Given a list that has the following:

Ello Asty

PTL

BB-8

AT

Red Squadron Vet

Daredevil

R2 Astromech

AT

Two questions:

1. Would a TLT Y-Wing or a HLC FCS B Wing be a better fit? I am looking at damage potential over the course of a typical game. The TLT Y Wing would shoot before the RS Vet (by virtue of it being Dutch Vander) and the B would shoot after the RS Vet.
2. Is R7-T1 worth the effort to try to fit into a list? I am thinking of trying him on either Dutch or Blue Ace/Red Squad Vet (assuming, of course, I could free up the points to do it)

I am theorycrafting and am just curious as I finalize a SC tournament list for next weekend. My original list, the one I've most practice with, is

Ello, kitted as above

Blue Ace

R2D6

Predator (want to try Outmaneuver, but I prefer EPTs that's "always on"

AT

Dutch Vander

TLT

R5 Astro (see waaaay too many Decivaders not to keep it)

Switching Blue Ace for a RS Vet frees up a point to fit the HLC FCS B wing. I am just wondering if the new list will hit harder than my original. On a joust, the answer is probably yes but I am wondering about the entire game. One big difference I see is that the TLT doesn't need a target in arc and the B wing does, so the two lists fly differently I suppose. One throws 12 red dice for a max of 8 points damage, the other throws 10 red dice for a max of 10 points damage, independent of range bonuses. That leads me to think the B wing is the way to go, but I am not certain as both the B and the Y can attack without opponents getting range bonuses for defense.

Basically, I don't trust the dice to be consistent so I try to field lists that throw a lot of reds at the target. I prefer lists that at least allow for a reroll (hence Dutch and Predator on the original list and FCS on the B).

Any insights/opinions/observations are welcome. Yes, I am aware that it's a strange list, but in my local meta, there are lots and lots of Palpmobiles, Wampa/Colzet, and Decivaders in lists I'll probably face. This is my first ever store championship (been playing since last May) and I am not sure how to best prepare other than practice. I am trying this list because it's really fun to fly...Ello is extremely squirrelly and Dutch is a fave of mine for whatever the reason. It does okay in casual settings and I know that I am not good enough to win it all. I am tired of flying acewing Imperial lists (don't judge!) and want to try something different, and this list has rewarded me with a lot of fun games.

A better question is why Daredevil on the Red Squad Vet? Blue Ace does the same thing for cheaper, no stress, and is 1 PS higher.

But to your orginal question. TLT Y-wing > HLC B-wing any day of the week, especially in your list with Vander.

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

I'm going to see a mix. Lots of Imperial players, so I will see OL and Fel, but also at the last tournament I played in there were no less than 3 Decivader builds.

A better question is why Daredevil on the Red Squad Vet? Blue Ace does the same thing for cheaper, no stress, and is 1 PS higher.

But to your orginal question. TLT Y-wing > HLC B-wing any day of the week, especially in your list with Vander.

I think I was looking at RS Vet just...because. The stress for Daredevil does make it a lame combo with Blue Ace available. Glad I posed this...if you hadn't have responded I honestly don't think I would have realized it until I started playing it. Good looking out. Thanks.

Regarding HLC vs. TLT...While I'm not married to using Vander (I just want something that will shoot before the PS 2 TLTs I think I may see), can you elaborate? It seems to me that the HLC hits harder and does more damage over the course of a match. Am I missing something?

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

I'm going to see a mix. Lots of Imperial players, so I will see OL and Fel, but also at the last tournament I played in there were no less than 3 Decivader builds.

The HLC will also average 2 hits per turn on a 0-Agility target although Focus and/or TL can improve that. My feeling is that a TLT-wing will support this list better than a B-wing. You have 2 reasonably mobile ships that can throw out 4 reds at range 1, plenty enough to threaten a Decimator while staying out of its primary arc. The TLT will threaten the Soontir Fels and Jake Farells of the world in a way the B-wing cannot. And it can still plink a couple of hits off large, low-agility ships each turn.

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

I would argue the opposite here. Hlc can possibly jam 4 dice through a token wall with fcs active while most token aces won't really care about the average 1.5 hits per tlt shot, especially with autothrusters.

Dutch probably isn't going to draw much attention in your list, but a

HLC FCS b would definitely be my first target in your list. So a good question to ask yourself is do you want a fire magnet to draw shots away from your t-70's or would you rather have people focus on the T-70's and leave Dutch to do his thing?

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

I would argue the opposite here. Hlc can possibly jam 4 dice through a token wall with fcs active while most token aces won't really care about the average 1.5 hits per tlt shot, especially with autothrusters.

