessted how FFG combines the ride, Arrival and attack together. Only defending Minas Tirith "Helm's Deep Style" and having the last queststage be the cleanup doesn't give this battle enough credit.

​The Last Saga Box:

Heroes:

Sam (S), every Hobbit has a Spirit hero form and even though Sam gets a Spirit ally form in he near future iirc, the "willpower" sphere fits perfect for a Hobbit who is climbing Mount Doom^^

Aragorn (S) To make the Quartette complete and again it fits into the Story.

Just realised I vote for double Spirit heroes surely never going to happen... So i must be Gollum hero

Quests:

Cirith Ungol must be the first one, you can't scip that...

The Battle at the black gate and the climb of Mount doom have to be one quest, but really one, to Show how the army draws Sauron Attention and struggles to survive (what makes the Player hurry to destroy the ring), while Frodo and Sam climb the mountain.

Last one should be the scourging of the shire. It is very important for Tolkien and unlike barrow downs or the old forest gives the Story a complete new Twist

You can just cut forest and downs and nothing in the Story changes, see the movies, but by scipping the scourging the end of the Story gets a complete different Feeling; I have the Feeling that FFG won't do another pod saga quest. they just did that, because the first book had so much stuff to make a quest of they had to choose the 3 most important ​Things.

Didn't Denethor went nuts at this point? I would expect him to be an enemy, not a hero.

I hope the battle of the morannon and the destruction of the ring are in the one quest as well Calvadur

It should be like breaking of the fellowship with separate staging areas and the black gate section should be incredibly hard so that you can barely survive and are eagerly awaiting the rings destruction to end the onslaught.

There should be armoured trolls, heaps of archery, Ringwraith's (even on foot though this is somewhat unthematic) and gnarly Mordor Uruks, heavy Harad troops and Easterlings and it should just be a blood bath, the quest stage should have some horrible effect like making you discard an ally at the end of each round but doing damage to an enemy in play equal to the discarded allies attack strength. The enemies should be strong and this should only help minimally but should represent the great sacrifice and charge the Free People made at the black gate. The enemy vastly outnumbered them and many were slain but they persevered until the ring was destroyed.

I have no idea what the staging area or mechanics of the mount doom section would be though or how to represent Sam and Frodo's trek to Mount Doom, climb up it and then the final test within. Gollum would need to be an enemy at the end obviously but something other than just defense and attack should be involved.

Perhaps after you do enough damage to him he has an effect that makes him make an immediate boosted attack and take the ring attachment from Frodo, at this point perhaps there could be some cool test you have to make to see whether or not Frodo in desperation follows Gollum to his demise to try and get the ring for himself and also dies or whether he is able to resist the pull of the ring and merely watch as Gollum falls to his death.

I agree that Denethor should 100% be an enemy or even quest stage/treachery card rather than an ally or hero.

I agree with John Constantine. I could see Lore ally Denethor at most, but most definitely not as hero. Tactics Eowyn, on the other hand...

John Constantine, on 28 Feb 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

Didn't Denethor went nuts at this point? I would expect him to be an enemy, not a hero.

Yeah that's right. He might really not fit into a hero role for the box.

I wouldn't like him being an enemy though. Denethor was despared as he thought the end of mankind was sure to come and killed himself. Only "evil" Thing was he tried to burn Faramir with him. The whole "Denethor goes mad plot" seems hard to fit into the quest, as it distracts very much from the siege itself. A sidequest, which is brought into Play by revealing a specific queststage (e.g. 3A), which gives the Players an Explanation why Denethor is suddenly a danger for them and the Option to save Faramir. If you don't solve the sidequest (I would say give it time 4 or something like that) a burden should be brought into Play, which will ofc stick for the rest of the (not so Long anymore) campaign. If you solve the quest you just dodge the burden (FFG really reduced the boons you can get the further the campaign advances, just the burden can add up).

PsychoRocka, on 29 Feb 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

I hope the battle of the morannon and the destruction of the ring are in the one quest as well Calvadur

It should be like breaking of the fellowship with separate staging areas and the black gate section should be incredibly hard so that you can barely survive and are eagerly awaiting the rings destruction to end the onslaught.

