His ability was:
When the number of Damage cards assigned to you equals or exceeds your hull value, you are not destroyed until the end of the Combat phase. At the end of the Combat phase pivot to face the ship that destroyed you and make 1 attack.

What should he cost and would it be an ability considered useful enough to let him see play?

Maybe not pivot, but MAY make one barrel roll or boost option, then MAY make one attack. This attack MAY NOT be modified in any way.

I maintain he'd be marginally useful with an ept.

Yes, he would. All interceptors are good with EPTs.

I maintain he'd be marginally useful with an ept.

All the non-ept squints would.

****..

When the number of Damage cards assigned to you equals or exceeds your hull value, you are not destroyed until the end of the Combat phase. You may then perform an attack against the ship that destroyed you (even if it is outside your firing arc).?

Edit: reworded to better fit usual card verbage

I always thought he was actually at least a little useful in the days of Fat Han and Whisper...

It is still a 1-use ability that requires him to die.

For 1 less point I get a generic with 1 more PS and an EPT. I can't see how that isn't better every time.

It is still a 1-use ability that requires him to die.

For 1 less point I get a generic with 1 more PS and an EPT. I can't see how that isn't better every time.

Yup...

or what if as he dies he "deals one facedown damage card to the ship that last dealt damage to him for each damage card over the base hull amount"

so you fly him with a Hull Upgrade and AT or double Hull, get killed and deal at minimum 2 face down damage cards to the last ship that damaged him... it would need some wording, but need to make sure that if he dies from a critical effect like console fire, or running over an asteroid his effect isnt wasted.

His ability is fine, he just needs a 3 point discount.

Meh, Lt. Lorrir would still exist.

Meh, Lt. Lorrir would still exist.

Looking him up again - I had forgotten that you actually have to take stress to use Lorrir's ability. How magnificently awful.

It's a good "aturi" ability, if you want to do something to trigger stress, to use stress as something else.

Otherwise, yeah...

Meh, Lt. Lorrir would still exist.

Looking him up again - I had forgotten that you actually have to take stress to use Lorrir's ability. How magnificently awful.

i was just about to make a comparison of Lorrir to Zeta Leader, when i realized with Comms Relay on ZL they cost the same.... and is boost really worth the same as a refillable shield upgrade for 3 points? lolno.

Lorrir should have an EPT and no stress for using his ability.

Lorrir should have an EPT and no stress for using his ability.

Either of those would probably be fine. A 24 point Wired Lorrir ( 26 with AT ) would still be pretty cool.

I think people still underestimate Lorrir. I'll concede that "Zeta Leader" lowers his chance of getting any table time, but I've used Lorrir extensively and have rarely, if ever, been disappointed. 25pts with autothrusters and he's good to go. His ability is great for general positioning for upcoming turns, makes him a nightmare to lower PS pilots (unmodified shots, sure, but taking unmodified shots without taking any shots is still going to win), and you can do some hilarious blocking on higher PS pilots. The stress is obnoxious and unnecessary, but Interceptors have one of the most forgiving dials in the game for that. Still, it's positioning that Zeta simply lacks, and that's a vastly forgotten quality in this game.

And hey, autothrusters: Zeta Leader doesn't have access to those, and in some situations the thrusters are going to win out compared to Comms Relay.

But I've had pretty solid success with him, folks don't really expect the multitude of places he could potentially end up and where his arc will be facing. And with both of em' clocking in at ~25 points with upgrades, there's zero reason you couldn't fly both Lorrir and Zeta Leader in the same squad. Empire is downright rich in this sort of "budget ace" pilots.

I think people still underestimate Lorrir. I'll concede that "Zeta Leader" lowers his chance of getting any table time, but I've used Lorrir extensively and have rarely, if ever, been disappointed. 25pts with autothrusters and he's good to go. His ability is great for general positioning for upcoming turns, makes him a nightmare to lower PS pilots (unmodified shots, sure, but taking unmodified shots without taking any shots is still going to win), and you can do some hilarious blocking on higher PS pilots. The stress is obnoxious and unnecessary, but Interceptors have one of the most forgiving dials in the game for that. Still, it's positioning that Zeta simply lacks, and that's a vastly forgotten quality in this game.