This is how I see it. It's not really a contest in my mind. There's no squad in the game that sees an FCS HLC B-wing and thinks "meh, I'll kill it later". All kinds of squads do that to the TLT because they have autothrusters, good movement, or just don't care about 1-2 consistent damage each turn. The B-wing also is **** scary up close even if it does have an arc, so there's not boosting in and shrugging off 3 dice from the Y, you're worried about 4 dice, possibly with the Target Lock from FCS.

Dutch probably isn't going to draw much attention in your list, but a

HLC FCS b would definitely be my first target in your list. So a good question to ask yourself is do you want a fire magnet to draw shots away from your t-70's or would you rather have people focus on the T-70's and leave Dutch to do his thing?

Yep. This is the question, I think.

So far, Dutch has been largely ignored. Most games I've played the target was...Blue Ace, of all things. I'm playing against all levels of competition, and it has been surprising how often the first ship shot at is Blue Ace. I think Ello is a much more dangerous ship.

Dutch's ability is extremely useful in this build for me because of how often I use Blue Ace's ability to turn when I boost.

I am finding it's not an easy decision! And don't even get me started on astromech choice for Blue Ace and Dutch. Would love a regen droid, but neither is a good fit for Dutch IMHO.

What do you expect to see? Hlc will be more damage vs low agility ships while tlt will be more consistent damage if you see a lot of tokened up high agility ships.

I would argue the opposite here. Hlc can possibly jam 4 dice through a token wall with fcs active while most token aces won't really care about the average 1.5 hits per tlt shot, especially with autothrusters.

This is how I see it. It's not really a contest in my mind. There's no squad in the game that sees an FCS HLC B-wing and thinks "meh, I'll kill it later". All kinds of squads do that to the TLT because they have autothrusters, good movement, or just don't care about 1-2 consistent damage each turn. The B-wing also is **** scary up close even if it does have an arc, so there's not boosting in and shrugging off 3 dice from the Y, you're worried about 4 dice, possibly with the Target Lock from FCS.

I personally would make the B Wing the first target as well if it were up to me. That could make things tough for me to keep targets in arc of an opponent who wants to focus the B down early. I am not that great a pilot that I can keep the B Wing alive for long under those conditions. Still, I do think the B Wing would be the guy to stop OL (unless he's got the TL on the B), finish off a tokenless Vader or Fel, and deal extra damage to a Decimator (all of which I am expecting to see and am trying to craft a list against those types of ships).

I fly this list by focusing down a single target as much as possible.

As an aside, I am also a huge Defender fan and avidly await the release of Imperial Vets. I enjoy reading your Defender posts.

The way I see it, that B is about a range band back from the two T70s. They're both pretty resistant to long range fire, unlike the B. The B might be out of range the first exchange, although it's not ideal. You want it to hang back, though, after that. From that point, they can go after an undamaged B which is an easy target and let T70s on their tail, or they can dogfight the T70s and let a B pound on them with the HLC from range. This situation obviously changes depending on enemy squad, but I think the general approach you want to take is to have the B-wing a little bit back, using its huge Range 3 arc as much as possible.

Edit: and thanks for the kind words!

The way I see it, that B is about a range band back from the two T70s. They're both pretty resistant to long range fire, unlike the B. The B might be out of range the first exchange, although it's not ideal. You want it to hang back, though, after that. From that point, they can go after an undamaged B which is an easy target and let T70s on their tail, or they can dogfight the T70s and let a B pound on them with the HLC from range. This situation obviously changes depending on enemy squad, but I think the general approach you want to take is to have the B-wing a little bit back, using its huge Range 3 arc as much as possible.

Edit: and thanks for the kind words!

I am also toying with Ello, kitted as from the OP, with 2 HLC FCS B-Wings. That may prove to be an even tougher nut to crack. My main concern is how to achieve the slow roll approach you are recommending. I agree that slow-rolling is the way to go with the B Wing(s). I've also looked at the following list:

Ello, as above

BWing, as above

TLT Y wing

That leaves 3 points for a hull upgrade on the B or even the E2 Mod with Jan Ors or Dash Rendar.

Too many options...

Given a list that has the following:

Ello Asty

PTL

BB-8

AT

Red Squadron Vet

Daredevil

R2 Astromech

AT

If you are set on the others then I'd drop Red for Tycho so, run

Ello

BB8

PTL

AT

then depending on B or Y

Tycho/Y

A-wing Test

PTL

DD

EI

Prockets

Goldie

TLT

R5 or 1 pt bid

Tycho/B

A-wing test

VI

EI

DD

Refit

Blue Squad

HLC

FCS

1 pt bid