There should be armoured trolls, heaps of archery, Ringwraith's (even on foot though this is somewhat unthematic) and gnarly Mordor Uruks, heavy Harad troops and Easterlings and it should just be a blood bath, the quest stage should have some horrible effect like making you discard an ally at the end of each round but doing damage to an enemy in play equal to the discarded allies attack strength. The enemies should be strong and this should only help minimally but should represent the great sacrifice and charge the Free People made at the black gate. The enemy vastly outnumbered them and many were slain but they persevered until the ring was destroyed.

I have no idea what the staging area or mechanics of the mount doom section would be though or how to represent Sam and Frodo's trek to Mount Doom, climb up it and then the final test within. Gollum would need to be an enemy at the end obviously but something other than just defense and attack should be involved.

Perhaps after you do enough damage to him he has an effect that makes him make an immediate boosted attack and take the ring attachment from Frodo, at this point perhaps there could be some cool test you have to make to see whether or not Frodo in desperation follows Gollum to his demise to try and get the ring for himself and also dies or whether he is able to resist the pull of the ring and merely watch as Gollum falls to his death.

I agree that Denethor should 100% be an enemy or even quest stage/treachery card rather than an ally or hero

That is how I want the quest to be, too.

To Show the Separation of the two parts od the quest I think the Players should split up their heroes to either Support Frodo or Aragorn (there should be Fellowship Aragorn as well as Fellowship Frodo, just for this quest). This way you would end up with 2 seperate staging Areas and both will have their own quest and Encounter decks. While the one would be a defense ala "Helms Deep" the other would be the race to the top of Mount Doom where Gollum awaits you (with all These annoying stuff you can give a character like him: undefended damage on Frodo, attacks Frodo every now and then, no attachments, indestructable) he could sit in the staging area and you would have to quest through the last stage while keeping him away from frodo, if you manage that before you loose at the other side of the table you win.

As you effectivly Play two quests in one, the campaign Card could even allow you a 4th hero just for this quest (must be alive) so every Player could have 2 heroes in each area. You would still Play with 1 deck.

So much stuff you can do for this quests, really, I am really excited how it will look like in the end. ​

While dreaming about how epic the destruction of the ring could be made, it came to my mind that it wouldn't be Fitting to Control Frodo with the ringbearer trait after this quest (he is more of a ex-ringbearer), what makes scourging of the shire interesting (if it Ends up being a quest): Do you have another Frodo? Do you have no Fellowship hero? Does FFG not care and just let's you use Frodo, who wouldn't have an ability as you can't attach the ring to him?

With all the stuff happening at the same time in the first part of ROTK, I wouldn't be surprised to see side quests (non-randomized) make a return.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. Eowyn's role in ROTK is so prominent that I'd be rather surprised if she isn't included as a hero. Yes, that totally breaks the model that the designers have set forth in the Saga boxes. They aren't in any way required to strictly adhere to that model. As has been well-noted above, there aren't many hero options in Flame of the West. Eowyn is one such option. Moreover, currently every single female hero in LOTR:LCG is either Lore or Spirit. What better time to break some molds then by giving us a Tactics or Leadership Eowyn in Flame of the West to represent her defeat of the Witch King.

This is the only book where Denethor's a main character. First as a protagonist and later as an antagonist. If he were to be included in the saga expansions, surely the flame of the west would be it. I personally hope to see a Leadership Denethor hero to strengthen the Gondorian army archetype. Though a Tactics Imrahil is intriguing and could do something similar. I just think we're more likely to get a Tactics Eowyn. Only time will tell.

I just want some news... >_>

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. Eowyn's role in ROTK is so prominent that I'd be rather surprised if she isn't included as a hero. Yes, that totally breaks the model that the designers have set forth in the Saga boxes. They aren't in any way required to strictly adhere to that model. As has been well-noted above, there aren't many hero options in Flame of the West. Eowyn is one such option. Moreover, currently every single female hero in LOTR:LCG is either Lore or Spirit. What better time to break some molds then by giving us a Tactics or Leadership Eowyn in Flame of the West to represent her defeat of the Witch King.

Yeah, this is a bit of a dilemma for me too. On hand I feel the set model makes sense. You know, the people who only buy the core and saga, they probably want as many options as they can get, and in that logic, an ally Éowyn would make more sense (though the unique problem thus remains just the same). On the other hand, Éowyn is indeed the heroin of the climax of the Battle on the Pelennor Fields. Tactics would fit her either way.