And hey, autothrusters: Zeta Leader doesn't have access to those, and in some situations the thrusters are going to win out compared to Comms Relay.

But I've had pretty solid success with him, folks don't really expect the multitude of places he could potentially end up and where his arc will be facing. And with both of em' clocking in at ~25 points with upgrades, there's zero reason you couldn't fly both Lorrir and Zeta Leader in the same squad. Empire is downright rich in this sort of "budget ace" pilots.

Lorrir, zeta, echo squad=opponents brains leaking out.

I think people still underestimate Lorrir. I'll concede that "Zeta Leader" lowers his chance of getting any table time, but I've used Lorrir extensively and have rarely, if ever, been disappointed. 25pts with autothrusters and he's good to go. His ability is great for general positioning for upcoming turns, makes him a nightmare to lower PS pilots (unmodified shots, sure, but taking unmodified shots without taking any shots is still going to win), and you can do some hilarious blocking on higher PS pilots. The stress is obnoxious and unnecessary, but Interceptors have one of the most forgiving dials in the game for that. Still, it's positioning that Zeta simply lacks, and that's a vastly forgotten quality in this game.

And hey, autothrusters: Zeta Leader doesn't have access to those, and in some situations the thrusters are going to win out compared to Comms Relay.

But I've had pretty solid success with him, folks don't really expect the multitude of places he could potentially end up and where his arc will be facing. And with both of em' clocking in at ~25 points with upgrades, there's zero reason you couldn't fly both Lorrir and Zeta Leader in the same squad. Empire is downright rich in this sort of "budget ace" pilots.

Lorrir, zeta, echo squad=opponents brains leaking out.

+ Fel's wrath obvi.

Tetran Cowell + AT

Fels Wrath

Lorrir +AT

Kir Kanos + AT

100 points.

100% what does he do????

Tetran Cowell + AT

Fels Wrath

Lorrir +AT

Kir Kanos + AT

100 points.

100% what does he do????

You kill whoever you can, honestly (and it's also going to be dependent on your own list). Best I can figure is that if you have mostly high PS ships, you should mostly ignore FW until you can shoot him with no one in arc to rob the use of his ability. Kanos could potentially be hardish to kill if he's hiding non-stop behind Evade tokens, but if you have a lot of ships/multi-shot attacks, he'll probably melt if you get some guns on him. Lorrir and Cowell are a little more slippery, potentially, so if you have lower PS ships and the chance to shoot them you're probably best off taking it.

But I don't think there's a definitive answer to which you kill first. It's completely dependent on how those four are flown and what they're flying against.

Fel´s Wrath is considered over-costed and useless, but what if...

...you tried using him?

I took him in a squad I call "The 7 Deadly Sins of X-wing" to the Wisconsin Regional last year. Yes, I took Fel's Wrath to a Regional competition. Here was the squad:

Carnor Jax with Veteran Instincts and Autothrusters
Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts
Fel's Wrath
Captain Yorr with Advanced Sensors and Fleet Officer

It's all of the things you're not supposed to do in X-wing. And I went 4-2 with it. Granted, that was a different time and a different meta, but here is what I found:

people were reluctant to even shoot at Fel's Wrath because they didn't want his ability to kick in, so they shot at everything else in my squad first. What that meant was I had a 3 or 4 dice, focused attack every single round that was going unchecked. Fel's Wrath had a sort of anti-Biggs effect on my opponents, because people would think about shooting at him, but then would change their mind and take a worse shot at Yorr even though they wouldn't kill him, just to keep FW from using his ability. Or they would reposition and get out of his arc, also to keep him from using his ability. So he had a controlling effect on my opponents because they just didn't want him to use his ability.

I know I'm a lunatic, I get it, but I think he can be workable if you give him a chance. So, have you tried using him and making him work?

It is still a 1-use ability that requires him to die.

For 1 less point I get a generic with 1 more PS and an EPT. I can't see how that isn't better every time.

If a PS 9 Whisper one-shots it...

Hothie has spoken!!

Ok, I agree that Lorrir is pretty amazing as is, but that stress makes him so vulnerable to ion weapons.

How about this for "Fel's Wrath's" ability:

"When you are destroyed, destroy the ship that destroyed you."

That'll make 'em think twice about when to finish him off. Too OP?