On a side note, my favourite solution would be Dernhelm (the name she used as a disguise riding to the battle) attachment but I doubt it will happen.

I just want some news... >_>

It is really taking so long this time. I remember Land of Shadow came almost out of the blue (at least for me).

Do we know who the fellowship hero will be already?

I'm afraid there is yet no official info on this box. I hope I wrong though, but I don't remember any intel slipping on this box like at all.

You're right.

They may be holding it off for a GenCon release.

What if we get two fellowship type heroes this time and one is Denethor and half way through he turns into an enemy? They've already done similarly with other objective-allies and Golem as well as the new pirate captains in the latest expansion.

That's the point. The examples you've mentioned are no fellowship heroes, they're objectives. To me, the thing you've described is more likely to appear as an objective than as a two-sided fellowship player card.

Do we know who the fellowship hero will be already?

Palantir of Orthanc (which can only be obtained after the last quest in Treason of Saruman) say attach to Fellowship Aragorn. So we're definitely getting Fellowship Aragorn. Theoretically we could get another fellowship hero for a "Siege of Gondor" quest, but that doesn't seem to fit with campaign mode's emphasis on keeping the same heroes.

Do we know who the fellowship hero will be already?

Palantir of Orthanc (which can only be obtained after the last quest in Treason of Saruman) say attach to Fellowship Aragorn. So we're definitely getting Fellowship Aragorn. Theoretically we could get another fellowship hero for a "Siege of Gondor" quest, but that doesn't seem to fit with campaign mode's emphasis on keeping the same heroes.

Palantir of Orthanc doesn't proof 100% it will be Aragorn, but honestly FFG wasn't very surprisiing with the Fellowship heroes (3x Frodo, 1x Aragorn) so I am sure it will be Aragorn, too.

Th reason I would say it doesn't have to be Aragorn is, that you already have a Fellowship Version of Aragorn, IF you can grap the palantir. If you Play campaign (and only then you get the palantir) you should have an aragorn Version to use the palantir with, even if in falme of the west is no other Version of him. Again very unlikely (just look at the Name of the box ), but possible. Yes, I like hypothetical Scenarios, which almost never gonna happen

What if we get two fellowship type heroes this time and one is Denethor and half way through he turns into an enemy? They've already done similarly with other objective-allies and Golem as well as the new pirate captains in the latest expansion.

I doubt something like this is going to happen and agree with John, that this idea fits best for objective allies. To add to this: Denethor isn't important enough to become a Fellowship hero, he would even ruin the Name of the sphere in my opinion if he should be in it, as he has nothing in common with the characters that are part of the Fellowship.

Do we know who the fellowship hero will be already?

Palantir of Orthanc (which can only be obtained after the last quest in Treason of Saruman) say attach to Fellowship Aragorn. So we're definitely getting Fellowship Aragorn. Theoretically we could get another fellowship hero for a "Siege of Gondor" quest, but that doesn't seem to fit with campaign mode's emphasis on keeping the same heroes.

At first, when I started reading, I thought it was going to be "Palantir of Orthanc is the next fellowship hero" joke...

Hi, I'm still brand new to the forum, and fairly new to the game. I am really hoping these last saga boxes can make a serious Gondor deck viable, which I have always wanted and never succeeded in. I suppose Tactics Imrahil could possibly pair with Beregond? But I would love to be able to play Leadership Boromir and keep some theme. Or even something to boost a Ranger deck. I suppose we'll see, but I can't wait for the day that Gondor gets itself some loving. Hopefully that day is soon.

I can't agree with you more, Tiberius.

I think, and hope (or perhaps the latter more than the former) that not only Flame of the West but also the upcoming cycle will reinforce both the Leadership Gondor but also Lore Gondor (as seen in some previews). The trap decks got a great boost with Damrod hero but if you make the deck pure Gondor it can still only fare well against very specific scenarios. Leadership Gondor is one of my favourite decks, I have had it built with only minor changes for over two years (whilst changing my other decks constantly and drastically, safe perhaps the Galadhrim for about a year), it is a decent deck now, but it still needs support to get where it should be (in my opinion), challenging the strength of Silvan and Noldor (not to mention Outlands which I do not play).

I wish for them to revisit Isengard and Doomed stuff. They barely scratched them, and abandoned them too fast